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Posted: 9/27/2017 12:01:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Curious. Buying a plug for my IH is on the to do list.
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Posted: 9/27/2017 12:28:35 PM EDT
[#2]
The gizmo is well thought of by some, but for me it is m2 ball and equivalent reloads. Heck you can buy a Lee loader one at a time reloading kit for like $30. I would suggest pulling the bullets from some m2 ball and replace with hunting bullets and you are all set. What was referred to as “Mexican match”
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Posted: 9/27/2017 3:21:14 PM EDT
[#3]
It looks similar to the Garandgear plug.
However, under high speed film, the adjustable gas plug is far superior to the Garand Gear plug. Many loads will still cause the op rod to slam into the receiver. Adjustable gas plug negates this. Plus, you can keep your brass from flinging too far away and causing extractor knicks. Reloading gas gun brass is a pain as gas guns are violent to brass. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 3:36:15 PM EDT
[#4]
Pretty much all 150grn hunting ammo is fine for the garand..no need to go buy gimmicks
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Posted: 9/27/2017 6:32:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much all 150grn hunting ammo is fine for the garand..no need to go buy gimmicks I have some winchester 150gr soft point ammo that is leaving the barrel at 2,900+ fps. Waaay too much pressure. At slow speed the op rod is hitting the receiver pretty hard. If you don't have an adjustable gas block, pull the bullets and reduce the charges 10% by taking out 10% of the powder, neck size then reload the bullet. Save the 2-4 grains of powder and after 20 or so rounds you can use the extra powder for a new cartridge. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 9:09:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not true at all. I have some winchester 150gr soft point ammo that is leaving the barrel at 2,900+ fps. Waaay too much pressure. At slow speed the op rod is hitting the receiver pretty hard. If you don't have an adjustable gas block, pull the bullets and reduce the charges 10% by taking out 10% of the powder, neck size then reload the bullet. Save the 2-4 grains of powder and after 20 or so rounds you can use the extra powder for a new cartridge. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 11:00:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If in doubt look at garandgears page and pick any of the 150grn ammo they tested as it's all pretty much garand safe... So 25% were over pressure......................... |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 11:01:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks similar to the Garandgear plug. However, under high speed film, the adjustable gas plug is far superior to the Garand Gear plug. Many loads will still cause the op rod to slam into the receiver. Adjustable gas plug negates this. Plus, you can keep your brass from flinging too far away and causing extractor knicks. Reloading gas gun brass is a pain as gas guns are violent to brass. Could you link that one..................... THANKS! |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 12:43:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you find high-speed film of the various plugs in use? Could you link that one..................... THANKS! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It looks similar to the Garandgear plug. However, under high speed film, the adjustable gas plug is far superior to the Garand Gear plug. Many loads will still cause the op rod to slam into the receiver. Adjustable gas plug negates this. Plus, you can keep your brass from flinging too far away and causing extractor knicks. Reloading gas gun brass is a pain as gas guns are violent to brass. Could you link that one..................... THANKS! Garandgear v Schuster adjustable |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 12:58:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If in doubt look at garandgears page and pick any of the 150grn ammo they tested as it's all pretty much garand safe... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not true at all. I have some winchester 150gr soft point ammo that is leaving the barrel at 2,900+ fps. Waaay too much pressure. At slow speed the op rod is hitting the receiver pretty hard. If you don't have an adjustable gas block, pull the bullets and reduce the charges 10% by taking out 10% of the powder, neck size then reload the bullet. Save the 2-4 grains of powder and after 20 or so rounds you can use the extra powder for a new cartridge. It's your gun. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 10:49:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Metal stretches. It will not shrink back down to original spec. You shoot hot loads in your garand it will stretch the op rod. You might say you're shot hot loads for years and never had a problem and you might be right but the next 100 counds could stretch the rod just enough to now be out of spec.you can't undo what's already been done. That op rod is slowly stretching and flexing and each round past m2 ball slowly inches it closer to failure. It's your gun. You do realize the garand was designed around M1 Ball... ~174grn @2700fps..... how about M2 AP...~163grn at 2700fps.. or lets not forget M72 Match..also designed specifically for the Garand.... or how about Federal Gold Medal Match..~168grn SMKs... So again..the internet "myths" of M2 Ball ONLY are of course...."over blown". You are right it's my gun....and until the last few years this wasn't a big issue until the "ported type" plugs popped up and everyone started hyping "M2 BALL ONLY!!!!" without any actual knowledge of the subject. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 3:01:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now we are "stretching" the oprod if we shoot anything other than M2 Ball?? You do realize the garand was designed around M1 Ball... ~174grn @2700fps..... how about M2 AP...~163grn at 2700fps.. or lets not forget M72 Match..also designed specifically for the Garand.... or how about Federal Gold Medal Match..~168grn SMKs... So again..the internet "myths" of M2 Ball ONLY are of course...."over blown". You are right it's my gun....and until the last few years this wasn't a big issue until the "ported type" plugs popped up and everyone started hyping "M2 BALL ONLY!!!!" without any actual knowledge of the subject. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Metal stretches. It will not shrink back down to original spec. You shoot hot loads in your garand it will stretch the op rod. You might say you're shot hot loads for years and never had a problem and you might be right but the next 100 counds could stretch the rod just enough to now be out of spec.you can't undo what's already been done. That op rod is slowly stretching and flexing and each round past m2 ball slowly inches it closer to failure. It's your gun. You do realize the garand was designed around M1 Ball... ~174grn @2700fps..... how about M2 AP...~163grn at 2700fps.. or lets not forget M72 Match..also designed specifically for the Garand.... or how about Federal Gold Medal Match..~168grn SMKs... So again..the internet "myths" of M2 Ball ONLY are of course...."over blown". You are right it's my gun....and until the last few years this wasn't a big issue until the "ported type" plugs popped up and everyone started hyping "M2 BALL ONLY!!!!" without any actual knowledge of the subject. So many Garands and parts over the years nobody noticed why it malfunctioned, they just replaced the out of spec part and moved on. Parts are more expensive now and becoming more scarce, receivers are cracking. What causes fractures in steel? Stress. What’s putting stress on the steel? So yes, it does matter. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 4:18:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pressure stretches steel. Higher the pressure, greater the stretch. Military was not too concerned with longevity with Garands as they served their purpose in WWII and Korea. Present day consumers cannot afford that luxury. So many Garands and parts over the years nobody noticed why it malfunctioned, they just replaced the out of spec part and moved on. Parts are more expensive now and becoming more scarce, receivers are cracking. What causes fractures in steel? Stress. What’s putting stress on the steel? So yes, it does matter. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 4:33:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Receivers were cracking while IN SERVICE (while using M2 ball...).... so this is not a new phenomenon... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pressure stretches steel. Higher the pressure, greater the stretch. Military was not too concerned with longevity with Garands as they served their purpose in WWII and Korea. Present day consumers cannot afford that luxury. So many Garands and parts over the years nobody noticed why it malfunctioned, they just replaced the out of spec part and moved on. Parts are more expensive now and becoming more scarce, receivers are cracking. What causes fractures in steel? Stress. What’s putting stress on the steel? So yes, it does matter. Hence the need for an adjustable gas plug to maximize the life of the garand parts. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 7:54:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if the rounds being fired have higher pressure will the failure rate be accelerated? Hence the need for an adjustable gas plug to maximize the life of the garand parts. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 10:36:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually changing your oprod spring will do more good. Just shoot the ammo that they say to...from 150 up to 220 grn... Avoid the few that have high port pressure...this isn't that difficult to understand... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And if the rounds being fired have higher pressure will the failure rate be accelerated? Hence the need for an adjustable gas plug to maximize the life of the garand parts. The hot gasses is the cause. Dissipating some of the gasses will put less forces on the op rod. But go ahead and shoot what you like. It’s your gun. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 10:46:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A new op rod spring would not do much. You should high speed film it. It would at most delay the op rod to similar speeds as the Garand Gear plug. The hot gasses is the cause. Dissipating some of the gasses will put less forces on the op rod. But go ahead and shoot what you like. It’s your gun. And actually a new in spec spring does more than a worn out spring....like give proper resistance and help prevent the bolt from hitting the rear of the receiver. "hot gasses"...lol |
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Posted: 9/29/2017 8:25:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"hot gasses" is the cause?? Not really...you should study up on this some more before you come try and preach... And actually a new in spec spring does more than a worn out spring....like give proper resistance and help prevent the bolt from hitting the rear of the receiver. "hot gasses"...lol You should measure how much resistance the op rod spring resists and then measure the energy from the burning propellant. I bet you the 5% op rod spring you gain from a new spring is still going to not stop a hot 30-06 load. It’s still going to slam into the receiver. A adjustable gas plug will dissipate this pressure at its source before it hits the op rod. Greater than any spring. |
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Posted: 9/29/2017 8:40:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Cool.. just use any of commercial ammo that's equivalent or lower pressure than m2 ball... plenty of it available...
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Posted: 9/29/2017 10:25:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Surplus M2 Ball chronographed at 2600 fps from my Garand. 150 grain flat based bullet.
Maximum powder charge of 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 will drive a 173 grain M72 bullet at 2640 fps. Port pressure is the problem, not chamber pressure. Most commercial .30-06 ammo is designed for use in bolt action hunting rifles. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 and other powders with similar burn rates are usually used. This is true even with lighter bullets. There is no way for the consumer to know which powder they use. Unless the ammo is marked M2 or "Garand safe" you're simply rolling the dice. I own a custom .308 Garand that is over gassed to the point of being worrisome. I purchased the Shuster's adjustable gas plug to tame it. This product works as advertised and I encourage everyone to consider it as a viable option. Those who remain unconcerned and shoot whatever they want through their Garands don't worry, the parts that don't break have high resale value. |
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Posted: 9/29/2017 11:14:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surplus M2 Ball chronographed at 2600 fps from my Garand. 150 grain flat based bullet. Maximum powder charge of 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 will drive a 173 grain M72 bullet at 2640 fps. Port pressure is the problem, not chamber pressure. Most commercial .30-06 ammo is designed for use in bolt action hunting rifles. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 and other powders with similar burn rates are usually used. This is true even with lighter bullets. There is no way for the consumer to know which powder they use. Unless the ammo is marked M2 or "Garand safe" you're simply rolling the dice. I own a custom .308 Garand that is over gassed to the point of being worrisome. I purchased the Shuster's adjustable gas plug to tame it. This product works as advertised and I encourage everyone to consider it as a viable option. Those who remain unconcerned and shoot whatever they want through their Garands don't worry, the parts that don't break have high resale value. I wonder what they use? |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 1:35:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surplus M2 Ball chronographed at 2600 fps from my Garand. 150 grain flat based bullet. Maximum powder charge of 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 will drive a 173 grain M72 bullet at 2640 fps. Port pressure is the problem, not chamber pressure. Most commercial .30-06 ammo is designed for use in bolt action hunting rifles. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 and other powders with similar burn rates are usually used. This is true even with lighter bullets. There is no way for the consumer to know which powder they use. Unless the ammo is marked M2 or "Garand safe" you're simply rolling the dice. I own a custom .308 Garand that is over gassed to the point of being worrisome. I purchased the Shuster's adjustable gas plug to tame it. This product works as advertised and I encourage everyone to consider it as a viable option. Those who remain unconcerned and shoot whatever they want through their Garands don't worry, the parts that don't break have high resale value. Garandgear list on their website which ammo they have tested and what they consider safe...no reason to guess.. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 4:02:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your M2 ball is 200fps slow.. Garandgear list on their website which ammo they have tested and what they consider safe...no reason to guess.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Surplus M2 Ball chronographed at 2600 fps from my Garand. 150 grain flat based bullet. Maximum powder charge of 46.0 grains of IMR-4895 will drive a 173 grain M72 bullet at 2640 fps. Port pressure is the problem, not chamber pressure. Most commercial .30-06 ammo is designed for use in bolt action hunting rifles. IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 and other powders with similar burn rates are usually used. This is true even with lighter bullets. There is no way for the consumer to know which powder they use. Unless the ammo is marked M2 or "Garand safe" you're simply rolling the dice. I own a custom .308 Garand that is over gassed to the point of being worrisome. I purchased the Shuster's adjustable gas plug to tame it. This product works as advertised and I encourage everyone to consider it as a viable option. Those who remain unconcerned and shoot whatever they want through their Garands don't worry, the parts that don't break have high resale value. Garandgear list on their website which ammo they have tested and what they consider safe...no reason to guess.. The video does not match Garandgear’s claim. Watch the slow motion footage. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 9:20:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your M2 ball is 200fps slow.. Garandgear list on their website which ammo they have tested and what they consider safe...no reason to guess.. Close to 20 years old when tested. Most of the various M80 ball ammo I chronographed was 50 to 75 fps slower than 2800 it was "supposed to" run. That included LC, TW, IVI (Canadian) and WCC. All were manufactured to gov. specs, there is obviously some leeway allowed. Barrel length is shorter (22") in an M1-A, but that's not the case with a Garand. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 3:52:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the point I was trying to make. Published velocity and actual velocity can be two different things. The M2 Ball I tested was straight from the US Army, dated LC 67 and sold to our club through the Civilian Marksmanship Program in the 1980's. Close to 20 years old when tested. Most of the various M80 ball ammo I chronographed was 50 to 75 fps slower than 2800 it was "supposed to" run. That included LC, TW, IVI (Canadian) and WCC. All were manufactured to gov. specs, there is obviously some leeway allowed. Barrel length is shorter (22") in an M1-A, but that's not the case with a Garand. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 3:53:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jeremy did you watch the video I linked a few posts up? The video does not match Garandgear’s claim. Watch the slow motion footage. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 8:04:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you see the port pressure gage test results? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Jeremy did you watch the video I linked a few posts up? The video does not match Garandgear’s claim. Watch the slow motion footage. The video I listed shows in high speed that even with the “safe” port pressure loads listed from Garandgear the op rod still slams back just as hard as a USGI plug. The only way to slow down the op rod is to actually push some of the hot gasses out via Schuster adjustable plug. The Garandgear plug barely made any difference. It’s only good point is it will slightly slow down m2 spec ammo, anything above it and it does not help. The high speed film does not match garandgears plug claim. I’d trust an independent source than data from the person selling you the product. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 9:16:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. The video I listed shows in high speed that even with the “safe” port pressure loads listed from Garandgear the op rod still slams back just as hard as a USGI plug. The only way to slow down the op rod is to actually push some of the hot gasses out via Schuster adjustable plug. The Garandgear plug barely made any difference. It’s only good point is it will slightly slow down m2 spec ammo, anything above it and it does not help. The high speed film does not match garandgears plug claim. I’d trust an independent source than data from the person selling you the product. But again...no big deal. If you want an adjustable plug get one...if you don't..then don't...it hasn't been a big deal until the last few years...so I'm not really losing any sleep over it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2017 9:36:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Back on topic has anyone had an early review online of this new plug
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Posted: 10/1/2017 12:09:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back on topic has anyone had an early review online of this new plug |
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