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Posted: 12/10/2003 7:54:18 PM EDT
I was lookin' into the garand and was reading the instruction book from Springfield. It says in there to only use military ammo because civy ammo has primers that are too soft. Has anyone used civilian/hunting ammo in their Garand? Any problems with accidental discharges?
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:39:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:25:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 6:42:10 AM EDT by Ralph]
Raf does make some good points but,I can say loading for the M1 is'nt as dangerous as it sounds,But,for a novice reloader with little experience it very well can be, There are some considerations that must be taken in and understood before you start, and it helps to have a good understanding of how the rifle works before you start,But, I've found that case prep and powder selection are two very,very important areas to consider, Raf mentions the use of mil-spec primers, I disagree,(using mil-spec primers is'nt a bad idea, I just don't think they're nessessary) I've been using commerical primers on both my Ar's and in both of my M1's with no problems after 1000's of rounds, the key here is case prep... I bought a primer pocket reamer set from sinclair awhile back(chucked up in a cordless drill) and as part of the case prep I ream the primer pockets with this tool, this results in a primer pocket that has a consistant depth from case to case ,and allows one to seat a primer BELOW flush, eliminating the possiabity of a slam fire,(you'd be surprized how many variations in primer pocket depth you'll find from case to case) most slam fires are caused by "high" primers, ones that are'nt seated below flush,I also use this reamer to clean out debris left from firing,and to insure the primer seats below flush everytime I load the cases, one also wants to keep an eye on case legnth,this could also be another source of a slam fire, I trim mine every time I load them,and toss them after 5 loadings,By this time the cases are getting stretched pretty good from sizing and firing, and firing them any more than that is asking for a casehead seperation, and possiable slamfire with an unlocked bolt, I've also used a vareity of bullet weights 147-169 with good results..However the M1 was not designed to shoot bullets heavier than 172 gr,the 147's are about as light as you want to go as well.So, you are somewhat limited with bullet selection, Powders, the key here is not to use too slow of a powder, this will cause trouble,(a bent op-rod at a minium) the gas system on a M1 was designed for 4895 orginally, however 4064, will also work very well and in my case I've been using surplus WC-846 (BLc-2) and have had no problems whatsoever, check out www.masterpostemple@bravepages.com there you can find some M1 loading info reprinted from the NRA,(carefully work your loads up) that's what I've been using for loading info..the key here is carefully prep your cases, keep track how many times they've been loaded, use components that are compatable with the M1's gas system(very important) and always, always, make sure you primers are seated below flush,(check'em with your fingers before you box'em up) and you should,nt have any problems...
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:16:35 PM EDT
quote from Ralph:

I've also used a vareity of bullet weights 147-169 with good results..However the M1 was not designed to shoot bullets heavier than 172 gr,the 147's are about as light as you want to go as well.So, you are somewhat limited with bullet selection, Powders, the key here is not to use too slow of a powder, this will cause trouble,(a bent op-rod at a minium) the gas system on a M1 was designed for 4895 orginally, however 4064, will also work very well and in my case I've been using surplus WC-846 (BLc-2) and have had no problems whatsoever, check out www.masterpostemple@bravepages.com


Read this carefully.

M2 Ball is loaded with a 150gr FMJ at 2740 fps. Most of your commercial hunting ammo with a 150gr softpoint is loaded to 2900fps. This is accomplished by using a slower burning powder than the M1 likes. Thus a steady diet will likely harm your rifle.

I reload for my M1 using IMR 4064 and 150 Sierra GameKings. A near starting load in the manuals will give you the 2750fps. This isn't as hot as commercial ammo, but unless you're shooting at big game at unreasonable distances then that deer still ain't gonna' know what hit it.

CCI introduced a primer with a harder cup just for military rifles. I have had good luck with the standard primers but next time I buy primers it will be some of these. A little more expensive, but cheaper than blowing up a historic rifle. And maybe taking my face with it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:28:30 PM EDT
You might also include the rest of what I said, The Data from the site I mentioned orginally came from the NRA,and also suggested to work your loads up carefully.... I was not suggesting at any time that any one use store bought 150 gr commerically loaded ammo in a M1, I am well aware of the diffrence,and burn rates of commericaly loaded ammo and ammo that can be used in M1's, As I said, a bent op-rod at a minium, it could be also much worse,I've been loading for 23 years I think I know a little bit about this....Thank you for your concern
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 5:55:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2003 5:57:21 AM EDT by Fruit_of_the_Looms]
Ralph,

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers if, in deed, I did. I don't see in Shotguns question anything about reloading even though you, Raf and I do so for our M1's. I agree with what you say about case prep. I also ream and clean my primer pockets after each firing for my AR and M1, for the same reasons.

I also missed any references to using store bought ammo in the M1 in yours and Raf's posts. Maybe because I didn't follow the link in your post. I had meant my reply to Shotgun. I certainly didn't mean to belittle or demean your contribution. My apologies if my post came across that way.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 6:17:58 AM EDT
Fruit,
I should be the one apologising, on 12/12 I found out a member of my family is in the hospitial and may not make it,and there is nothing anyone can do, I took out my frustration out on you, with my snotty last post, that was wrong,I am sorry...
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:56:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:00:50 AM EDT
No harm, no foul Ralph.

I'll say a prayer for your family. Take care.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:32:32 PM EDT
I just loaded 25 180g sp with 42g IMR 4895. Want to use it for deer hunting, did I screw up again? (I've got a 1944 Springfield with a 1983 barrel)

rk
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:03:17 AM EDT
Axl, In my opinion you're on the edge but not over it. I just checked my 5th edition Hornady's manual. They had a listing for 180gr bullets in their M1 section. With 42.0 grs they list around 2300-2400 fps. I wouldn't push that heavy bullet any fast then that, if it were me.

How big are the deer in AL? Personally, I would use a 165gr bullet a little faster. Actually, 165gr commercial loads are my favorite deer medicine in bolt guns. I've never hunted with my M1 so I haven't given much thought in coming up with a load just for deer to feed it.

My favorite M1 load is 49.0grs IMR 4064 with a Sierra 150gr flat base in commercial brass. This load chrony's out of my M1 and 03A3 right at 2750 fps +/- 20fps. This is well within M2Ball specs and safe in an M1. I really don't think there is a deer around that can't be dropped immediately with this load. Especially if you're sticking to reasonable ranges with open sights.

Just my humble opinion. YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:40:34 AM EDT
Thanks for the reply, the deer are decent sized but due to the North Ala region I'm hunting in I want them to drop immediately, too hard to track them otherwise. I'm in the foothills of the Appalacian Mtns and its steep and thick. Several friends have lost them in the rocks, boulders,underbrush ect. This ammo will be for the hunt only, not for target or playing. I try to take a different milsurp each year for deer season, gives me an excuse to really learn about and spend a lot of time with the gun. It also makes me appreciate the history and the men who used the guns in combat. Ranges are always under 100yds and I wanted the extra bullet weight cause of brush.

rk
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:14:05 PM EDT
Is the powder burn rate also an issue with the M-1a?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:11:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:36:15 AM EDT
This is a great thread. What about ucommercial "hunting" ammo for the M1 or M1A? I don't reload, so that's not an option for me at this time. Thoughts?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:52:55 PM EDT
I found it interesting on where the thread went so I just let it go. Damage of the moving parts from excess blowback and damage of barrel and chamber from too much pressure is something I didn't consider. I was mainly asking about accidental slam fires. The intent was on commercial hunting ammo but I didn't clarify that in the question.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:18:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:45:19 PM EDT
I want to thank all of you for your kind words and prayers. We laid my grandmother to rest on Wed., She was 98yrs old. I will miss her,I know God will take care of her,she is in good hands...Thanks again, for your thoughts and prayers, they were greatly appreciated....
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:30:52 PM EDT
Ok, most of you are on the right track but there have been some misconceptions about this issue.

Generaly, you don't want to use commerical ammunition in the M1 or M1a. The reason behind this is that the manufactures use too slow of a powder for the M1's gas system. You are NOT going to blow up the rifle! The ONLY part that you risk causing damage is the op rod. When the port pressure of the M1 gets too high, too much stress is placed on the op rod, causing it to bend. It will eventualy need to be replaced as it will cease to function. BTW, if you use bullets heavier then about 175 gr or powders slower then IMR 3031, the port pressure will be too high for the op rod.

There is a good side though. If you don't reload or want to use heavier bullets, you can replace the gas plug with an adjustiable gas plug for about 30 bucks. This way, you can vent off extra gas and not have to worry about the excess presures being fully applied to the op rod. I plan on getting one of these when I draw a bear tag. I want to kill a bear with an M1. I plan on using 220 gr bullets for this.

Now, I don't have all night to hash this subject out. If anyone has any questions about this, IM me and I'll be glad to answer any questions about this issue.

Link Posted: 12/20/2003 9:47:50 PM EDT
Good thread. I shoot only handloads and the Danish surplus 150 grain ball ammo that comes in M1 clips in my M1.
The load I use for accuracy shooting uses AA2520 and was designed for the M1, thus is a bit slower than some commercial loads. It used the 168 grain Sierra MatchKing bullet and shoots better than I can hold. For Elk hunting this Fall I used the same load but substituted the bullet with a 165 grain Nosler Partition. I chronographed this ammo and got 2620 fps average with a nice low SD of 22. Note that this velocity is well below what Federal loads this same bullet in 30-06 in their commercial ammo, but this is what the M1 needs for proper safe operation. I use Winchester standard primers (WLR), all the time.

As always reload carefully and for the M1 be sure to use a powder that provides not only the proper pressure, but the proper presure curve. In other words, like others here have correctly stated USE M1 Garand loads only!
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