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Posted: 3/5/2006 12:49:16 AM EDT
Anyone know of anyone who does these, or any other magazine-fed Garand conversions?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:54:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 1:21:45 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 4:22:36 AM EDT
Oh, I wouldn't do it to my sole Garand.

I'm going to pick up my first Garand here in the next week or so.

I was thinking about getting a second Garand, if it were possible to build a "hybrid" between the M1 Garand and the M14 - i.e. a BAR-magazine fed .30-06 Garand.

Garand himself did such a thing, I think it was called the T20 or something, and seemed to work reasonably well in semi-auto form. It had some issues in FA, due to the action cycling too fast, but such an issue was apparently negating in semi-auto form.

Such a beast sounds pretty damned cool - if someone had any kind of schematic of Garand's design to machine parts, I'd jump on that in a minute.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 4:56:25 AM EDT
wouldn't you have to lengthen the rcvr? That itself would be a scary proposition.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:16:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:17:30 AM EDT by RABID]
You wouldn't have to lengthen the reciever, the BAR is .30-06 and so is the Garand. I'd say lengthening a reciever would be a next to impossible proposition.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:20:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 6:27:08 AM EDT by MSG]
It doesn't have anything to do with the caliber, but the mechanics and dimensions of fitting a mag to the receiver. I believe Garand experimented with a box fed M1 (T20 series) and he apparantely had to lengthen the rcvr to get it feed reliably.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:15:27 AM EDT
This topic should be banned!!!!!!!!!!!! Never mess with a Garand.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:05:57 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure the BAR mag conversions on standard M1s did not have a receiver lengthening.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:36:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
It was not uncommon a while back to see these being offered. Since then, other mag-fed MBRs have become available, and there is little need to go through the expense of converting an M1.

Make no mistake, this conversion, done right can be costly, given the amount of machining, new parts that must be properly heat-treated, and final re-finishing that is required.

No doubt there is someone out there who still does this.

Personally, I would advise against it, as you would be irreversibly altering a perfectly good M1 when there were plenty of other good and viable choices available.

Not to mention the fact that if the M1 alteration is not done just right, you've now ruined the M1 also.

The Italians used the BM-59 series of mag-fed M1s, but that was an arsenal conversion, with plenty of knowledge and technology behind the effort to see it done right. They are expensive (read uncommon), and the mags even more so. Sketchy parts availability and mag cost/uniqueness make this a collector's item, and remove it from the "go-to" category of weapons.



Just as a bit of info, Sarco has listed (in Volume 60, issue 7 of the SGN) BM59 parts sets. It's everything except the receiver, and they also sell the blueprints for the receiver (I assume to show where the modifications to the Garand receiver are). One downside to the conversion is Sarco carries the mags, but they're listed at $85 each.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:19:00 AM EDT
The big problem with the conversion is, the receiver has to be machined.
Since the Garand receiver is case hardened to a near-glass hardness, it first has to be annealed so it's soft enough to machine, then re-hardened.

This seldom works well, since the annealing, machining, and re-hardening almost always cause warping of the receiver.
Plus, the Garand receiver is difficult to re-harden properly even for a professional heat treating service.
Trying to do it in a workshop is essentially impossible.

That's why most of the converted rifles didn't work properly, OR had problems with too-hard receivers cracking, or too soft receivers quickly developing excess head space.

Bottom line: Chances of ending up with a good rifle are slim.
Chances of winding up with a crappy Frankenstein are high.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:32:09 AM EDT
what do you think the berreta Bm59 is ???
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:56:07 PM EDT
Dont know of anyone currently making them, There were at least 2 outfits in the past, West Texas Armory and Golden State Arms, although the Golden State mag fed Garand I had seen took M14 mags, but they apparently made them in .3006 from what I understand. I had a barreled Garand receiver that had been partially converted, the inside rails were ground away to allow a mag to be inserted. I had to sell it as I wasnt going to ever finish the project. Tommo of this forum bought it and I presume finished it. Its not impossible, but unless you come into the parts cheaply Im not sure its worth the hassle. The flip side being who makes a reasonably priced mag fed .30-06? Currently no one.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:37:01 PM EDT
A while back I had come across an article/for sale ad by Clayton or West Texas Ord in Ackerly, Texas.

He was offering a M14/Garand Hybrid conversion before he closed up shop.

Basically it consisted of an Armscorp M14 Reciever, M14 trigger group and .308 M14 barrel modified to fit/use the rest of the Garand parts including the Garand stock.

I was collecting parts when he closed the gun smithing part of the shop, some to to run the family business and others say he joined the service after high school.

I know he built a number of these and they were an impressive rifle.

VARoadking, myself and a few others have Garands converted to .308 by Clayton and he did one heck of a job ant a very fair price.

Karsten
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 3:21:48 PM EDT by MSG]
dang after the rcvr, barrel, and trigger group what was left from the M1? Gas system, sights and stock? What would be the practical benefit of that I wonder.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MSG:
dang after the rcvr, barrel, and trigger group what was left from the M1? Gas system, sights and stock? What would be the practical benefit of that I wonder.



MSG,

I don't know what the practical benifit was but it made for a heck of a good lookin rifle with the full wood stock and 20 round mag sticking out the bottom

Karsten
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:38:00 PM EDT
got any pics?....sounds interesting.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:49:26 PM EDT
So tagged.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:54:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:
So tagged.




Yup, you know you want one.

While I'd prefer a .30-06 version, I suppose I could settle for a .308 version.

I just like the idea of a full-stocked magazine-fed Garand.

The BM-59's are neat and all, but they look kinda goofy, and, again, they're not .30-06.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:38:26 PM EDT
A mag fed Garand in -06 would be a wood-a-day rifle I would take out and fondle everyday of my life till I stop breathing.


OR they take away my guns, like they did poor Old Uncle Jim.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:57:39 AM EDT
MSG, CavVet as for a picture I have searhed the net and cna't find anything.

I found a number for WTO and called one of Clayton's brothers at their retail store and asked if he could send me a photo if he can find one.

I also found out Clayton is not running the family farm but was in fact in high School went he was building rifles a few years ago.

Presently he is in Iraq and has a good shot at becoming a NM Armorer when he returns.

Karsten
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:28:50 PM EDT
I did a search over at battlerifles yday about this, there's a thread or two along with some pictures of the conversions. That forum seemed to be where alot of the Clayton-groupies hung out back when he was in business.

High school? Damn, that's interesting, but I bet there's a lot of people who didn't want to hear that.
"Hey, check out my Garand I had WTO do a while back"
"Ha, you let a high school kid build yer rifle? WTF?"
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:21:06 PM EDT
Bishop,

Clayton actually built two for me, completely rebuilt, refinished my Blue Sky with a 6 groove .308 barrel. Later I sent him my SA 1903 to be converted to .308 and a Lyman Peep Sight added to replicate a 1920's NRA NM rifle.

Both turned out great and at a price no one else could touch at the time.

Karsten
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:19:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bishopm14:
I did a search over at battlerifles yday about this, there's a thread or two along with some pictures of the conversions. That forum seemed to be where alot of the Clayton-groupies hung out back when he was in business.





And you come back here empty handed? No pics, no links, no nothing??




Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:54:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

And you come back here empty handed? No pics, no links, no nothing??







Ha. Sorry,I know it's a breach of arfcom etiquette, but I lack the mad skillz with this crap to be posting links, much less pictures. Yep, I'm techno-stupid.But hey, if I could find something in five or ten minutes of searching over there I suppose others could probably do it in two or three.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:16:28 PM EDT
Dp a search for the T37, T44 and the T20 rifles... These were all experimental conversions of the M1 taking a BAR mag. The a bunch of pictures in R Blake Stevens' book on the M14
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:57:55 PM EDT
I have a Beretta garand in 30-06 that takes BAR mags.

It was professionally converted back in the early 70's.

Garands should have been made that way from the begining...

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:43:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arashi:
I have a Beretta garand in 30-06 that takes BAR mags.

It was professionally converted back in the early 70's.

Garands should have been made that way from the begining...




Pictures, man, pictures!!!
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