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Those raids are the only reason I abstained from ordering a kit when I decided to do a F1 can. Not ordering all the parts first, either, before I get the Form 1 back - I don't trust the "it's not drilled out yet, and I have no way of doing so personally" defense to hold water with them anymore. I've got the paperwork drafted up and ready to go, I'm just waiting for my fingerprint cards to get here from them so I can roll my prints and send it in.
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Quoted: Those raids are the only reason I abstained from ordering a kit when I decided to do a F1 can. Not ordering all the parts first, either, before I get the Form 1 back - I don't trust the "it's not drilled out yet, and I have no way of doing so personally" defense to hold water with them anymore. I've got the paperwork drafted up and ready to go, I'm just waiting for my fingerprint cards to get here from them so I can roll my prints and send it in. FATF View Quote DM takes so long to ship you'll get your F1 back before you get the parts. It's a feature not a big type thing. |
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I'm sure it's been pondered elsewhere.
My total guess which is worth what you paid for it is DM got their peepee slapped over the monocores. New product comes out, dick slap handed out. I'm not so sure about the center markings, those are on plenty of other designs that are still allowed, but who knows. So how in the world was Quietbore able to get raided- and they were anything but subtle about what their product was, including sending drawings of traps made into cans on stickers telling you how quiet they are- and in no time flat they're actually able to advertise what they are selling as form 1 parts and kits? I know they are asking for a copy of the approved f1 first now, but how are they the only group in the industry dropping the solvent trap pretense AFTER an ATF bust? On another tangent, how would they ever even begin to validate if the f1 you sent was legitimate, and even if it wasn't as long as you didn't drill it- or sold it to someone else- nothing illegal would have been done anyway. I remember the government wasting no time telling us they could not publicly verify if the Richmond shooter a few years ago had a legal stamp or not because it was "privileged tax information". Obviously if your (unconstitutional and ridiculously legislated) ducks are in a row you have nothing to fear anyway as there is nothing illegal about making a trap into a can, but what in the world is the angle there? Just being able to avoid speaking in code is a massive business advantage for them when it comes to advertising. And even more seriously, if you're a competent machinist and could turn out even a decent trap design, you could make bank right now. And yes, I know the real answer is that the ATF makes it up as they go and they have no oversight but still, weirdness all around all of a sudden. |
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Quoted: I'm sure it's been pondered elsewhere. Obviously if your (unconstitutional and ridiculously legislated) ducks are in a row you have nothing to fear anyway as there is nothing illegal about making a trap into a can, but what in the world is the angle there? Just being able to avoid speaking in code is a massive business advantage for them when it comes to advertising. And even more seriously, if you're a competent machinist and could turn out even a decent trap design, you could make bank right now. And yes, I know the real answer is that the ATF makes it up as they go and they have no oversight but still, weirdness all around all of a sudden. View Quote Discretionary interpretation in the context of "constructive intent" will always land you on the losing side of the argument. |
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Quoted: Quoted: It's not about the hardware, it's about cracking down on the sorts of people selling and buying it. The objects are just an excuse, and they'll find others as needed. It's about building lists... You're already on a list if you filed a F1 to build it. |
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Quoted: I was going to do a form 1 silencer, but with the current situation going on, I think I will destroy the kit I have coming and just forget about it. The current climate has me worried where things are going to lead. View Quote PLEASE dont do that!! That is exactly what they want. Intimidation. Nothing they do will hold up in court and they know it. Just counting on people like you to fold. Please STAND. Proper form 1 should be FINE! |
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Quoted: PLEASE dont do that!! That is exactly what they want. Intimidation. Nothing they do will hold up in court and they know it. Just counting on people like you to fold. Please STAND. Proper form 1 should be FINE! View Quote |
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Quoted: Waiting on mine ( form 1 ) to come back and a kit from DM here fortunately. Took a while but made it. View Quote Same. Form 1'ed near the end of October a DM kit I bought almost a year ago. But I am stuck in "Pending Research" still even though I thought I did all the secret handshake bullshit required to skip that but I guess not. Just want a Form 1 in hand if/when Mr. ATF knocks on my door. |
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Quoted: Same. Form 1'ed near the end of October a DM kit I bought almost a year ago. But I am stuck in "Pending Research" still even though I thought I did all the secret handshake bullshit required to skip that but I guess not. Just want a Form 1 in hand if/when Mr. ATF knocks on my door. View Quote You have a non firearm item, and don't have an approve Fm1, and are worried the ATF will come knocking? Geez, people have become brainwashed at the very same moment of complaining about people being brainwashed. If the ATF bashed down doors of people who were 1) prohibited from firearms, 2) bought a kit, 3) and did not fill out a Fm1, would anyone care if the ATF did that? If you are 100% legal, then why would you be worried? Makes no sense. They raided the source, which by very nature removes 1-2-3 above (and you) from the chain, etc. The legalities of which will be upheld by the phukked courts, plain 'n simple. |
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Quoted: You have a non firearm item, and don't have an approve Fm1, and are worried the ATF will come knocking? Geez, people have become brainwashed at the very same moment of complaining about people being brainwashed. If the ATF bashed down doors of people who were 1) prohibited from firearms, 2) bought a kit, 3) and did not fill out a Fm1, would anyone care if the ATF did that? If you are 100% legal, then why would you be worried? Makes no sense. They raided the source, which by very nature removes 1-2-3 above (and you) from the chain, etc. The legalities of which will be upheld by the phukked courts, plain 'n simple. View Quote That is a cool story, brethren. You obviously care much more then I do judging from your response. Care to share with the class what's got you all hot and bothered? EDIT: Ah, December 2020 join date and already over 900 posts. Well that explains it. lol |
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Quoted: Same. Form 1'ed near the end of October a DM kit I bought almost a year ago. But I am stuck in "Pending Research" still even though I thought I did all the secret handshake bullshit required to skip that but I guess not. Just want a Form 1 in hand if/when Mr. ATF knocks on my door. View Quote Usually those pending research hangups are like "oops we forgot about that" and clear up within hours of being contacted about. |
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Quoted: That is a cool story, brethren. You obviously care much more then I do judging from your response. Care to share with the class what's got you all hot and bothered? EDIT: Ah, December 2020 join date and already over 900 posts. Well that explains it. lol View Quote Not really my 1st rodeo here, so don't let join dates & post count mean something to you, it doesn't. I am no fan (zero nada zilch) of any govt agency having BS regulatory discretionary interpretation powers over their own BS wordsmithing, and then the courts uphold the BS. And neither should anyone else for that matter. It's like saying "I dunno what that means, if 4+4=8, better ask who wrote it", so you ask and get an answer like "well, if it's close to 8 then you can't do that". If only ATF would use proper phukking English in the BS ink they put on paper! Everything they write, from the regulations, to responses, to the forms they create, is convoluted junk. It should be mandated by law that BS regulatory agencies like ATF have a English professor on fed payroll to review all the crap that the agency writes, and then correct it to make sense. Heck, pick a subject that typically has a common question with it, I dunno, something around NFA item, then call 12 different ATF offices around the country and see that you get 12 different answers, or they refer you off to a # in VA. Are they not supposed to be competent in what they do, using their own crap verbiage they have inked? I'm sorry, did you have a question? |
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Quoted: I did. Twice. Both netted the "Pending Research is 90 days" auto response. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Have you "asked an expert?" Usually those pending research hangups are like "oops we forgot about that" and clear up within hours of being contacted about. I did. Twice. Both netted the "Pending Research is 90 days" auto response. |
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Quoted: Not really my 1st rodeo here, so don't let join dates & post count mean something to you, it doesn't. I am no fan (zero nada zilch) of any govt agency having BS regulatory discretionary interpretation powers over their own BS wordsmithing, and then the courts uphold the BS. And neither should anyone else for that matter. It's like saying "I dunno what that means, if 4+4=8, better ask who wrote it", so you ask and get an answer like "well, if it's close to 8 then you can't do that". If only ATF would use proper phukking English in the BS ink they put on paper! Everything they write, from the regulations, to responses, to the forms they create, is convoluted junk. It should be mandated by law that BS regulatory agencies like ATF have a English professor on fed payroll to review all the crap that the agency writes, and then correct it to make sense. Heck, pick a subject that typically has a common question with it, I dunno, something around NFA item, then call 12 different ATF offices around the country and see that you get 12 different answers, or they refer you off to a # in VA. Are they not supposed to be competent in what they do, using their own crap verbiage they have inked? I'm sorry, did you have a question? View Quote Serious question: Have you ever suspected that you might have, or have been diagnosed with, schizophrenia? Because in one reply you call me brainwashed for worrying about having a DM kit without an approved Form 1 and in the next reply you tell me you hate the ATF because they make up the legality rulings as they go along. Lets not even get into your logic surrounding the "They raided DM so obviously your safe, bro." comment. |
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Quoted: Not really my 1st rodeo here, so don't let join dates & post count mean something to you, it doesn't. I am no fan (zero nada zilch) of any govt agency having BS regulatory discretionary interpretation powers over their own BS wordsmithing, and then the courts uphold the BS. And neither should anyone else for that matter. It's like saying "I dunno what that means, if 4+4=8, better ask who wrote it", so you ask and get an answer like "well, if it's close to 8 then you can't do that". If only ATF would use proper phukking English in the BS ink they put on paper! Everything they write, from the regulations, to responses, to the forms they create, is convoluted junk. It should be mandated by law that BS regulatory agencies like ATF have a English professor on fed payroll to review all the crap that the agency writes, and then correct it to make sense. Heck, pick a subject that typically has a common question with it, I dunno, something around NFA item, then call 12 different ATF offices around the country and see that you get 12 different answers, or they refer you off to a # in VA. Are they not supposed to be competent in what they do, using their own crap verbiage they have inked? I'm sorry, did you have a question? View Quote "Not really my 1st rodeo here, so don't let join dates & post count mean something to you" If it isn't your "first rodeo" then you'd know nonsense posts like this have no place in the tech forums..... |
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Quoted: Has anyone heard any news on this? View Quote Some guys on the other form1 board set up a fund for him but they haven't posted any updates. I'm still thinking that if you had an outstanding order with him, or if you ordered in the past that you'll hear from the boogey men in the future. |
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Quoted: Some guys on the other form1 board set up a fund for him but they haven't posted any updates. I'm still thinking that if you had an outstanding order with him, or if you ordered in the past that you'll hear from the boogey men in the future. View Quote So, will they make an appointment so I can show them the approved stamps and cans like should happen, or Felony stop me while I am driving home and burn my house down with my wife and kids trapped inside like they normally do? Whoops, forgot shoot the dog and rape the cat too. FFS the shit law abiding people have to worry about |
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Quoted: So, will they make an appointment so I can show them the approved stamps and cans like should happen, or Felony stop me while I am driving home and burn my house down with my wife and kids trapped inside like they normally do? Whoops, forgot shoot the dog and rape the cat too. FFS the shit law abiding people have to worry about View Quote There is, at best, a 50/50 chance that showing an approved F1 will suffice. If an item is declared contraband, you can't legally register it....approved F1 or not... just ask all the SOT's who registered their Tommybuilt T-36's as MG's on F2's, and still have to surrender/return/destroy them |
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Quoted: There is, at best, a 50/50 chance that showing an approved F1 will suffice. If an item is declared contraband, you can't legally register it....approved F1 or not... just ask all the SOT's who registered their Tommybuilt T-36's as MG's on F2's, and still have to surrender/return/destroy them View Quote Well fuck Okay, they can have it all back, just no sodomy, and let me keep my fucking lathe! |
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Quoted: Well fuck Okay, they can have it all back, just no sodomy, and let me keep my fucking lathe! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: There is, at best, a 50/50 chance that showing an approved F1 will suffice. If an item is declared contraband, you can't legally register it....approved F1 or not... just ask all the SOT's who registered their Tommybuilt T-36's as MG's on F2's, and still have to surrender/return/destroy them Well fuck Okay, they can have it all back, just no sodomy, and let me keep my fucking lathe! You guys are winding up BigPolska without reason. BP: their “investigation” will not go on forever. Chances are they have all they need; remember - he is the target (not you). If they are going to ask for items back from you, chances are they will do it sooner rather than later. You have done nothing wrong; you have an F1. IF they bother contacting you, just give them the single piece they want. But I doubt they will bother, asking for things back since you Have an approved F1 |
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Quoted: You guys are winding up BigPolska without reason. BP: their “investigation” will not go on forever. Chances are they have all they need; remember - he is the target (not you). If they are going to ask for items back from you, chances are they will do it sooner rather than later. You have done nothing wrong; you have an F1. IF they bother contacting you, just give them the single piece they want. But I doubt they will bother, asking for things back since you Have an approved F1 View Quote |
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The DM GoFundMe thread over at the F1 Suppressor forum was updated with the text below:
Update, March 6, 2021: I spoke with Chris today for the first time in 2021. Not a whole lot has changed, unfortunately. He has secured an attorney. They have filed legal forms to have his assets returned, but are being stonewalled. He’s not been charged with a crime. There’s no court date. ATF is not communicating with them at all. Guys, it’s totally clear what is going on here. Same thing as what happened with Totality and Aegis. These jerks go in and take everything in hopes that you’ll just write it all off and move on. And you know what? Not many people want to fight the federal government in court, so that’s exactly what happens! Every time this happens, it becomes easier and more “normal” for it to happen again. Chris tells me he is going to continue fighting this. Says he is going to fight it, even if it’s the last thing he ever does! He thoroughly enjoys, and is very passionate about what he did for the F1 community. He has continued doing other machine work to pay the bills, but nothing near what he was turning out prior to the raid. One thing I wanted to determine was whether to keep the GFM going on his behalf, being unsure whether what I am doing is even the right thing. Chris assured me that every little bit helps, and he’s very thankful for what donations he has already received! I have not yet withdrawn any funds because he had no way of receiving them from me. He and I decided that sending a check directly to his attorney is the best course of action. So for those of you who have asked if there is a way to send funds directly to him without using GFM, yes there is. Message me and I’ll get you his attorney’s information. For those of you who HAVE donated, THANK YOU! All donations will be sent in check form by me, to his attorney, and go towards his fight against the injustice against him and the F1 community. View Quote |
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Quoted: The DM GoFundMe thread over at the F1 Suppressor forum was updated with the text below: View Quote He had six+ months to deliver “in stock” product before he got raided and didn’t respond to multiple calls and emails. That’s about as much GoFundMe as he will get out of me. Now I gotta find a new source for parts to build my Form 1s. |
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Quoted: He had six+ months to deliver "in stock" product before he got raided and didn't respond to multiple calls and emails. That's about as much GoFundMe as he will get out of me. Now I gotta find a new source for parts to build my Form 1s. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The DM GoFundMe thread over at the F1 Suppressor forum was updated with the text below: He had six+ months to deliver "in stock" product before he got raided and didn't respond to multiple calls and emails. That's about as much GoFundMe as he will get out of me. Now I gotta find a new source for parts to build my Form 1s. |
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Quoted: He had six+ months to deliver “in stock” product before he got raided and didn’t respond to multiple calls and emails. That’s about as much GoFundMe as he will get out of me. Now I gotta find a new source for parts to build my Form 1s. View Quote I didn't donate anything since it took over a month and a CC charge back to get a shipping number out of him over a year ago. I merely mentioned it because that's the source of the info and said info mentions donations. |
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it is very possible that, in attempts to help customers with warranty work (a misaligned mount leading to a a baffle strike for example) that he took possession of a legally registered suppressor, fixed it, and sent it back. Well meaning, right thing to do, and super illegal if you're not an SOT. And I don't think he was.
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Quoted: it is very possible that, in attempts to help customers with warranty work (a misaligned mount leading to a a baffle strike for example) that he took possession of a legally registered suppressor, fixed it, and sent it back. Well meaning, right thing to do, and super illegal if you're not an SOT. And I don't think he was. View Quote Well...that would be a big NO-NO. Is that what happened? Do you know, first hand, if that is what happened? Also, looks like AlterEgo2 has been banned...probably got the “you seem familiar” loving by the mods. Attached File |
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My best guess is the way he center marked cups and caps was pushing it a little too far and just the excuse the ATF needed to dig into the guy.
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Quoted: it is very possible that, in attempts to help customers with warranty work (a misaligned mount leading to a a baffle strike for example) that he took possession of a legally registered suppressor, fixed it, and sent it back. Well meaning, right thing to do, and super illegal if you're not an SOT. And I don't think he was. View Quote He couldn't even find the time to ship "in stock" items for months or respond to customers at all. That he would have the time to take customers cans and fix them, especially knowing how highly illegal it is, is laughable. |
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Quoted: Well...that would be a big NO-NO. Is that what happened? Do you know, first hand, if that is what happened? View Quote I have no knowledge of why he got shut down. [ And even if I did, I would not incriminate anybody on a public forum. ] But I did talk to him a couple years ago when I built my form 1(s). Nice guy. seemed helpful, my kind of people. And people like that might be willing to bend the rules a little to help you out. And if the ATF was looking for any excuse to shut you down, it seems like a plausible explanation. I've been fired myself for for a similar concept in an entirely different industry. |
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Quoted: My best guess is the way he center marked cups and caps was pushing it a little too far and just the excuse the ATF needed to dig into the guy. View Quote Possible, but definitely not the whole story. If it was just centermarks, the ATF would've made it clear. DM would've said, ok we'll stop using those. Production would've resumed w/in a couple weeks. |
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Quoted: Possible, but definitely not the whole story. If it was just centermarks, the ATF would've made it clear. DM would've said, ok we'll stop using those. Production would've resumed w/in a couple weeks. View Quote That would require DM to actually have responded to something in a timely fashion and the ATF to be magnanimous enough to give him fair warning. For what it's worth, DM's centermarks were very close to being legit holes, as in, you could see daylight through some of the parts. Not large enough for a bullet to pass through but it could have been enough for the ATF to come down without a warning. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You guys are winding up BigPolska without reason. BP: their “investigation” will not go on forever. Chances are they have all they need; remember - he is the target (not you). If they are going to ask for items back from you, chances are they will do it sooner rather than later. You have done nothing wrong; you have an F1. IF they bother contacting you, just give them the single piece they want. But I doubt they will bother, asking for things back since you Have an approved F1 Just wanted to let you guys know the cat is still unraped and the dog is unshot. Glad I had a brace of approved form 1s before purchasing. Still doesn't make any sense, but when the government is making the rules up as they go, then following the rules like I did is for chumps anyways |
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