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Posted: 2/13/2006 7:27:34 PM EDT
If I was a capable shooter with the M1, would a Service Grade CMP Garand be able to shoot 2" groups at 100yds??

I'm looking to get my first CMP Garand and I'd like something with "figure" but still able to hold an accurate group at 100yds. 200yds MAX.

So do I need to go up to Correct Grade or will Service Grade get it done for me?

Realistically, how much work will I need to do to get the run of the mill service grade into minimum fighting shape?

I'm sure this has been covered ad nausem, for that I apologize -- I didn't see anything on the first 4 pages of this forum that got my answers above.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:20:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:18:36 AM EDT
Shivan,

Two MOA with an issue M1 is possible, but don't count on it.

USGI Armory spec for the M1 rifle WHEN THEY WERE NEW was that it had to be capable of shooting 8 rounds of M2 ball ammo into 4 MOA or less at 100 yds. If the rifle could not do this, it was sent back for repair.

With a required spec of 4.0 MOA for 8 rds. @ 100 yds, or better, it is apparent that most M1's will do better than that WHEN NEW. In my experience however, most M1's, even when in "like new" condition will not quite make the 2.0 MOA @ 100 you are asking for. Time has taken it's toll and the wood (a tight fit for which is CRITICAL to M1 accuracy) has compressed and loosened. Maybe 20% will shoot this well, and not all the time and not with all ammo. The vast majority of issue grade M1's (and I'm talking here about barrels that meet Service Grade spec, i.e. new to slightly worn.) will shoot M2 ball into 2 to 3-1/2 inches @ 100 yds.

You can better your odds with better ammo. Many M1's will respond positively to tailored handloads using the SMK 150-168 or 175.

You can also better your odds for accuracy with new tightly fitted wood, or by shimming or bedding the action in the wood it comes with. Note that shimming and bedding are not allowed if you plan to shoot in CMP John C. Garand matches. They are allowed in NRA Service Rifle and in CMP EIC (LEG) Matches.

The ultimate in accuracy is to fully upgrade an M1 to "Match Grade" state with a new commercial barrel (Wilson, Douglas, Criterion, and Kreiger all make good ones) new tight wood, fully glass bedded, unitized front end, trigger job, and NM sight set. I own two such rifles and shoot them in NRA Service Rifle and in CMP Leg matches. Both are well capable of less than 2 MOA (the size of the 10 ring) all the way out to 600 yards. One is quite capable of holding the X ring at 600 (1.0 MOA) if I could ever tighten up that loose nut behind the butt. ha :D

BTW, I own LOTS of M1 rifles. All bought from the CMP. Most of them have been Service Grade and are what I use in formulating the above stated opinion. ;)

Best of luck,
Swampy

garands forever
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted by Shivan:
Realistically, how much work will I need to do to get the run of the mill service grade into minimum fighting shape?



Well, if you consider loading clips work, then quite a bit !!

IIRC, the mil. standard for them was 4 moa, although even my rack grade will do better than this (when I manage to do my part).

Your 2" standard MIGHT take some work, but I have seen and heard of others that have had that right out of the box.




Originally Posted By Dano523:

Service grade will be the ticket, but you will have a little work to do.



Maybe yes, maybe not.


Originally Posted By Dano523:
...is useable and the TE gauges on the low side...



Throat erosion (TE) is much less important than Muzzle Wear (MW), which is why CMP points out in its descriptions of rack and field grades that the MW may be over a "3".



Originally Posted By Dano523:
... it's time to check the receiver to stock fit. Since most of the rifle have been locked into the stocks for decades, it really boils down to either glassing the stock, or buying a new stock to install the action in.



Blanket statements really are useless. You just can't tell until you shoot it. If the stock is reasonably tight, you should be good to go.


Originally Posted by Dano523: ...168 HPBT in LC brass, 47 grains of IMR 4895 with a .040 jump to lands (read out of the clips).


What is the COL on those loads?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:25:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:28:07 AM EDT by Garand06]
I see Swampy posted while I was thinking about what I wanted to say.

I would pay MUCH more attention to his suggestions than mine.



Originally Posted by Swampy:
if I could ever tighten up that loose nut behind the butt.



HEY! Thats my problem!

Tim
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:02:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swampy:
Shivan,

Two MOA with an issue M1 is possible, but don't count on it.

USGI Armory spec for the M1 rifle WHEN THEY WERE NEW was that it had to be capable of shooting 8 rounds of M2 ball ammo into 4 MOA or less at 100 yds. If the rifle could not do this, it was sent back for repair.



Oh, I wasn't intentionally being unrealistic, I just didn't know.

Hell, I can't shoot irons that well anyway so it would probably be a moot point.

From what it sounds like, I should just grab a Service Grade and see what I get, and then move on from there? Is that about the sum of it?

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:58:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:


From what it sounds like, I should just grab a Service Grade and see what I get, and then move on from there? Is that about the sum of it?





Yep!!!!


BTW, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the sights on an M1. I had never used a peep sight before buying my first Garand, all I can say is "WOW". I now have an AR, also, and while I'm not bad with it, the longer sight radius on the Garand seems to make a clear focus on the front sight easier.

Tim
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:38:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 9:21:40 AM EDT by NovaHokie9]
I don't think you will be disappointed at all with a Service Grade. I have three (only)!

Edit: My Winchester FG just posted on the estore today, w00t! Happy Valentines Day to me!

Second edit: Just saw the credit card was hit! Should ship very soon!
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