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Even though the msrp is a touch high on these , I'm bit more excited to see this platform, even though the mp5 has its own gravity that pulls me. With HK killing the oem mfg of the platform I'm not too interested in putting money into the dated gun. This I feel is gonna be a great alternative with alot more modern options for mods. I do wish the barrel length would come in a 7inch but im sure they will probably offer a few more mag and barrel configs later on.
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I want to see a direct comparison between the B&T APC9 and this. I do not want to hear from AR15 Internet critics that are destructive critics. it takes brains to be a constructive critic and NONE to be a destructive one. View Quote The B&T is straight blowback and will get walked all over by this. |
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Quoted: A better comparison would be btwn this, the other roller delayed AR PCC upper, the CMMG radial delayed AR PCC upper, and an MP5. The B&T is straight blowback and will get walked all over by this. View Quote I'm personally liking what I'm seeing in the MEAN Arms setup the most. It looks like it will match the CMMG RDB in terms of modularity. Standard uppers, rails etc...I'm hoping they have no ejector spring issues like I've had with the CMMG RDB. |
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Quoted: A better comparison would be btwn this, the other roller delayed AR PCC upper, the CMMG radial delayed AR PCC upper, and an MP5. The B&T is straight blowback and will get walked all over by this. View Quote |
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Quoted: If im not mistaken the cmmg is a radial delayed not a roller but i don't have enough experience in either platform but I have heard a true roller is better. View Quote Both have unique strengths and weaknesses though obviously. Wouldn’t say one is necessarily better than the other as it depends on the user’s needs. |
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+1.... I'm personally liking what I'm seeing in the MEAN Arms setup the most. It looks like it will match the CMMG RDB in terms of modularity. Standard uppers, rails etc...I'm hoping they have no ejector spring issues like I've had with the CMMG RDB. View Quote |
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I went diggin my self and more info to be seen on their facebook page but not a ton. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Is there any more in-depth info in the mean arms roller delayed upper? I saw it on IG but haven't found anything further. Someone also posted a Youtube link at the bottom of that thread also. |
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https://i.ibb.co/nM5J9gv/Glock-mag-master-race.jpg I would have Zero interest in this or any other new PCC if it didn't take Glock mags. Having to buy 20x new, proprietary mags for each new PCC sucks. Standardization is a good thing, and for the US market, the Glock mag is the "AR magazine" of 9x19 polymer mags. Available everywhere from multiple manufacturers, and cross compatible with multiple platforms. Glock mag cross-compatibility: -Glock handguns -MPA Defender MAC -Kel Tec Sub 2000 -Ruger PCC9 -Multiple AR15 PCC's -CMMG Banshee -B&T APC9 Pro -Angstadt MDP-9 -Soon: Stribog w/ aftermarket lower Now if we could just get a Glock mag compatible Scorpion lower.... View Quote |
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The glock mag angle is not doing it for me. View Quote I prefer my custom build using MP5 mags. Attached File |
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Some more pictures and info. TFB Link https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/DSC_0147.jpg https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/DSC_0153.jpg View Quote |
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^^ THIS ^^ I prefer my custom build using MP5 mags. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/491499/58F3D76C-C3E9-4014-B5FD-ACF5A9086528_jpe-1247016.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The glock mag angle is not doing it for me. I prefer my custom build using MP5 mags. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/491499/58F3D76C-C3E9-4014-B5FD-ACF5A9086528_jpe-1247016.JPG |
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Quoted: A better comparison would be btwn this, the other roller delayed AR PCC upper, the CMMG radial delayed AR PCC upper, and an MP5. The B&T is straight blowback and will get walked all over by this. View Quote |
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Quoted: I know the MP5 is a soft shooter, but what is the MP5K like? I always hear it isn’t as soft a shooter as the full size MP5? This MDP-9 is more like the MP5K in size? It seems like they developed this for overall size, to get rid of the buffer tube. Not sure they were going for a full size MP5 type experience. I wonder how far this is actually off from the APC9? View Quote This Angstadt bolt looks very light, traveling the same distance as an AR upper receiver. Granted they had the constraint of trying to fit it directly onto an AR-type lower but I'm very curious to see what the recoil impulse feels like. My guess it's similar to the MP5K. |
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I'm getting PCC'ed out, if I got frequent flyer miles for filing Form 1s from the ATF I could fly to the moon and back for free, not a brace fan. You guys buy
the newest PCC and I fall into the trap and have to have it. |
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Quoted: If you’re paying $70 for these mags you’re doing it wrong. View Quote Your build is very nice but I find the MP5 mag lower to be the least desirable configuration for an AR in 9mm. I would rank Glock, Colt, Scorpion, and Endomags all ahead of it. |
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Honestly for that kind of money I think od rather have a banshee and $1000 worth of 9mm or an apc9k. I know the apc is blow back but the recoil is still very manageable and the build quality is amazing. I'd say HK SP5 but it might as well be vaporware unless you're willing to pay $1000 above MSRP....which I'm not.
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I'm glad the price will keep away all the ignorant poors so they can never experience the MDP9. Bravo AA, bravo... (starts slow clap)
And to think I almost bought an SP5 or APC9 knowing full well they were NOT everything I wanted. I have spent months waiting for an A3 Stribog to be approved for import. But the MDP9 is... well... everything. Its is an MP5K barreled action, stripped of weight, with integral MLOK and picatinny top rail, fully ambi, with LRBHO, takes virtually any stock/brace, any AR trigger, any AR grip, and comes ready for Glock mags but takes any 9mm lower and mags? There is litterally nothing to hate. The answer to all prayers. Ran like a top at Shot Show. If production guns are that good... people using other PCC will be like the people who use AKs and SKS instead of ARs. And at 3.6 pounds? None of the PCC do that weight. Thats crazy. |
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But the MDP9 is... well... everything. Its is an MP5K barreled action, stripped of weight, with integral MLOK and picatinny top rail, fully ambi, with LRBHO, takes virtually any stock/brace, any AR trigger, any AR grip, and comes ready for Glock mags but takes any 9mm lower and mags? There is litterally nothing to hate. The answer to all prayers. View Quote Looking at the pictures, I see two buttons on the right side. I presume one is to release the bolt but don't know if you can lock the bolt back from the right side. So that is a negative to me if you can't do that. I know I'm in the minority here but I want to be able to tune the full auto cyclic rate by taking advantage of flat springs and hydraulic buffers available for the standard AR platform. Not just for full auto though. Being able to swap out the buffer and spring can greatly change the guns recoil impulse and new products are always coming out for the AR platform that can be leveraged. I'm looking forward to the Mean Arms Roller delayed setup over the Angstadt MDP9 for more modularity / compatibility with other AR parts. The Mean Arms proprietary parts are only the BCG and Barrel so sky's the limit on tuning and utilizing all other aftermarket AR parts....I can see people adapting the Mean Arms roller delayed to work with Glock, Colt, MP5 and Scorpion mags...similar to what people are doing with the CMMG RDB. However, if you are not interested in those capabilities and features, I can certainly see the appeal of the Angstadt MDP9. |
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Not mine. Uses proprietary upper and handguards....so single source for those parts. Probably can't tune it either. Looking at the pictures, I see two buttons on the right side. I presume one is to release the bolt but don't know if you can lock the bolt back from the right side. So that is a negative to me if you can't do that. View Quote The main difference is that this one has a folding stock and is lighter. The whole point of roller lock is that you don't need as much mass to keep the whole thing together, so you can have a lighter gun. This uses a standard AR lower, so all the mag compatibility would be the same. You have more choice in the stock (you can put the same buffer tube on and have all the choices of AR stock, plus the picatinny can mount MCX/MPX stocks. There's also a picatinny ACR stock adapter out there) You have the exact same choice of trigger, magazine, grip, mag release, bolt release, optics, doodads on the handguard, and muzzle devices as on a 9mm AR. The only difference is that if M-LOK fell out of favour then you're stuck, but given m-lok just kicked keymod's butt, I don't see that happening any time soon. From where I'm standing, the only disadvantage the MDP has is the price. |
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Does the MEAN arms one not use a proprietary upper? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes SHOT show 2020: MEAN Arms MA915 Upper Receiver The main difference is that this one has a folding stock and is lighter. The whole point of roller lock is that you don't need as much mass to keep the whole thing together, so you can have a lighter gun. This uses a standard AR lower, so all the mag compatibility would be the same. From where I'm standing, the only disadvantage the MDP has is the price. |
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If MEAN arms roller delyed action is so great, why didnt they let people shoot it on day 1 range day at SHOT Show?
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If MEAN arms roller delyed action is so great, why didnt they let people shoot it on day 1 range day at SHOT Show? View Quote
On the flip side, Angstadt Arms has to make a whole new upper receiver and rail as well as other parts. They don't have the luxury of just sourcing any old upper or rail from the 100's of sources out there. |
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Excited to see when the secondary companies get ahold of the tech and cut the price in half, which is where this should be to begin with. More for an upper than a new PWS Mod2 costs is the stupidest thing I've heard.
The damn LWRC is starting to look more appealing the more I look at this overpriced Stribog bastard child. Edit. Also, it doesn't say it's compatible with any standard lower. It has a note on the home page that reads "A list of additional 3rd party compatible AR-9 receivers will be provided in the future." I'd be in at $750 for an upper if it worked with the pending PSA or NFA Scorpion mag lowers. |
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Excited to see when the secondary companies get ahold of the tech and cut the price in half, which is where this should be to begin with. More for an upper than a new PWS Mod2 costs is the stupidest thing I've heard. The damn LWRC is starting to look more appealing the more I look at this overpriced Stribog bastard child. Edit. Also, it doesn't say it's compatible with any standard lower. It has a note on the home page that reads "A list of additional 3rd party compatible AR-9 receivers will be provided in the future." I'd be in at $750 for an upper if it worked with the pending PSA or NFA Scorpion mag lowers. View Quote |
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Quoted: You are dreaming if you think this upper should cost $750 with the investment they made in development. This isn't just another 9mm AR. It's expensive but it's the first real approach to combining an AR with a MP5. View Quote CMMG says hello. |
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At their current MSRP, they must be planning on recouping all of their R&D costs on the first 100 guns sold. Or, you know, because math, they could lower the price, sell a lot more, and recoup the cost across more units while also expanding their market presence and brand awareness. CMMG says hello. View Quote I own the CMMG and while it’s an improvement over standard blowback there is still room for it to be better and less finicky. I’ve shelved the AR in 9mm and will be shooting the MP5 until something that can mimic the MP5 operation is available in the AR platform with modularity and ergonomics. |
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I own the CMMG and while it’s an improvement over standard blowback there is still room for it to be better and less finicky. I’ve shelved the AR in 9mm and will be shooting the MP5 until something that can mimic the MP5 operation is available in the AR platform with modularity and ergonomics. View Quote |
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While the stribog is pretty soft shooting for a blowback gun its nowhere near as soft as an mp5.
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While the stribog is pretty soft shooting for a blowback gun its nowhere near as soft as an mp5. View Quote Stribog SP9A1 is the straight blowback version that is currently available here in the USA. The SP9A3 will eat the AA MDP-9's lunch and dinner money. |
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SP9A3 is not 3.6 pounds. It will never compete with tbe MDP9 directly. It is a larger and heavier gun. It will not run any AR lower parts you want, etc. It wont have as little recoil without a brake.
Noveske sold some reasonable quality match barrels for ARs and some rails, etc. Nothing special that needed a range day to prove anything. Well there was ONE gas block that didnt sell sell enough to stay in production due to... a lack of proof to the average consumer it worked as advertised. When you say you have a roller delay system that cuts recoil in half with less weight you need to have a range day to prove it. Its one of the few times you NEED a range day. New binary trigger that claims to run flawlessly? Needs a range day. New rail system? Does not need a range day. Prefit match barrel? Does not need a range day. Double stack magazine fed shotgun that will run slugs, buckshot, or birdshot on one setting and claims lower recoil than an 1100? Going to need a range day. |
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Noveske sold some reasonable quality match barrels for ARs and some rails, etc. Nothing special that needed a range day to prove anything. Well there was ONE gas block that didnt sell sell enough to stay in production due to... a lack of proof to the average consumer it worked as advertised. When you say you have a roller delay system that cuts recoil in half with less weight you need to have a range day to prove it. Its one of the few times you NEED a range day. New binary trigger that claims to run flawlessly? Needs a range day. New rail system? Does not need a range day. Prefit match barrel? Does not need a range day. Double stack magazine fed shotgun that will run slugs, buckshot, or birdshot on one setting and claims lower recoil than an 1100? Going to need a range day. View Quote Case in point is the CMMG RDB. CMMG showed it off at range day and of course it performed flawlessly there. I think I've done the most testing / tinkering than anyone on this site with the CMMG RDB. All (3) of my builds kill ejector springs around 1K rounds....just like many people are finding out now. I still run the CMMG RDB with the ejector spring in .40SW but have resorted to using a fixed ejector and modified bolt and carrier in 9mm. Giving a test unit to BattleFieldVegas / HendersonDefense, I think would be the true test for a product like this: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/ |
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Quoted: Keyword, SP9A3. The upcoming roller delayed blowback. Reports from Europe where it is already been released is that it shoots as soft as an MP5. Stribog SP9A1 is the straight blowback version that is currently available here in the USA. The SP9A3 will eat the AA MDP-9's lunch and dinner money. View Quote |
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Does Angstadt have the new holy grail of sub guns ? I'm not delusional so I would say no. I would like to think they have a US made quality product that is reliable and well made and fills in an niche with all the updates most people want. The only people I see up in arms is the ones in regards to price, while I'd love to have a fully updated MP5 straight from germany it just isn't gonna happen. I'm glad the stribog is around for other price alternatives but I wouldn't put in the same category as the B&T or the MDP 9. You can always try to send production to the least paid countries and get a reasonable product at the lowest cost but you will always run into issues at some point.
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I have a Stribog that I converted to A3. I can attest it's on par with an MP5. The big difference between the two is design. Stribog is "simple"; extruded receiver, solid bolt, etc. HK is more "complex"; welded receiver, intricate bolt system, etc. That all equates to manufacturing time. More time = more money. But as simple as Stribog is, I was very impressed with the overall fit & finish. It's quality, definitely not something you'd expect from a $650 gun.
An advantage MDP has over both Stribog and MP5 is the ability (assuming) to fit & function with an existing AR receiver. The MSRP, where high, reflects in part Angstadt's R&D recoup plus outright machining cost to produce the complex, HK-like parts. In the end will the Stribog A3 shoot "just as smooth" and cost considerably less money? Probably. But as mentioned, until they're compared side by side, we can only speculate. I love all these different options coming out now. |
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Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/zrOAm6h.png The SP9A3 is around 2kg, so low 4 pound range. But remember this is the full size 8" Stribog. You would have to wait and compare the 5.5" Stribog AP9A3S to have an apples to apples comparison for comparing to the 5.85" MDP9. I would say they are very competitive weight wise against each other. The SP9A3 is close enough weight wise to definitely compete with the MDP9 directly even if the barrel lengths are different. 9mm. Roller delayed. One piece upper. Side folding. Modern ergonomics. For anyone looking to get a 9mm PCC/sub gun, they will 100% be crossed shopped by the consumer. Change my mind. Running any AR lower is definitely a trait the MDP9 has over the SP9A3, but is that really that big of a deal for most consumers? As long as you have the ability to run Glock or Colt magazines + run AR FCG and safety + AR grips, not sure it matters after that to be honest. Why would you want a larger and heavier AR15 lower to run bigger and bulkier MEAN Endomag conversions? I can see that for a CMMG RDB setup where you need the buffer tube. That makes sense. But for a side folding gun like a SP9A3 or MDP9, I don't see the advantage at all. How do you know the roller delayed SP9A3 won't have as little recoil as the MDP9. You haven't even shot both of them much less side by side. It will come. Don't be so negative. View Quote |
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You spelled factual wrong lol. Not being negative just saying that you cant compare two products when one of them isnt even approved for import. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/zrOAm6h.png The SP9A3 is around 2kg, so low 4 pound range. But remember this is the full size 8" Stribog. You would have to wait and compare the 5.5" Stribog AP9A3S to have an apples to apples comparison for comparing to the 5.85" MDP9. I would say they are very competitive weight wise against each other. The SP9A3 is close enough weight wise to definitely compete with the MDP9 directly even if the barrel lengths are different. 9mm. Roller delayed. One piece upper. Side folding. Modern ergonomics. For anyone looking to get a 9mm PCC/sub gun, they will 100% be crossed shopped by the consumer. Change my mind. Running any AR lower is definitely a trait the MDP9 has over the SP9A3, but is that really that big of a deal for most consumers? As long as you have the ability to run Glock or Colt magazines + run AR FCG and safety + AR grips, not sure it matters after that to be honest. Why would you want a larger and heavier AR15 lower to run bigger and bulkier MEAN Endomag conversions? I can see that for a CMMG RDB setup where you need the buffer tube. That makes sense. But for a side folding gun like a SP9A3 or MDP9, I don't see the advantage at all. How do you know the roller delayed SP9A3 won't have as little recoil as the MDP9. You haven't even shot both of them much less side by side. It will come. Don't be so negative. |
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Quoted: Sure we can. It's like arguing we can't discuss the MDP-9 since it isn't at dealers yet. So it's not in consumer hands. Can't talk about the MDP-9. Sorry awd_xtc says we can't talk or compare it. Mean Arms roller delayed AR upper, sorry can't talk about it because awd_xtc says we can't talk or compare it. Shut this thread down, awd_xtc says we can't talk about these new guns. View Quote |
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Let’s keep it clean guys. I find the technical discussion about these types of topics by members much more knowledgeable than I am to be fascinating and enlightening so i don’t want this thread to get locked for petty differences.
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I'm not sure why this guy is so salty, I didnt say anything bad about the damn gun. Some people are just not very open minded I guess.
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Quoted: As a medical professional I think you need some vitamin A. There is a big difference between bot shipping to dealers and not allowed to ship yet. For all intents and purposes the stribog might as well be hypothetical in nature. I know you seem to have a hard on for it and congratulations good for you. I'm sure it's a wonderful firearm and you two will be very happy together as soon as it gets it's green card. View Quote I'd rather wait for the stribog A3 to get the okay and ship in bulk than try to snag the rare unicorn of some firearm for 30% above MSRP |
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My point is that the gun is not for sale and needs approval to be imported while the other guns even if they are not shipping yet do not have that step of approval to be imported. Will it be imported...most likely but it could take a while. That's all.
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My point is that the gun is not for sale and needs approval to be imported while the other guns even if they are not shipping yet do not have that step of approval to be imported. Will it be imported...most likely but it could take a while. That's all. View Quote |
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I really dig the innovative Mean Arms endomags. I'm excited to try their upper. That being said, I've just started to shoot the "Amphibian recommended" CMMG RDB setup and will have plenty of time to work with that while waiting for the Mean Arms upper.
Again, a huge thank you to Amphibian for all his work and sharing with the community. |
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