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Posted: 11/8/2003 12:45:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 7:56:27 PM EDT
Nice. I'd like to see an M14 gas cylinder with a sight base (like the M1). Then you could shorten the scout barrel, thread the the end and add a short flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:45:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:48:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:34:31 AM EDT
My M1 is well within the 2-3 MOA range. That's fine for a standard infantry rifle. I think this stock is meant to make the rifle handier for transport and use from 0-300 meters. Not so much a "battle rifle" as it is a CQG carbine/urban environment or entry type weapon. Of course there are weapons systems that are more suitable for this role. The AR15/M16 for example. But a carbine like this might have a place in the tool box. Cobbled up as it is, I'm sure that it could be sturdier if made from one piece. I think Hawk is looking in the right direction with this. Rails would be a nice addition as well.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:43:27 AM EDT
I like the concept.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 1:58:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 1:59:33 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By raf:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
www.sparrowhawkm14.com/

sparrowhawkm14.bizland.com/m14ca4bushpic.jpg

Interesting.



Whoever added the (apparently) collapsible stock to that rifle forgot that the buttstock is sometimes used as an impact weapon, and sometimes subject to being slammed against the ground to clear a jam. No room for cleaning kit, either.
If one must be able to shorten the rifle, then at least employ a sturdier folding buttstock.

Pass.



Its an M4 stock. And some of us dont subscribe to the old school it has to be fixed or a sturdy steal folder so you can buttstroke people and break down doors with your guns. Some of us want a gun that physically interacts well with body armor by shortening up the LOP.

LB-gear is for storage, and beating people and objects with your gun is a last resort. Right up there with bayonet drill.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 8:46:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 9:37:21 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 3:05:02 PM EDT
Cleaning Gear... Since the M-4 sliding stock used is made of a big hollow tube (and in this situation is not filled up with a spring & buffer) it is very possible that even more cleaning gear, or whatever, could go in this unit than the original stock.
Since I don't go into battle with my battle rifle clearing stoppages isn't a matter of life or death. Of course, I have never had a big problem with malfunctions anyway, maybe I'm not hard enough on my gear?
I think it's a pretty neat idea. I should also like to see a modification like the Cavalry Arms unit for the 870 too.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 3:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 6:54:34 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 1:50:28 PM EDT
How predictable!
You know RAF, There are lots of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing

Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:49:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:

Originally Posted By Snipermatt1:
Cleaning Gear... Since the M-4 sliding stock used is made of a big hollow tube (and in this situation is not filled up with a spring & buffer) it is very possible that even more cleaning gear, or whatever, could go in this unit than the original stock.



Maybe. Until it breaks off, and then where are you?



Since I don't go into battle with my battle rifle clearing stoppages isn't a matter of life or death.


Clearing stoppages during battle IS a matter of life-or-death.
What exactly do you do with your battle rifle? If not training for battle, then why own it? And if not training for all possible contingincies, then why bother?
You, sir, are misguided as to what ownership of a battle rifle entails.


Of course, I have never had a big problem with malfunctions anyway, maybe I'm not hard enough on my gear?



Maybe not. Nevertheless, you should train for such things. Your good luck may not last...





I think it's a pretty neat idea. I should also like to see a modification like the Cavalry Arms unit for the 870 too.



You obviously haven't met Pvt. Murphy, as is "Murphy's Law".



A little harsh, aren't you, Raf?
I don't use my "battle rifle" for battle. I use it to shoot at targets (Lord, forgive me!) as not all of us are preparing for SHTF scenarios. But besides all that the Sparrowhawk stock has a great "coolness" factor!

Link Posted: 11/16/2003 12:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 12:09:20 PM EDT by snafu]
i've never had to slam the butt of my m1as or m1s to clear a jam. in fact i've never had to clear a jam with them.

with the AR i've used that procedure and a myraid of others to clear jams.

on the M4, the collapsible stock is strong enough to put it through drywall.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:57:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Nice. I'd like to see an M14 gas cylinder with a sight base (like the M1). Then you could shorten the scout barrel, thread the the end and add a short flash suppressor.



Like the front sight on th Ruger AC556, I would buy one!
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 7:00:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:54:46 AM EDT
Isn't that the great thing about an M14/M1A, break the tube stock and still be able to shoot. Not like those weak AR's that puke the buffer everytime you break any stock (4 pos. or fixed). Just kiddin, but I personally have never seen a stock break (not saying it don't happen, just never seen it). Anyone have any test results with the buttstroke to failure #'s or reports from the field?
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 1:28:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 1:34:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
I don't use my "battle rifle" for battle. I use it to shoot at targets (Lord, forgive me!) as not all of us are preparing for SHTF scenarios.



I can think of any number of types of rifles better suited to paper-punching.
Leaving that aside, training to shoot in "SHTF" scenarios (your phrase, not mine) can only help raise one's overall level of competence.



But besides all that the Sparrowhawk stock has a great "coolness" factor!



I've nothing against a "coolness factor" (whatever that is), per se, but certainly "coolness" ought to never negatively affect reliability.



Excuse my bluntness but there may be "better" rifles suited to "paper punching" but since I OWN the M1A that is in my possession, I know you won't mind if I use it any way I want.
As for the "coolness" factor, it is cool and that's part of selling many things pertaining to rifles, battle or otherwise.

Link Posted: 11/27/2003 2:39:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 2:56:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
A little harsh, aren't you, Bill?



From time to time, I am. But I seem to remember a certain staff member that once told me (when my feelings got hurt as a ARFCOM newbie) to speak up and say what I feel. So I do!

Link Posted: 11/27/2003 3:03:04 AM EDT
Just needs THIS to make it even better



Link Posted: 11/27/2003 3:39:53 AM EDT
Hey, Lumpy, I couldn't find that RAS online at KAC. Am I dumb and just missed it? I'd like to know a price.

Link Posted: 11/27/2003 2:35:40 PM EDT
Hawk that is a cool weapon you got there sir!!!
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 4:40:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, Lumpy, I couldn't find that RAS online at KAC. Am I dumb and just missed it? I'd like to know a price.




Wes has them in his industry forum. I dont believe the final production model is available just yet. Trust me, its sweet.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 4:55:59 PM EDT
WOW, the possibilities.


An M14 with a Magpul MSS and KAC RAS!
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 10:08:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 10:08:56 AM EDT by wetidlerjr]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, Lumpy, I couldn't find that RAS online at KAC. Am I dumb and just missed it? I'd like to know a price.




Wes has them in his industry forum. I dont believe the final production model is available just yet. Trust me, its sweet.



Thanks, I'll check it out.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:23:25 AM EDT
Well guys, I broke down and bought one. Tony (the guy building them) is a great guy to deal with. Since I am in Iraq, he is even rushing my order so it will be waiting for me when I get home on R&R later this month. I will give a full report here after I test it out.

JH94
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