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Posted: 3/11/2006 10:09:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 1:24:29 PM EDT by Firefoxammo]
Purchased my Springfield M1A about 2 weeks ago. Went to the range today with 3 types of ammo. 1st is Wolf no issues. 2nd is American Eagle No issues. 3rd is South African, fires 2 rounds then jams.This goes on and on. Half the case is in the mag about 1/4 in the chamber. Any Thoughts?? Like to mention that the rifle was verly clean. Could the problem be with the fact that the chamber was bone dry. I took it apart and wiped all the packing grease off before firing it?? But the othr ammo worked fine.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:04:08 AM EDT
I was shooting about a week ago with some SA. Had a FTE and after closer examination I noticed it tore the casing a little bit where the extractor bites down. I was able to close the bolt down and pogo the rifle to get the spent casing out.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:38:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 12:42:17 PM EDT by fxntime]
After about 500 rounds of SA I've never had a problem. Sounds like a possible mag problem to me if most of the round is still in the mag.

Can you tunk the op rod handle and will the cartridge chamber? Or, do you have to drop the mag?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:40:36 PM EDT
try cleaning your chamber with a ratcheting M14 chamber brush.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:29:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 1:30:25 PM EDT by Firefoxammo]
After yanking the op rod hadle back , it will chamber, then two rounds later same thing. Bullet is Always on the left side of the magazine. Im scratching my head over this. Could it possibly be the magazine? WTF OVER


Originally Posted By fxntime:
After about 500 rounds of SA I've never had a problem. Sounds like a possible mag problem to me if most of the round is still in the mag.

Can you tunk the op rod handle and will the cartridge chamber? Or, do you have to drop the mag?

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:12:38 PM EDT
What lot number is on your ammo?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:20:06 PM EDT
Sounds like either a mag problem or a feed lip problem.
SA is good ammo, very consistant as far as dimension and such.

If it is left side jamming I doubt it is the ammo.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:50:29 PM EDT
I agree... SAs been shooting great... See if the lips on the mags are bent... look in chamber to see if any build up can be seen. Make sure your gas system is working well.
Anthony
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:07:29 PM EDT
Is your mag USGI or aftermarket? I bet it is a mag problem.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:17:57 PM EDT
I have the same thing happen to me. Always the last round on the left side and only from 1 mag. Yes, it is an aftermarket mag. None of my other mags ever give me any trouble, T57s.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:24:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:49:00 PM EDT
Tried that and it is not opening by just tipping it. Do you think this is a problem or because it is new?



Originally Posted By Chuck:
The M14 and it's M1A copy needs grease on several specific parts and either CLP or LSA on the rest. Friction slowing the operating rod and bolt is a common cause of stoppages. Trying several magazines will rule them out. I shoot SA literally exclusively without difficulty.

Find the M14 operators manual and clean/lube per the order.

For grins remove the operating spring. With just the bolt and oprod in the barrel-receiver group the bolt should open and close smoothly merely by tipping the group back and forth about 45° and the weight of the oprod. Click-click. Click-click. If this doesn't work you need to sort out the reason.

But the first suspect is always cleaning and lubrication.

-- Chuck

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:17:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:
Tried that and it is not opening by just tipping it. Do you think this is a problem or because it is new?



It might fix itself as it wears, but I would work to get it fixed. Either the oprod or the bolt is binding somewhere. While you're looking, make sure the oprod isn't rubbing the stock (relieve as necessary).

The oprod will normally kiss the bottom of the barrel, but it shouldn't drag there. It will also rub a little just under the windage knob--again, not enough to bind up. Check that the tip of the oprod is more or less centered on the gas system and that the oprod guide isn't shifting around. Could be that the oprod needs to be bent a little (a job for a specialist).

Could also be that the bolt is dragging somewhere.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:31:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Is your mag USGI or aftermarket? I bet it is a mag problem.



I bought 6 new USGI mags from Armalite last December. 5 of them have been flawless, and another will not run right for anything. I've checked it against the working mags on multiple occasions and cannot see any difference. And now the rear part of the follower has broken off. It was cracked to start with. So maybe it's a follower problem or something. Does anyone know where I could buy just a follower for this mag?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 11:45:20 AM EDT
I purchased a brand new M1A Scout and shot it with SA ammunition today and it malfunctioned as well. It was always the round on the left hand side and it'd malfunction every other round - did that for two magazines. The rifle was clean and I was using USGI magazines. It's kind of wierd. I'm waiting to get ammuntion of another manufacture to see what happens with it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:04:52 PM EDT
This is exactly what was happening with me. Wolf, and A/E was fine. Every other round on the left side. At least I am not alone. Wonder if it is because the rifles are new?


Originally Posted By JMH:
I purchased a brand new M1A Scout and shot it with SA ammunition today and it malfunctioned as well. It was always the round on the left hand side and it'd malfunction every other round - did that for two magazines. The rifle was clean and I was using USGI magazines. It's kind of wierd. I'm waiting to get ammuntion of another manufacture to see what happens with it.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:18:13 PM EDT
Maybe we're "getting what we paid for" with the ammunition. That phrase especially holds true in firearms and ammunition.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:22:38 PM EDT
I would consider that thought, but lots of folks shoot the SA in their M1A with no issues. Wish someone with knowledge on this could enlighten me. I am going to oil the shit out of the rifle before I make any other comments on this issue.


Originally Posted By JMH:
Maybe we're "getting what we paid for" with the ammunition. That phrase especially holds true in firearms and ammunition.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:29:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 3:33:18 PM EDT by fxntime]
There is a CRAPLOAD of mags being sold that are "USGI" in name only. I've seen plenty of them myself to include "new" ones in a white bag. They are NOT USGI, are not in spec in many cases, and on a par with those "hi Quality" USA brand AR mags.

I've seen pics where the bullet hits the front of the mag "tit" sticking up and either jams there or rides over the top but too high.

A the last show I was at, at least 50% of the M14 mags were out and out fakes being passed off as USGI. Even a cursory glance at the welds on the spline told me they were not.

BTW, look at the jam before you touch anything, is it stuck right at the bullet/case mouth? If so file the mag tit down a bit. SA ammo cases are pretty thick and might snag where thin cases won't. That is not the ammos fault BTW.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:50:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
BTW, look at the jam before you touch anything, is it stuck right at the bullet/case mouth? If so file the mag tit down a bit. SA ammo cases are pretty thick and might snag where thin cases won't. That is not the ammos fault BTW.




What part of the Mag is the tit? Anyone got a picture? I think this could be the issue.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:14:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 4:17:36 PM EDT by fxntime]

Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
BTW, look at the jam before you touch anything, is it stuck right at the bullet/case mouth? If so file the mag tit down a bit. SA ammo cases are pretty thick and might snag where thin cases won't. That is not the ammos fault BTW.




What part of the Mag is the tit? Anyone got a picture? I think this could be the issue.



Look at the mag front directly in front of the left side bullet, you'll notice a little lip or a wide U. Push a round out of the mag with your fingers just like it would go into the chamber if it was inserted in the rifle. Does the round hit the top of the U instead of pushing right out of the mag? [even a little bit?] The front of a USGI mag will look like a wide U. I've seen aftermarket and fakes that sit a bit high in the front and the round will hit. Either that or the U is not deep enough.

Count the spot welds on the front of the mag on the spline. Do they look very even and consistant or are they uneven?

I've actually seen mags with a "tit" where the U goes up to the side of the mag. It is from poor metalwork.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:14:22 PM EDT
I appreciate the information, but the mag seems to be functioning fine. The stock 10 rnd mag that the rifle came with is also doing the same thing. If the magazine is in the rifle, the left round seems to be stopping on the lower portion of chamber as it feeds. Instead of feeding into the chamber. as a result the round is getting stuck with the bolt about 1/2 closed. Any other ideas?


Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
BTW, look at the jam before you touch anything, is it stuck right at the bullet/case mouth? If so file the mag tit down a bit. SA ammo cases are pretty thick and might snag where thin cases won't. That is not the ammos fault BTW.




What part of the Mag is the tit? Anyone got a picture? I think this could be the issue.



Look at the mag front directly in front of the left side bullet, you'll notice a little lip or a wide U. Push a round out of the mag with your fingers just like it would go into the chamber if it was inserted in the rifle. Does the round hit the top of the U instead of pushing right out of the mag? [even a little bit?] The front of a USGI mag will look like a wide U. I've seen aftermarket and fakes that sit a bit high in the front and the round will hit. Either that or the U is not deep enough.

Count the spot welds on the front of the mag on the spline. Do they look very even and consistant or are they uneven?

I've actually seen mags with a "tit" where the U goes up to the side of the mag. It is from poor metalwork.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:56:28 PM EDT
I agree about the mags that firefox mentioned. I had some Spld Armory 10 rounders whose followers couldn't even take a round ! There was "lip" of extra metal at the back end of the follower that would hang up on the mag body itself!

Then, there was the M-1A Scout I once had, with a commercial Geneseo IL marked bbl that couldn't feed a round from the left side because the left feed ramp was never machined on the completed barrel!

Needless to say, SA made good on everything but it was annoying!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:33:34 AM EDT
I called SA today. Spoke with a customer service rep. Informed her of my problem. A tech then came on and said to put about another 200-300 rounds ball ammo through her. He said this will smooth the feed ramps down and this is common with a new rifle. He said if the problem persists after that , then send it to them and they will polish the ramps. Anyone ever heard of this?



Originally Posted By steveinct:
I agree about the mags that firefox mentioned. I had some Spld Armory 10 rounders whose followers couldn't even take a round ! There was "lip" of extra metal at the back end of the follower that would hang up on the mag body itself!

Then, there was the M-1A Scout I once had, with a commercial Geneseo IL marked bbl that couldn't feed a round from the left side because the left feed ramp was never machined on the completed barrel!

Needless to say, SA made good on everything but it was annoying!

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:21:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 12:42:37 PM EDT by OBird]
Please help

I have been having similar problems with SA ammo. I have tried various lot numbers of SA ammo, and shot it through five different mags (all USGI, I can see the markings that verify this), but it makes little difference. This is with a well broken-in, used M1A that I bought from a friend. The barrel (and therefore chamber, I'm assuming) is USGI, marked HRA 1962, chrome lined.

Every so often (anwhere from 1/20 to 1/5 rounds), I will have a casing that gets stuck in the chamber. The bolt flies back as it should, but with the casing still in the chamber. The bolt naturally tries to chamber another round, but this next round of course just jams into the case that's already in the camber. That's no problem (just push the round a centimeter back into the mag with your finger), but the cases getting stuck in the chamber are. When they get stuck, they're darned tight, too...I have to get a screwdriver (and some muscle) to pry them out, last time I was afriad the screwdriver would break because it was bending so much while prying the case out of the chamber (relatively small, thin screwdriver). After I get the case out and inspect it, I can see a little worn or shaved-off section of the rim where the extractor tried to grab on. This problem does not occur with any other ammo (Aussie, WWB, American Eagle, federal, etc.). Wait, I take that back.....it happened once or twice in extreme cold weather with storebought ammo (Federal .308 I think), but the cases were so loose in the chamber I could actually just pull them out with my finger with no problem. Only the South African needs a screwdriver to "crowbar" it out.

I figure this is either:

A) An extractor problem (my extractor looks kinda..."old", and it will not extract A-Zoom snap caps, since their .308 rims are like half a milimeter less in diameter than a real .308 rim).

B) A chamber problem (chamber is too tight....would one of those "ratcheted M14 chamber bruses" do anything to help me?)

C) A problem with the ammo itself (SA has inherintly weak brass or something and everyone else is just lucky)

D) Combination of some of the above, or something else entirely (I fully admit that I don't really know what I'm doing here, I'm not very experienced with this sort of thing or M1As in general).


Thanks everyone for the help, this problem is really worrying me (esp. after buying a whole bunch of SA .308 and wanting to buy a lot more if I can....).
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:03:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:
...I am going to oil the shit out of the rifle before...



Oil?! Oil is good as a preservative but not as an M14 lubricant (because it doesn't stay where you put it and inevitably ends up on your face when you start shooting). Use grease.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 10:21:49 AM EDT
Hey, Firefoxammo. I was running into the same problem on my M1A. You definitely need to grease points recommended by your manual. Don't for get to grease the op rod spring guide and spring. One other thing that I did was Change the Op rod spring with a spring from David Tubbs web site.
What would happen to me is the ammo would fire and the op rod would stop just about half way with the next round trying to reload. I would have to just push the op rod handle forward to load the round. It was discouraging if was defending my self. Now I was using USGI magazines too. Even my 10 rounder was doing the samething.

www.davidtubb.com (Superior Shooting Systems Inc. )

He has a replacement op rod spring and hammer spring. it is made of Chrome silicon springs.
definitely better spring than what came with my rifle. both springs cost me $21.95. I noticed better spring strength and with the hammer replacement spring a faster lock up. no doubt breaking in the rifle is recommended. but my problems was from the start. Worse when I had a full 20 round magazine. so both greasing and replacing the springs no problems after that. I too use SA ammo
alot. Hope my house don't catch fire.he

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 1:45:55 PM EDT by Firefoxammo]
Update: Fired around 100-120 rounds today. I can say that I have narrowed my suspicions. Out of the 100-120 rounds, I only had a few minor jams. The jams were not that bad either. To the point where I just slap the op rod forward and the round chambers. So Springfield Armory may be correct about the break in period, but I did get a few jams. Although not bad jams they were jams. So I am going to take that advice from Pohaku1 and get a new op rod spring. Seems that that is the most logical solution at this time. I have

1) Eliminated the magazines (they function fine) even borrowed a friends.

2) Suspect that there is a break in period ( did not happen often today)

3) Still iffy on the Ammo. All jams were with SA ammo.

4) Going to replace the op rod spring as Pohaku1 pointed out.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:31:38 PM EDT
As mentioned , I put in my new op rod and hammer spring from superior shooting systems today. There is a noticible difference in strength when chambering the rifle. WIll test fire it tomorrow. I hope this $25 investment makes a difference. I also hope I did not mess anything up in the trigger assembly. This was my first time taking an m14 apart . I hope I din't make it fully automatic
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