I have a question regarding defense ammunition out of a Lever Action. Most ballistic tests results are from 4 - 6 inch revolver barrels and turn into monsters when fired out of carbine or rifle barrels.

Would defensive loads that are effective from 4 inch revolver barrels be "too effective" (i.e. over penetration) out of longer barrels?

Specifically, I am looking at the Remington 125 gr SJHP that is tested to be 1450 fps from a revolver.

My fear with the lighter JHPs from a long barrel would be the exact opposite of yours.  I would expect under penetration.

Though, it is possible that the expanding petals would be ripped off, and the base of the bullet potentially could over penetrate.

No way to tell without actual testing, and different brands might behave differently, even if the same weight and velocity.

I would suggest looking at  the heavier bullets.

Thanks. I was considering heavier bullets initially, but read up on the Remington 125 gr SJHP being such a prolific and effective cartridge back in the day.

Hopefully, you can find some answers here.

This is telling.  I can't imagine a 125 gr bullet holding up.  Maybe, just maybe a 125 gr XTP-FP, but that's just a guess.

Was going to post this video. Hornady XTP 158gr has a .206 BC one of the highest for its weight.


I’ve hit steel at 400 yards with this bullet and it still rings pretty good.

I would go with nothing less than 140gr, for any .357 magnum firearm, handgun or rifle.

The 125 gr SJHP is over hyped.  It fragments and fails to reliably penetrate to sufficient depth to be depended on:

https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/fbi-picks-9mm/


FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA

Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners

· Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades

· Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore

· Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best

· In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEOs in a shooting incident

· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth

· The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)

· LEOs miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident

· Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)

· 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI

· 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)

· The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)

· There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto

· Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers.

The qualitative 'summary' provided above is nothing more than a series of opinions.  The rational behind each opinion isn't stated so each one is suspect and could be biased by elements not germane to the discussion.  The 'dominating element' of each opinion may or may not be a scientific assessment of the ballistics, rather it could be economic, 'politically correct', or it may be personal preference.  Just because a bunch of FBI bean counters wrote a report, it don't mean squat.  I worked in the defense industry for 41 yrs and I'm here to tell you that there never has been a government report written that didn't have an agenda.

Remember, the US Armed forces decided to dump the 30 cal battle rifle for the 5.56 stating that it 'was superior' in all aspects.  We now know that those tests were biased more towards cost and logistical considerations than combat effectiveness.  Too many troops in Iraq and Afghanistan consider their M4s as ballistically inferior to the AKs and wish for M14s for them to be 'superior'.  The M4s are light, cheap to buy, easily fixed, and shoot cheap, light, low recoiling ammo that's easy to keep the troops supplied with.  Ballistic considerations were far, far down the decision matrix when they talked themselves into the 5.56 and M16.

My M48 tank had M60 (7.62x51), M73 (30-06) and M2 (50 cal) machineguns but when I saw some NVA, as the TC, I always selected the 90mm canister main gun rd. Screw the brass that told us to use the smallest, cheapest rd to defend ourselves, they weren't getting shot at!  They were the same bastards that said we couldn't fire back at the gooks shooting at us from inside the Michelin rubber plantation groves because we'd damage the damn rubber trees!!!

Bigger is always better when your life is on the line, notwithstanding what some bean counter back in Washington tells you.  Nothing different with the FBI reports.  They are using metrics that don't have anything to do with lethality and when the BGs are shooting at you, lethality is the only thing that matters.  Screw the cost!!

Not always.  Not if bigger reduces your ability to reliably deliver the shots on target.  I personally would chose a revolver in .357 over one in .500S&W for a firefight any day of the week.

Yes, and the ability to put rounds into the target is part of lethality.

Regardless, I didn't cite the FBI article above as support for choosing the 9mm over the .40.

The topic is a single caliber, .357 magnum and the best load/bullet weight to use in that caliber.  My point was that sufficient penetration is required to reach vital organs and major arteries, the 125gr full power .357 rounds (especially the SJHPs) typically underpentrate due to fragmentation, and that shock cavity stopping power is a myth at handgun velocities, including .357 Magnum.  Therefore, 125 gr full power loads are not the best choices for combat loads in a handgun.  They would be even worse out of a rifle.

The 158gr JSP expands nicely in a rifle or carbine.  Most tests put them around 18in in penetration.

Even the cheap stuff.