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Posted: 1/31/2006 4:46:33 PM EDT
Ok, can this M1A be made to shoot consistantly at 1000 yds?

What will it take if it is possible?

N Texas Arfcom group has an upcoming event this April at Tiger Valley and I would like to make this rifle be a quality shooter...









I guess quality ammo suggestion is in order too...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:29:28 PM EDT
Ok, can this M1A be made to shoot consistantly at 1000 yds? Yes.

What will it take if it is possible? $$$$$$$$


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:03:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
Ok, can this M1A be made to shoot consistantly at 1000 yds? Yes.

What will it take if it is possible? $$$$$$$$





Well, besides the obvious.......
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:05:10 PM EDT
Define your concept of "accurate at 1000 yards."

Have you ever fired at a 1000 yard target?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:17:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
Define your concept of "accurate at 1000 yards."

Have you ever fired at a 1000 yard target?



FYI, it is a loooonnnnnng way. I wouldn't want to do it with irons, course, I am gettin' to be an old fcuker!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:24:29 PM EDT
It can be done with $$$$$.

The Smith Enterprise, Inc. Crazy Horse M-14SE (SASS) is a 1000 +
yard sniper rifle and SEI can convert your M1A into an SASS clone.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:26:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
Define your concept of "accurate at 1000 yards."

Have you ever fired at a 1000 yard target?



Excellent Question: Longest I have shot is 400 yds, but not with the M1A...The location is at Tiger Valley:

www.tigervalley.com/

This is a great facility in central Texas. I am looking at quality scopes like luepold etc...but is that really enough for an "out of box" rifle?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:54:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
It can be done with $$$$$.

The Smith Enterprise, Inc. Crazy Horse M-14SE (SASS) is a 1000 +
yard sniper rifle and SEI can convert your M1A into an SASS clone.



Do you have their websit available?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:02:14 PM EDT
$$$$$$

An M1a needs alot of work( about $ 2k ) to shoot well by competitive standards at 1000yds. If you just wan't to have fun shoot it as is or buy a nice bolt gun to play around with at 1000 yds because it will be cheaper and shoot better.

Also shooting at 1000 yds, no matter how good the rifle shoots it comes down to how well you can read wind and mirage ...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:36:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentRun:

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
It can be done with $$$$$.

The Smith Enterprise, Inc. Crazy Horse M-14SE (SASS) is a 1000 +
yard sniper rifle and SEI can convert your M1A into an SASS clone.



Do you have their websit available?



www.smithenterprise.com/
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:52:57 PM EDT
WOW! Did you see the clip of the full auto M-14 with the SEI Brake on it. Amazingly little muzzle rise.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:09:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mlm1219:

Originally Posted By SilentRun:

Originally Posted By H2O_MAN:
It can be done with $$$$$.

The Smith Enterprise, Inc. Crazy Horse M-14SE (SASS) is a 1000 +
yard sniper rifle and SEI can convert your M1A into an SASS clone.



Do you have their websit available?



www.smithenterprise.com/



Thanks for the info...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:35:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentRun:
Ok, can this M1A be made to shoot consistantly at 1000 yds?
What will it take if it is possible?



If you live in the DFW area, it going to take about $185.50, and a few meals if I can find the time to do it for you (nights at your house/tools since I’m stuck down here in a apartment for the next few months, looking for something to do instead of watching even more tv).

You have a loaded model, and for the most part, the rifle is good to go.

The cylinder/front hand band needs to go to Krieger to be unitized ($27).

Trigger needs to be set to 4.5 lbs (just smithing).

Change out the guide rod to a NM one (Sadlak unit is $38.50)

The action needs to be fitted/glassed into the stock (steel bedding kit is 34.97 from brownells).

If you’re planning on using iron sights,
Front sight needs to be replaced with a thinner NM unit/blade.
The rear sight needs to go to a NM 1/2" MOA hood, and the windage knob needs to be replaced with AMU style 1/2 MOA knob ($85 from garandrifle.com for all the above).
Note: if you plan on scoping, you can drop the $85, but will need to add around $1000 if you are going with a 36X on a Sadlak base with rings.

From that point, the rifle will be around a MOA NM unit (not counting doping wind), and you will just need to come up with a hand load for the 1K line.

P.S. if your going prone, you will need to add another few dollars for Krieger to weld up your front sling loop (will use allen head button screws to reattach it), and about $45 for a turner sling. Using a cheap sling is like pissing into the wind, and without the loop welded, slinging up tight is going to pull the clip apart.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:38:18 PM EDT
To add: Warbird is down in Huston, and he should be able to quote you a price if you just want to send the rifle to him to have it NM'd.

www.warbirdscustomguns.com/
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:30:04 AM EDT
Send it to Hook Boutin in Georgia, he'll get it in fine shape for 1000 yards for under 100 bucks.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:31:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Send it to Hook Boutin in Georgia, he'll get it in fine shape for 1000 yards for under 100 bucks.



Hook still above ground? He worked on my M1 and M1A about 25 years ago. He had a nice shop behind his house.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:41:06 AM EDT
Thanks for all the great info....

The question, spend the money on the M1A or go and get something new.....

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Send it to Hook Boutin in Georgia, he'll get it in fine shape for 1000 yards for under 100 bucks.



+1
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:43:52 AM EDT
Sir, I'd like to add a few comments to those provided by Mr. Dano523. First, the rear sight: An NM-2A sight is the better choice for longer range shooting with an M1A. The elevation pinion rack needs to be carefully fitted to the sight base to eliminate lateral movement of the aperture during recoil. The NM-2A sight windage is two minutes per revolution and one half minute per click vice the eight clicks per revolution of the windage knob already mentioned which is four minutes per revolution. Additionally, in conjunction with the thinner front sight blade already mentioned the front sight should be shortened to reduce the height the rear sight must be elevated to achieve a 1K yd. zero. If you use the standard height front sight the elevation of the rear sight will be somewhere around forty-five clicks or more from the bottom. For my purposes I use a different front sight for 1K than the sight I use across the course. I use match marks on each sight to align them when I change to the 1K sight after I finish at 600yd. At extreme of elevations the rear aperture resembles a football and centering with the eye becomes difficult. Also, this aggravates the tendency of the rear sight to move laterally which necessitates all the more a good fit of the elevation rack with the sight base.

If it were my rifle, in addition to bedding of the stock, I would replace the stock you have with a McMillan glass stock.

Lastly, the Sierra 175gr match bullets works well for this distance, you'll need an MV somewhere in the vicinity of 2650fps. HTH, 7zero1.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:47:06 AM EDT
Contact info for Hook?

Also does he do Garands too?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:09:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:05:48 PM EDT
Shooting at 1000 yds with iron is out of the question with my eyes, 200 ok but 1000... so quality optics is really the only sensible answer for me and the M1A...

But I also get the feeling based on the information received through this thread that the M1 was not really designed for anything more that 600 yds. Yes it is possible to shoot out to 1000 yds ... but there are better firearms for the application.... Is this summary basicly true?
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 6:23:31 PM EDT by tangeant]
An accurate NM M1 does just fine at 1000yds.

Seriously you would be better of with a nice bolt gun esp if you wan't to shoot with optics.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:26:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentRun:
Shooting at 1000 yds with iron is out of the question with my eyes, 200 ok but 1000... so quality optics is really the only sensible answer for me and the M1A...

But I also get the feeling based on the information received through this thread that the M1 was not really designed for anything more that 600 yds. Yes it is possible to shoot out to 1000 yds ... but there are better firearms for the application.... Is this summary basicly true?



Yes.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:56:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocketman:
Contact info for Hook?

Also does he do Garands too?




I do not have the contact info for Mr. Boutin anymore but if you will go to the Jouster M1 forum and ask, I bet someone can get it to you.

Hook is an old army armourer from way back. He was in on developing the M1 and M14 rifles into match guns and the M14 sniper rifle. There is nothing about those two rifles that he doesn't know.

M1 forum
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:47:08 AM EDT
I'm new to this site but not new to the M1A. Yes the M1A service grade can be use to shoot at 1000 yds. and fairly cheap. I've shot hundreds of 1000 yd matches with the M1A. granted Matched up with a have match barrel and heavy stock, NM sights etc would be better. But simple modifications can be made without a good deal of money. Most of my 1000 yd shooting was done while I was on the National Guard rifle team. Ammo is critical, in my shooting I used the serria 168 gr HPBT match bullets for 2-300 yds, and and Serria 180 hpbt match bullets for 600 and 1000 yd matches. My best match scores were fired when I found some remmington 308 brass with the using small primer pockets, (bench rest brass) using 41.5 grns of 4895 behind both the 168s and 180s. My best match was at 29 Palms when I won my class. We fired a 3 gun event, any rifle-any sight , any rifle Iron sights, and service rifle. My any rifle was a 300 win single shot I made on a Mod 70 action. I beat the my any sight (scope) scores with my any rifle iron sight match, then beat them both with my service rifle (M1A) match using the above ammo. The main problem with 1000 yard matches is judging the wind regardless of what gun ammo combination you use. You can best practice this with a good 22 cal target rifle at 100 yards.

I say go a head and shoot the service grade M1A at 1000 yds. If you want information on accurizing the M1A, without spending tons of money e-mail me. I dont believer target shooting should be a rich man's sport. I'm not saying I know all there is about long range shooting but I have my Distinguished Badge, and have shot out six barrels on my M1A.

kraigWY
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:24:01 PM EDT

I say go a head and shoot the service grade M1A at 1000 yds. If you want information on accurizing the M1A, without spending tons of money e-mail me. I dont believer target shooting should be a rich man's sport. I'm not saying I know all there is about long range shooting but I have my Distinguished Badge, and have shot out six barrels on my M1A.


Shooting out six barrels will cost you more than any amount of gunsmithing, parts, or glass.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:36:54 PM EDT
I didnt say I didnt have a pricy M1A, but it didnt start out that way. I started with a service grade M1A in 1978. Shortly after I started shooting for the National Guard, they were buying my replacement barrels. You shoot on a National Guard rifle team for 15 years you're gonna wear out some barrels.

I was referring to one starting out, and dont have the military support nor the funds to buy a $2500 rifle.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:23:01 PM EDT

Shortly after I started shooting for the National Guard, they were buying my replacement barrels.


I wasn't talking about the barrels. The cost of the barrels pales in comparison to the cost of enough ammo to shoot through 6 of 'em.

How many 7.62 rounds do you figure you've put downrange?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:30:43 PM EDT
Using a throat erosion gage, (match) barrels would start to go between 5-6000 rounds. Most of my practice was done with NG Match M14, saving my M1A for matches. I have no ideal anymore how many rounds I sent down range over the years.
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