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Posted: 7/6/2010 3:38:05 PM EDT
I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Springfield socom 16. Looks like a very nice rifle. but from what I've read from time to time from users of this website is that there not the same as true military rifles. That the receivers are forged and that makes them junk.

What do you guys think? are they not as good as the ones in service and why?

Sorry if this has been beat to death.
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 3:53:30 PM EDT
A "Service M14" will cost you about 20-25 grand, a M1A won't. I believe the GI forged receivers are good for 450K rounds, the M1A for around 250K rounds. Thats a lot of barrels to burn out.

A new forged receiver will cost you a sizable chunk of money. If it's worth it to you, go for it.

Or, you can find a Chinese used one, they do have forged receivers but there are some differences with some of the threads and the stocks are pretty bleh.
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 3:55:54 PM EDT
The main reason a M1A is not the same as a USG M14 is that the M14 is a fully automatic weapon and the M1A is not. Once you get that main difference down, the M14 uses a forged receiver and the M1A uses a cast receiver. I can not recall anyone reporting that they have ever worn out a cast M1A receiver in spite of changing barrels that were worn out several times.
The M1A was designed to give civilian shooters an affordable, legal and close copy of the M14 rifle. The benefit is that it is very close to the point that USGI parts fit and work on the new made receiver without modification.

To try and put a M1A and a military M14 into the same plate is doing a dis-service to both. The M14 was made using the best materials and techniques of the time and the US Govt paid for the making of them. The M1A is made safe and sound but made so that it can be affordable to many people in large numbers.
That said, you will be VERY hard pressed to shoot a Springfield Armory Inc. M1A rifle until it goes tits up and can not be rebuilt and made new again. We are talking way lots of rounds.
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 2:43:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
The M1A is made safe and sound but made so that it can be affordable to many people in large numbers.


You said what?

I agree with the rest though.
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 3:00:16 PM EDT
Don't buy into the hype. The M1A receivers are just fine. Basically, you've got people who like to spend extra money to say they have the best putting down inexpensive models so they can feel good about spending the extra money. I don't know, maybe I'm missing out by not buying a Fulton Armory or SEI, but I've had my M1A for about 5 years. No issues as far as the reciever is concerned.
Link Posted: 7/7/2010 3:00:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2010 3:00:49 PM EDT by agillig]
D/T

Link Posted: 7/7/2010 3:28:18 PM EDT
I still have the first M1-A i bought in 1982. Its on its third barrel. The only other things i have replaced are the op rod spring, bolt roller and a firing pin. Not bad for a 28 year old CAST receiver.
Link Posted: 7/8/2010 8:23:29 AM EDT
I'm still shooting a SAInc M1A that I bought used in 1975 (#003XXX) which has gone through several barrels, one Winchester bolt (right lug broke off), four GI extractors, one GI firing pin, one GI ejector spring (spring separated into two pieces but continued to function), one NM windage knob (old design with threaded sleeve pressed in), one GI hammer (one hook broke off), one GI reamed flash suppressor (cracked between the tines at the front) and several bedding jobs. Before retiring, reloading to me was breaking the seals on two crates a year (2X2X460 rounds) and shooting. Now, reloading is more work.
Oh, yes. This is a cast receiver which has never been a problem.
Link Posted: 7/8/2010 8:38:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyOrdGuy:
I'm still shooting a SAInc M1A that I bought used in 1975 (#003XXX) which has gone through several barrels, one Winchester bolt (right lug broke off), four GI extractors, one GI firing pin, one GI ejector spring (spring separated into two pieces but continued to function), one NM windage knob (old design with threaded sleeve pressed in), one GI hammer (one hook broke off), one GI reamed flash suppressor (cracked between the tines at the front) and several bedding jobs. Before retiring, reloading to me was breaking the seals on two crates a year (2X2X460 rounds) and shooting. Now, reloading is more work.
Oh, yes. This is a cast receiver which has never been a problem.


Impossible! I have it on good information that GI parts are perfect and last forever. Only inferior commercial parts break!
Link Posted: 7/8/2010 8:54:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By agillig:

Originally Posted By ArmyOrdGuy:
I'm still shooting a SAInc M1A that I bought used in 1975 (#003XXX) which has gone through several barrels, one Winchester bolt (right lug broke off), four GI extractors, one GI firing pin, one GI ejector spring (spring separated into two pieces but continued to function), one NM windage knob (old design with threaded sleeve pressed in), one GI hammer (one hook broke off), one GI reamed flash suppressor (cracked between the tines at the front) and several bedding jobs. Before retiring, reloading to me was breaking the seals on two crates a year (2X2X460 rounds) and shooting. Now, reloading is more work.
Oh, yes. This is a cast receiver which has never been a problem.


Impossible! I have it on good information that GI parts are perfect and last forever. Only inferior commercial parts break!


I know you're being sarcastic. My experience has been that almost anything can break (except my CAST receiver, so far). I always have spare extractors and extractor detent springs on hand after the second one snapped.
Link Posted: 8/26/2010 6:34:36 PM EDT
Every Springfield M-1A ever sold has been built on a cast receiver. Need I say anything more?

Originally Posted By wtwining:
I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Springfield socom 16. Looks like a very nice rifle. but from what I've read from time to time from users of this website is that there not the same as true military rifles. That the receivers are forged and that makes them junk.

What do you guys think? are they not as good as the ones in service and why?

Sorry if this has been beat to death.


Link Posted: 8/26/2010 9:55:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
Every Springfield M-1A ever sold has been built on a cast receiver. Need I say anything more?

Originally Posted By wtwining:
I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Springfield socom 16. Looks like a very nice rifle. but from what I've read from time to time from users of this website is that there not the same as true military rifles. That the receivers are forged and that makes them junk.

What do you guys think? are they not as good as the ones in service and why?

Sorry if this has been beat to death.



Ever hear of a cast reciever wearing out?

Link Posted: 8/27/2010 12:18:34 PM EDT
Metallurgically, the cast receivers are fine. When done right, sometimes casting is better than forged (see Browning High Power).

The issue with SA's cast receivers is that they are not entirely USGI-spec dimensionally. For the most part, this is fine. The only issues you will run into is that some accessories, made by certain manufacturers to fit USGI M14 receivers, won't really fit on a cast SA M1A receiver. Most notable are the receiver mounted rails for optics. SEI makes rails tailored for the M1A... ARMS does not...
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 1:03:10 PM EDT
Have had my SAI M1A for several years and 0 issues
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 8:19:13 PM EDT
thanks for the info guys.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 2:19:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 2:19:55 PM EDT by WindRiver78]
Originally Posted By wtwining:
thanks for the info guys.


I just can't believe no one has tried to talk you out of the SOCOM yet in favor of a scout or standard.

I've had mine for about 3 years now and have had zero issues with the gas system everyone was so concerned over.
I'm sure no one would believe me, but I have fed probably 2500 rounds of all kinds of ammo through it including surplus, and have not had ONE failure that I can recall.

Link Posted: 9/3/2010 4:55:53 AM EDT
Get the SOCOM. I got mine in 05 and have had no problems at all. Only mods to it are the SEI GLFS kit and a VLTOR Mod stock. Also got rid of the scout mount and picked up a handguard from Fulton. Thinking about the Ultimak and an Aimpoint but I really like the irons on this rifle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 5:15:23 AM EDT
Biggest difference I have seen between cast and forged receivers is that a forged receiver will ring when the action cycles.
A cast receivers just goes clunk, clunk.

You probably have to experience it to understand what I am talking about.

Through holes, threaded areas, rails and slots will wear at a faster rate on a cast receiver but like another poster stated, 250,000 rounds is one helluva a lot or rebarrelling jobs and more than most M1A owners will put through their rifle in a lifetime of shooting.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 8:24:05 AM EDT
I've got five Springfields (one Socom) and one Polytech. No issues ever with the Springers or the Poly. Buy with confidence.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:18:06 PM EDT
I want an M1A Scout/squad but they are just out of my reach affordability wise when I have to facotr in all new mags, a whole new caliber to stock etc
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:33:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:33:55 PM EDT by Blown46]
My SOCOM is way more fun to shoot than the AR imo - love it. It's the cast trigger/hammers that break sometimes with these newer rifles, happened to mine so I replaced with USGI forged parts and got a nice trigger job too. They are a lot of fun!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:41:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
A "Service M14" will cost you about 20-25 grand, a M1A won't. I believe the GI forged receivers are good for 450K rounds, the M1A for around 250K 450k rounds. Thats a lot of barrels to burn out.

Fixed
Per Larry Collenson who is production manager at SAI, their M1A receiver will withstand 450k rounds, the same as a USGI receiver due to the heat treatment used.



Originally Posted By Milo5:
Through holes, threaded areas, rails and slots will wear at a faster rate on a cast receiver Through holes, threaded areas, rails and slots will wear at the same rate on a cast receiver, but like another poster stated, 250,000 rounds is one helluva a lot or rebarrelling jobs and more than most M1A owners will put through their rifle in a lifetime of shooting.

Fixed
The only real differences between forged & cast is the process in making the blank piece that is then final machined.
Machining cost will effect the final price & each company has their own way of doing that.
All other things are equal if the heat treat is done correctly on both methods.
All forged & cast receivers need some level of fitting, some more than others as I've never seen a receiver that was good as is.

The only receiver failure I've ever seen was an Armscorp & the true reason was never known.



Warbird
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