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Posted: 1/3/2006 10:35:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:39:04 PM EDT by master935]
I have been looking for new 7.62 SASS rifle, and came up with these two rifles. First is the Springfield armory loaded standard, now I have heard some good things and some bad things about the new SA rifles and wondered weather this a reliable choice for a long range rifle?. And second is the Armalite AR-10, Now I have also heard some good and bad things about this rifle, But it's about $70 cheaper from impactguns.com but that's not what I'm basing this on. What I'm basing this on is which one will be a better more reliable rifle in the long run. So vote on which one you like best, and to anyone with worthwhile info on either of these rifles please feel free to post. Thanks

DISCLAIMER I have already posted a poll just like this in the ar10/180 forum to get an even opinion.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:10:12 AM EDT
Pictures coming back from the sand box show alot of M-14 rifles being used . To me it shows the military believes in that platform.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:36:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:35:17 AM EDT
SASS is for cowboys.

What kind of sniper are you?



.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:16:00 AM EDT
If your going to scope the rig, the AR-10/DPMS 308/Bar-10 flat tops are the better rig.

The M1a/14 requires that you add a check rest, and the mounts alone tend to be in the $200 range. Plus you get into bedding or a custom type stock to get the rifle down to the MOA really needed to get the most out of the scope.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:24:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 6:25:09 AM EDT by H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted By Dano523:...Plus you get into bedding or a custom type stock to get the rifle down to the MOA really needed to get the most out of the scope.


SEI gets sub-MOA from a non-bedded synthetic GI stock. I'm not sure how they do it, but it works.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:36:50 PM EDT
well I really don't think that the scope mounting will be an issue because I want to put a sage stock on it. That is of corse if I buy the m1a.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:57:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By master935:
well I really don't think that the scope mounting will be an issue because I want to put a sage stock on it.



Something like this ~

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:03:40 AM EDT
H2O man if tha pic is your weapon, how much does it weigh?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:41:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By racecar:
SASS is for cowboys.

What kind of sniper are you?



.



So, How was "Brokeback Mountain"? Sassy enough?
Sorry, my brain said the STFU, but my fingers weren't listening!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 6:55:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:00:47 AM EDT by H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted By Joker18:
H2O man if tha pic is your weapon, how much does it weigh?





13 pounds and 4.4 ounces as pictured above with an empty mag.
The Crazy Horse barrel is a full pound heavier than a standard 18.

Details of the build
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:12:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:13:16 AM EDT by m4hk33]
the crazy horse is a great gun, but this guy is asking about the SA standard loaded, the crazy horse is on a diffrent level than the SA, to make a the loaded standard run like the crazy horse, its goign to require a decent level a money and knowledge

but all things being equil, the armalite will out preform the SA and will run with the crazy horse

also to add, dont buy from impact they charge way too much, buy off a bord sponser, youll probly end up saving a few hundred dollars in the process,

GA precision, MSTN, ADCO, all make great weapons for what you would apy at impact
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:23:30 AM EDT
I have never heard of an Armalite AR0 that could run thru a full mag without Jamming. Certainly would not put my life on the line with one.
The SA is a much better choice if you can find an Older one with ALL USGI parts. The new ones are rumored to be not so good.
TS
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:37:15 AM EDT
I have a 1988 that i just picked up that FTF's about half the rounds in every mag, internaly the weapon looks great, just not sure why its not picking up the next round

as for ar10s not being able to feed a whole mag, ok, think about it, if that was the case, armalite would not be around if they were putting a product that didnt work. most of the mag problems were the result of poor conversion jobs of the original m14 mags, once armalite started to mfg the mags with shorter lips, the problem went away. unfortunalty they still have a repution for not being able to feed

my AR10 on the other hand hasnt had any FTF's

hey i like the m1A, but ask smith enterprise how great the a SA M1A is. their quality has been eroding since 1986
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:01:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
the crazy horse is a great gun, but this guy is asking about the SA standard loaded, the crazy horse is on a diffrent level than the SA, to make a the loaded standard run like the crazy horse, its goign to require a decent level a money and knowledge.



Well, the guy asked: "Which is the best rifle to use as a semi automatic sniper system(sass)?"

IMHO both the SA loaded standard and the AR-10 require a decent level a money and knowledge to be transformed into a true SASS.

My MK14 is built on a Y2K Springfield Armory cast receiver. Ron & Bill had no quality problems with the SA product.
I'll take the SEI M14 type SASS over the AR-10 version with no regrets.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:19:04 AM EDT
i give you that, they both require a decent amount of money,

but just going off of my expierince with the AR platform,
the Marine Corps Warfighting labs analysis of the SASS program,
the Army's infantrys Centers analysis of the SASS program

IMHO, i think that if the m14 was a better system, that they would become more significant in the scout sniper communtiy. the sniper communtiy has begun to impliment a SASS in their doctrin and ToE. almost exclusivly this has been the AR platform in the form of the SR25/mk11, if the end uses wanted this and it was the truly beter weapon it would be implimented,

but as for a DMR, I say the m14 is good to go, they are in the invantory and can fullfill a capibility that the m16 can not.

as to which is better, that is dependent on the end user
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:31:05 AM EDT

I have never heard of an Armalite AR0 that could run thru a full mag without Jamming.


Then it sounds like you need to stop listening to Joe Blow and actually go shoot one.

I think the AR10 and the mag story is very similar to the current production M1A's and there "spontaneously disassembly" or cracking of their bolts. While I'm sure that there have been the occasional problems, it's nowhere near as big of a problem as some would make you believe on the internet.
If you are looking for a SASS that requires little work out of the box, then your better off with the AR10. Even if you did no basic work with an M14, you'll still need to buy a base and rings (figure $180+ for a Smith Mount) and it still probably won't have the accuracy you want. Figure in having your gas system unitized or shimmed, flash suppressor opened up and a trigger job done and you've just added more money.
An AR10 on the other hand is pretty much ready to go. Add rings and optics and shoot-you should have no problems shooting 1MOA with a standard A4-plus you won't need to worry about the attention that needs to be given to the gas system and keeping it clean. Later on you can free float the barrel if you want and you'll be even better off. An may not shoot so well from the box.
Sorry, I love the M14 as much as the next guy but practically speaking your better off with the AR10. I had my USMC DMR built by USMC GnySgt. Andy Conrad (ret'd)at G.A. Precision. While it is a fun rifle to shoot and pop steel out to 700yds or so, I wouldn't use it for serious shoots as it's a 3/4MOA rifle on demand. It's shot alot of groups better than that, but my GAP built SR25 (and AR10 before) shoots sub 1/2MOA pretty regularly. To boot, it certainly wasn't cheap to make the M14 shoot that way. For the same level of work, the AR10 and SR25 is definetely cheaper.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:52:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:53:40 AM EDT by Joker18]
DPMS also makes several model AR rifles in .308. I was planning to buy one till the SOCOM followed me home. Their most expensive model the AP4 308 is only $1,250 MSRP (you can get one for < $1,000) and most of them will shoot MOA out of the box. They can Cryo accurize the barrel and will build one to whatever options you want. I was planning to get the 308B with the 18" bull barrel but I was going to have the barrel fluted, and switch the upper receiver to a standard A3 with dust cover and forward assist. The stock 308B receiver does not have a dust cover or forward assist although it is a flat top receiver. The reason I didn't purchase was they currently have a 12 week delivery on custom option rifles and being a former old Marine who was issued an M-14, I am biased to the M-14 action and rifle. Just throwing out another option to explore. Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 11:37:44 AM EDT
master935,

Take another look at the DPMS 308.

As pointed out, you can now get the rifle with the a3 upper receiver, and the rifle comes with two 20 round mags for under $1000. Add a SS 10X or 16X to the rig with rings and your under $1300 for a complete rig that will shoot MOA out of the box.

Nothing wrong with the m1a/14 (hell I own a few), but to get the most out of them in scoped rolls, your bucking the $2000 mark. At that price, your into SR-25 rifle range.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:50:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
master935,

Take another look at the DPMS 308.

As pointed out, you can now get the rifle with the a3 upper receiver, and the rifle comes with two 20 round mags for under $1000. Add a SS 10X or 16X to the rig with rings and your under $1300 for a complete rig that will shoot MOA out of the box.

Nothing wrong with the m1a/14 (hell I own a few), but to get the most out of them in scoped rolls, your bucking the $2000 mark. At that price, your into SR-25 rifle range.

yeah I have been to the DPMS web page and seen their rifles... but what about the customer service?
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