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Posted: 1/6/2006 6:04:24 PM EDT
I want to put a high end scope on my national match. I'm really looking at Swarovski or Khales. This scope needs to be at least excellent on the NM M1A, as I don't plan to buy multiple scopes in th enext ten years or so. This would need to be a scope I could put on a sub MOA bolt action gun...when I get around to one. Perhaps something that could survive .338 Lapua. I'm thinking 30mm tube and around 50mm objective to capture as much light as possible. I'm looking to target shoot out to 800 yards. I'm very unsure of what recticles I ought to be looking for. I'm assuming, and I hate to do that, that a $1500+ Swarovski/ Khales/ Zeiss would have the most appropriate recticles 30mm x50+mm set up. Please share your thoughts...especially about recticles, and why.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:46:19 PM EDT
I have a Leupold 30mm tube 4.5x14 power 50mm obj LR/T Mark 4 on mine. I have the mil-dot rectile...non-luminated. I use it along with a mil-dot master for range estimation.

I'm still learning.....but range good range estimation in critical at 800 yards.

What role do you plan on using you rifle for. And what are you planning on estimating range with?
That has a lot of bearing on the reticle you choose.....


Is this a tactical rifle? A range gun? or what? Those are all high quality scopes you mentioned.....but I don't really think you need to spend that much money on a scope though.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:09:52 PM EDT
You are right, I most likely dont need to spend that much money on a scope, but my plan is to only buy one excellent one, and never buy another, so I really dont want to leave anything to be desired. This scope would also be used on the next long range gun I get interested in. When that comes into play, the M1A will go back to irons.

My goal is strictly target shooting. I really don't know anything about range estimation, or how to use recticles that assist in range estimation. This is all kinda new to me. I've been shooting 100 yards and 150. I would like to creep out to 800 and kinda learn as I go.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:41:26 AM EDT
I have a leopold on my M1a. It's a 4-12, 40mm scope and it's very accurate. I can get 1.25 inch groups out of my loaded model with handloads. It's a good scope and only cost about 300 dollars IIRC.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:17:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 5:28:01 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:33:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:36:36 AM EDT by Whitesmoke]
no offense....I'm glad it served you well. But if you had to return 2 of them to get a good one, then it wouldn't be something I'd want on a serious gun. Springfield has discontinued those scopes I believe after all the problems they had....plus, they just imported them and put their name on them, so they couldn't really fix the problem either.


You'll not often hear that kind of story about a Leupold or those other scopes he mentioned. I like to stick with stuff that the military has proven durable. A B&L 10X would work well too.

Another thing.....Think about getting a scope with a BDC, makes range adjustment so much easier. Just remember, you need to have your ammo matched to your BDC.

My M1a loaded model shoots .75 MOA with a few upgrades (better stock, Federal Match 175gr HPBT)....I think I just got lucky with this rifle shooting so well.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:39:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:46:10 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:48:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:48:26 AM EDT by Whitesmoke]
Wow...I' never heard anyone have that kind of experience with them (a leupold). I've only owned 2 of them.....one I've had one for about 20 years. The other only about 4.....I hope I have continue to have better luck than you did with them.

I've heard good things about the US optics scopes as well.....
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:53:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:54:23 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:03:52 AM EDT
I know one upgrade the military MK4's always had and the civilian version now has as well is they have the rectile etched into the glass instead of wire reticles.

Were most of your problems rectile related? or?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:10:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:47:01 AM EDT
I've used Leupold's almost exclusively on my hunting rifles in calibers up to .338 mag with no problems at all.

On my M1A National Match I'm running a 10x SWFA Super Sniper on an old style ARMS #18 with QD ARMS rings. It works for me fine.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:11:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Talyn:
I've used Leupold's almost exclusively on my hunting rifles in calibers up to .338 mag with no problems at all.

On my M1A National Match I'm running a 10x SWFA Super Sniper on an old style ARMS #18 with QD ARMS rings. It works for me fine.



Does the ARMS 18 leave marks on the receiver?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:42:21 PM EDT
ARMS #18 with a 20x Super Sniper for me........
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:47:48 PM EDT
Which height ARMS mounts should I use to clear a 40 or a 50mm objective assuming an ARMS 18 is used?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:18:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:20:27 PM EDT by Talyn]
Does the ARMS 18 leave marks on the receiver?

Not that I can tell. It's been on my NM ever since I got it & I don't take it off. I believe I have the #22 lows on it since they are inherently higher becaise of the throw lever mechanism. You could doublecheck with SWFA.

BTW, save a Swarovski or Khales for a HQ bolt gun. Putting one of those on a M1A is abit overkill IMO.
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