User Panel
Posted: 8/6/2017 11:12:32 AM EDT
I was originally planning on using concrete blocks poured with concrete and rebar to build the wall that will hold my gun room. I am now changing my mind due to the weight of the concrete on the basement floor. So, I am wanting options to build this wall to make it as hard to penetrate as possible, while still keeping it lightweight and affordable.
The specifics are the room is a corner basement room enclosed on three sides by the concrete foundation. Adding this 11' 6" long wall that is 8' tall will enclose the rest of the room. I plan on having a light "vault door" on it for entry. The vault door might still be concealed from view by some sort of shelving unit, but that's another project altogether. The point being, this room jets out from the rest of the basement so most would not even know it's there (It's a porch on top). I am considering all options, but my current thought process is this. a 2x6 framed wall with 2x6 studs every 6". Rebar would be run horizontally through the boards maybe every 6" up. On the outside facing wall, there would be layers starting with metal screen type material. Unknown specifics but something tough. The next layer would be concrete board of some type. Maybe some backerboard for tile of some type. Likely the thicker stuff. Last would be 1/2" plywood. Then drywall would go over that to finish it off to simply make it look like every other wall. On the inside of the wall, I am thinking some sort of steel plating lag bolted to the 2x6's from the inside. I'm open to other thought processes. I know it won't be "fire proof" or anything, but I want it to be difficult for any devoted criminal with time to get in. I want the layers to take multiple types of cutting tools to be able to get through it. I know a plasma cutter will get you through just about anything, but we aren't going there. TL;DR......How would you build a vandal proof wall? |
|
I think you are on the right track. Security is measured in how much time it takes to defeat it......that's all
|
|
9 gauge steel mesh, 1/2" plywood over that, then drywall. Honestly, with out tools and time, your not getting through.
|
|
If you're worried about somebody cutting through the rebar, you could use smaller sections and run it inside conduit. This makes cutting it a bit more difficult as it will rotate within the conduit.
|
|
You could cut the basement slab, dig down about 24", fill with gravel 12" deep", compact, then pour a 1'-4" wide by 12" deep strip footing to support your CMU wall. The top of the footing would match the top of the floor.
|
|
Interesting project.
If it was me, I'd do 2x4 studs at 16" spacing, rockwool insulation, then expanded metal mesh screwed on from the outside. Cover that with two layers of type X drywall, and nobody is getting through it quickly. Maybe even use adhesive between the mesh and drywall so they can't be attacked individually? Not sure if that'd work how I'm thinking. Forget the rebar tricks. Expanded mesh covered in drywall has be used for decades to protect pharmacies, hospitals, gun stores, etc. |
|
Quoted:
Well the wall is framed and rebar is in. I went with 2x6 framed wall with 6" on centers. Every few 2x6's I ran rebar through. Nothing fancy, just a lot of 21-22" sections. The rebar is staggered between the framing. Door is a rough opening for a Smith vault door. I plan on hardibacker board then drywall on exterior of the wall, and 1/8" steel plating on the inside. Still open to suggestions. https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21371006_188693058340468_1710711911526660244_n.jpg?oh=464432a20eb950d236972f2a8b2714b9&oe=5A4C0893 View Quote |
|
I like adding the mesh idea, as someone could just take a sawzall and cut horizontally in two locations and be in, except the plate you plan on putting in...
|
|
If it was me, I would have used cast in place concrete or reinforced CMU.
Since you already have the studs up, I would put up a mesh. That is what we used for secure rooms for border patrol buildings. But for those rooms, we use metal studs, not wood studs. |
|
Thirds on the expanded sheet steel on the outside (screwed down with washers). the hardi board does not add much if any strength for this situation I don't think (not fire rated either). How about a good spray foam to tie it all together, your rebar, the studs, the expanded sheet.
|
|
Quoted:
Thirds on the expanded sheet steel on the outside (screwed down with washers). the hardi board does not add much if any strength for this situation I don't think (not fire rated either). How about a good spray foam to tie it all together, your rebar, the studs, the expanded sheet. View Quote |
|
Just use two layers of 3/4" plywood. They've shown it takes just as long as to get through as the expanded metal with plywood.
As has been pointed out a security system is the best defense. Without someone responding to a break in, intruders have all day to break through the wall. |
|
however you do it, put your cutting tools on the inside of the room
and install a whole house monitored security system without a monitored security system thieves have all the time in the world to get into your room. Also conceal the room. They cant break into the room if they dont see it, especially if they are running through the house as the alarm is going off trying to find something valuable to take before the cops get there. and last but not least reinforce the entry doors to the basement with steel so they can not be breached easily. If they have trouble getting into the basement and tge slarm us going off, they wont get anywhere near the concealed room built like a tank. It is all about layers. You can not stop easily, all you can do is slow them down alot. Also install motion flood lights and security cameras. So as a tldr recap: motion flood lights security cameras reinforced outside doors monitored security system big dogd hardened doors to basement concealed door to room hardened walls and door to room Cutting tools in room safe in room safe detonation explosives in case they gain entry to safe |
|
Quoted:
You could cut the basement slab, dig down about 24", fill with gravel 12" deep", compact, then pour a 1'-4" wide by 12" deep strip footing to support your CMU wall. The top of the footing would match the top of the floor. View Quote |
|
|
What are you doing to the ceiling?
I think the best defense you'll get is hiding everything, maybe even put a cheap gun safe somewhere out in the open. |
|
Quoted:
What are you doing to the ceiling? I think the best defense you'll get is hiding everything, maybe even put a cheap gun safe somewhere out in the open. View Quote Ordered my vault door today. In a few weeks the fun part is going to be getting it into the basement. |
|
covering the plywood with surface bonding cement so it looks like a parged block wall might deter thieves a bit.
|
|
Quoted:
covering the plywood with surface bonding cement so it looks like a parged block wall might deter thieves a bit. View Quote This would give plenty of layered protection for my needs. I also have a full reolink camera system and a few other layers of protection. |
|
I would put security mesh, after securing the security mesh to the existing plywood, use construction adhesive and put up another layer of plywood and screw it down also. You want to use adhesive between layers makes it harder to get apart if they get to the screws.
http://www.clarkdietrich.com/products/security-systems/barrier-mesh-security |
|
Great thread, looking to do the same some day. Jumping in a little late, but my $0.02
- Use liquid nails wherever possible - Use some connectors from "Simpson" like these: simpson strong-tie - Make sure sill plates are bolted to the ground and tops of wall equally secured (Simpson has all kinds of tough looking connectors) - Maybe some blocking between studs if you can get in there - The metal mesh looks like a good idea |
|
Quoted:
I would put security mesh, after securing the security mesh to the existing plywood, use construction adhesive and put up another layer of plywood and screw it down also. You want to use adhesive between layers makes it harder to get apart if they get to the screws. http://www.clarkdietrich.com/products/security-systems/barrier-mesh-security View Quote The key to layering is two fold: various material and thickness. Think about it- a thick wall of different construction material would take multiple passes and blade changes to gain access to the inside. I can understand your argument for minimal protection since other measures in place though. |
|
I always like the idea of a decoy safe, cheap lightweight gunsafe a couple people can carry away easily. Keep some old tools in it slap on a couple gun manufacturer stickers. They will think they got a easy score and leave with the decoy.
|
|
I like what youre doing, Im building a safe room/gun room this winter in my basement and had planned on using CMU concrete block backfilled with concrete and rebar, but I may just go this route instead. Where you only need 1 wall, Id need to build 2 as Im using to of the foundation walls as well. Im building a square room using to foundation walls 90 degrees to each other and would build 2 walls as shown to complete the square is what Im trying to say
|
|
|
|
What method did you use to secure the wall to the floor? What is the best method of doing this so someone does just have to smack the bottom of the wall out to knock it down? I'm looking to build something similar under my stairs.
|
|
Quoted:
What method did you use to secure the wall to the floor? What is the best method of doing this so someone does just have to smack the bottom of the wall out to knock it down? I'm looking to build something similar under my stairs. View Quote |
|
Is it nailed any differently than any other anchor plate? Will that hold up to a few good hits with a sledge hammer?
|
|
|
It's nailed down for now but I have considered some concrete screws.
It's going to be REALLY hard to move it with a sledge hammer. Since it's 2by6's it's MUCH wider than a typical wall. I also built the frame one stud at a time and wedged them in(instead of building the wall and placing it in place). With all the different ways it's connected I THINK it would hold up to most of what someone could get down there. |
|
For hanging, if you're on a budget, I recommend cheappegboard.com. it's scratch and dent wall control stuff, but most I have gotten were just returns with no original packaging but no damage. They are strong, and look pretty good.
|
|
Quoted:
For hanging, if you're on a budget, I recommend cheappegboard.com. it's scratch and dent wall control stuff, but most I have gotten were just returns with no original packaging but no damage. They are strong, and look pretty good. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I was originally planning on using concrete blocks poured with concrete and rebar to build the wall that will hold my gun room. I am now changing my mind due to the weight of the concrete on the basement floor. View Quote The point being, this room jets out from the rest of the basement so most would not even know it's there (It's a porch on top). View Quote How would you build a vandal proof wall? View Quote Second, if you do decide to use timber construction, make all your connections using screws, not nails. If you screw it together, all of your joints will be significantly more rigid than if you just nail it together. You are already talking about considerable expense. Spend a little more and get a consultation from the structural engineer at a reputable architectural-engineering firm or consulting engineering firm. The $500 or so you pay getting advice from someone who knows what they are doing could end up saving your whole collection. |
|
A few suggestions. plywood on both sides under the drywall. Makes a really strong room. Use a UL listed fire door. I worked for a money hauler and we used UL listed fire doors for all of the secure rooms that did not need vault doors. We also used electric locks.
|
|
|
Any exciting stories getting that thing down into the basement? Quite a bit of buildup in your previous post....
|
|
|
|
Looking good. You do nice tape work. Drywall is an art if you want it done right.
|
|
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.