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Posted: 6/13/2003 7:24:37 AM EDT
my first non .22lr rifle was an ar15. i've been considering some type of .308 as my second rifle. the fals seemed interesting, but almost seemed just like a big ar. also, i wanted to get involved with optics and longer range shooting so i started looking at the .308 bolt rifles. basically the deer guns and the lightweight tactical rifles.

not long ago i saw the m14, which i understand is lighter and shorter than the m1, and thought it might be a good choice. i'm still trying to sort through the differences and the options, and i was wondering if there was any advice you could share.

i'd like an accurate shooter in the 1500.00 range. reasons i like the m series...the well worn wood stocks. historical aspect, semi-auto,...and becasue they seem liek well designed rifles with a strong following. i'm thinking parts should be readily available.

what are some of the pitfalls and unexpected differences i may encounter?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 1:10:10 PM EDT
r-baiter,
m-14=auto/select fire, M1A=semiauto. What would be your primary use of the rifle? If wanting an M1A, an early model(read preban) with all USGI parts would be the most desired. Rifle design is very reliable and durable. You could spend $$$$-$$$$$ to tweek out a very accurate long range heavier than lead rifle or get a M1A "Bush" or "Scout" which would be much lighter and eaiser to manuver with. Parts and mags are relatively easy to get. If you like the ergonomics of the AR15, you might want to handle an Armalite AR10 (.308 in carbine and full size). Most M1A's will give you 1.5 to 2 MOA out of the box. Narrow down your wants/needs and repost for more specifics.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 1:48:11 PM EDT
racebaiter:
I have to agree with Raskil.308 caliber gets much respect also.I have 2 of everything.2 AR15's,2 M1A's,2 1911's,2 Beretta's,2 Ruger MKII's,2 10-22's,etc.

Gotta start something on who has the most toys.

For close range and tight sittuations I like the AR15 (espesially carbines).You can change calibers also.

Keep in mind also.Can you get parts?? For M14,M1A's you can.Can you replace or install parts if needed?? You could on a M1A with some practice.Magazines are also cheaper for M1A's I think.

I have AR15's for close work while my M1A's can reach out and touch something with plenty of punch.

If you get a M1A,try to get one with USGI parts for worry free shooting.

Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:02:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 3:12:16 PM EDT by racebaiter]
thanks for the info guys. i do appreciate it...especially since i don't know anyone in person that has either. and i've already found that the m14 v m1a thing is confusing me. from what both of you wrote, it sounds as if they are the same rifles aside from the auto/select option on the m14. is this true??

from what i had read about historical aspects and development, i got the impression there were bigger differences between them...including 20 round mags and different loading method, chrome lined barell, and other supposed improvements. also, i've seen people selling semi-auto m-14's. are they jsut using the terms interchangably?

in that case, it seems as if the only real m-14s would be class iii. and i doubt i'd want to pay premium. my limited experience with auto .308 is that i am not particularly good at controlling it after the first couple shots. in a rifle like the m14, im not sure i'd be able to justify any extra for that or collector value.

should i really be looking for an m1a???
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 7:15:37 PM EDT
Only if you want a reliable/dependable classic style battle rifle which can be used for target/hunting/homeland security, and something you could also handdown some day. 20rd mags are still fairly easy to get ($30-60 each-don't get the cheep ones!)and the rifle is fun to shoot. You can get the standard model -blued w/walnut stock around $1100 (chrome-lined bbl). The "scout" and "bush" models are a little more right now. You can get .308 mil surplus ammo fairly cheap. If I got one, I would keep (but) replace the walnut stock with a syn (but not from SA, their paint process sucks) from an aftermarket source for less than $30. Just repaint the stock yourself if needed. This would protect the wood and give it the historical aspect should you ever display it or pass it down. Check out springfield-armory.com, also chck out gunbrocker.com [firearms(modern)] then search "M1A" for views/info on different models. On the second page, 1/3 down, there are some listed by a user "haveguns" in Aubrey, TX. Good guy to contact when you're ready, fair/honest dealing. Since your not in CA, you can get the standard flash suppressor (no pistol grip on the M1A so you're still under the "evil" limit). The "loaded" packages aren't realy that good, don't get the Springfield scope or the 3rd gen mount!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:45:22 AM EDT
There are only a couple dozen M14 rifles outside of the military and they're very expensive. Select fire M1A rifles are the price of a good used car. Old soldiers like me use the term M14 for the genre including the semiautomatic versions. M1A is a Springfield Armory Inc. trademark and some other semi rifles use M14 in their names. If you can afford a select fire version go for it. Doesn' shoot AUTO worth anything, but the value is out pacing the Dow.

Semiautomatic M1A or other M14 clone is a very nice rifle. The M14 was my first military rifle in the service and I carried one daily for two years. Just feels right with a walnut stock.

The M14 system was derived from the M1 and is actually slightly longer but is lighter. You can go even lighter and shorter with a short barrel version of either. The feel is the same but they're much handier. I have one of each.

Since "Match" M1 or M14 is pretty much an oxymoron now that the M16 rules these matches, I prefer the USGI parts and barrels for reliability and ruggedness.

Good surplus 7.62mm NATO ammo is sometimes down to a dime a round, so these are inexpensive to shoot. I likes shooting my shorty M1 Garand so much I had it rebarrelled to 7.62mm. 8 round clip isn't as handy as a 20 round magazine, though.

A good M1A should be closer to $1000 than $1500. "Loaded" is what Springfield Inc. calls rifles after they ran out of USGI parts, try for a USGI chrome lined barrel. Most of the other stuff interchanges with the M14.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 6:32:11 AM EDT
thanks guys. i am trying to get up to speed with this and do appreciate all of the thoughts and info.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 10:19:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 10:20:42 AM EDT by Delta324]
I have carried and fired the M14 for many years throughout the Corps. I also own a M14 w/Match grade barrel and walnut stock; would love to get Carlo's WhiteFeather for sure. The M14 is virtually the best Main Battle Rifle out and on the market -- yes it's price is a bit higher, but you get what you pay for with an M14. Don't go with a Scout or any custom shorter models unless accuracy and range do not matter to you. Otherwise, if you want to go to a cheaper 308 alternative, the FAL is readily available for less - you get what you pay for and can use the argument that 90 countries use the FAL; but it doesn't compare as well to the M14. Consider reading Boston Tea Party's "Gun Bible" .. it does a far comparison of the two, and the M14 takes the lead hands down. Good luck in your choice!
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 10:17:29 PM EDT
"SECOND" rifle??? I'd reach for an M1A/M14 before my AR!
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 4:04:36 AM EDT
The M14 was my first love, and I still remember her fondly, but for normal combat range shooting she's too big, heavy, and the ammunition lacks the wounding potential of 5.56mm M193 or M855 Ball, and especially the XM cartridges currently under development.

If we all felt the same way about things, however, there'd be little to talk about.

I'd not hesitate to grab a M14 out of the rack in a moment of crisis, but only if I couldn't reach a M4A1 or M16A3.

If I knew the bad guys would never get closer than 500 meters and I didn't have to hump the ammo the M14 would be the first choice. But 500 meters is well beyond normal engagement ranges with the rifle.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 10:32:05 AM EDT
I have 2 M1A's. A preban and a postban and love them both. The M14 was the first rifle I have ever fired. The ergonmics of the rifle and the wood and steel is truely gratifying.

The standard rifle is more than enough for most. For 1100 or so, can get you a great rifle. You will still have money to buy mags. Cole's Distributing is the best place to get them.

Yes the rifle is heavy, but most shooters do not hump their rifle to the range. I drive and bring my gear in a bag.

A 24 mile hump with a M16 is not too bad. But with a M14 with 6 loaded mags and spare ammo, that would be heavy.

I have messed with the idea of getting a FAL, but every time I have shot one or handled one, I did not like it.

I'll stick to American made Ar15s or M1As.




max
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 11:14:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2003 11:16:25 AM EDT by Different]
This is where it's at. Ignore the M82A1 Barrett .50 BMG semi-automatic rifle in the back ground.

Link Posted: 7/10/2003 2:56:19 PM EDT
I must say...going to the range with my Armscorp NM M14.....there are generally quite a few guys there firing their AR's (Pap, Pap, Pap...) OK, cool. I unlimber this MBR in 7.62 and you hear WHAM, WHAM, WHAM......at 200 or 300 yards, and the range gets real quiet...folks start to drift over and I end up letting em' play with this puppy. Guess I ought to start bringing more ammo.......
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 12:57:23 PM EDT
M14/M1A....great second, third and fourth gun... hell I used to own four; now I just have three.

buy one and come over to the dark side. They are fun.

In the real world (you live in CA) you can still find pre bans for around a $1000.00 here in Ohio.
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