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Posted: 8/14/2017 4:37:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Why should the customer pay for a dealer screw up?
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Posted: 8/14/2017 4:52:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Random customer finds my ad for transfers. Wants to transfer in 2 firearms. Coming in from 2 different dealers. Dealer 1 sends the damn thing plain Jane no signature No 18+ NOTHING The post office just left it outside my door (business) Ok luckily wasn't stolen ($2400 item) Dealer 2 Uses "FFL registry" and NOT the ez FFL check to verify my FFL. Even after giving him a copy of my FFL he still uses the registry. The registry had my old address. Even tho he had my FFL copy with the correct address he sent to the old address based on this registry which I never signed up for. Luckily this one was signature required etc. Now Becuz of this dealers goof I had to go to 2 different post offices(post office a block from that address isn't that right one. The hell) So I told the customer because of this nonsense (dealer 2) I'm gonna charge you $100 extra for time,travel , frustration. Am I in the wrong for this? I don't think so. For $15 it wasn't worth the hassle. But for $100 ok What you guys think. Sending dealer #1 is par for the course. Sending dealer of package #2 could have gone to the USPS web site and re-routed the shipment to your correct address since he had the tracking number and printed the label. Did you ask him to fix his screw-up by doing this? |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 4:54:38 PM EDT
[#3]
You should have just let the second gun go. Its the dealers fault, and its not worth your effort. You chose to go track it down, so I don't think you get to charge extra.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:05:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Random customer finds my ad for transfers. Wants to transfer in 2 firearms. Coming in from 2 different dealers. Dealer 1 sends the damn thing plain Jane no signature No 18+ NOTHING The post office just left it outside my door (business) Ok luckily wasn't stolen ($2400 item) Dealer 2 Uses "FFL registry" and NOT the ez FFL check to verify my FFL. Even after giving him a copy of my FFL he still uses the registry. The registry had my old address. Even tho he had my FFL copy with the correct address he sent to the old address based on this registry which I never signed up for. Luckily this one was signature required etc. Now Becuz of this dealers goof I had to go to 2 different post offices(post office a block from that address isn't that right one. The hell) So I told the customer because of this nonsense (dealer 2) I'm gonna charge you $100 extra for time,travel , frustration. Am I in the wrong for this? I don't think so. For $15 it wasn't worth the hassle. But for $100 ok What you guys think. Don't be a dick! |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:05:32 PM EDT
[#5]
If you advised the customer the fee when you agreed to handle this... you should keep your word!
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:12:14 PM EDT
[#6]
The first dealer was a pawn shop. So not sure why they would send without restrictions.
Second dealer seemed like an older guy. Gun broker transaction so I'm kinda surprised of his antics. Also both the dealer and customer asked me to resolve this if I could. The dealer seemed like he was happy with getting his $2500 and wanted to drop it on me. I told the customer to recoup the extra from the sending dealer since he asked me to help him on it etc. The reason I didn't wanna just let the second one go was because I still have the first gun. Customer was planning to pickup both same day since it was supposed to come same time until this fiasco. I did let the customer know that to get the second one I wasn't going to do it for just $15 etc. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:13:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you advised the customer the fee when you agreed to handle this... you should keep your word! |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:16:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Free advice from someone who's in the business. You're going to hurt yourself in the long run by word of mouth doing that. Sometimes we have to lose a little to win big in the long run. People that bend over backward for people are the successful ones.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:19:44 PM EDT
[#9]
U guys think I should just take it as lesson learned and skip the extra ? Even after letting the cust know prior to chasing it?
I'm trying to get an idea of what everyone would do. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:22:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Free advice from someone who's in the business. You're going to hurt yourself in the long run by word of mouth doing that. Sometimes we have to lose a little to win big in the long run. People that bend over backward for people are the successful ones. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:24:23 PM EDT
[#11]
I would personally leave it be. The customer didn't cause this and he should not be punished for it. He also may not come back to you or suggest you to his friends if you charge him that much in excess.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:24:57 PM EDT
[#12]
I can see your frustration, specially cause of dealer #2. I get time is money. At the same time, you agreed to the transfers and it isnt the customers fault ffl #2 sent it to the wrong FF address (maybe update this info even though its old info???) you also chose to do the running around. If anything, I would save either both or atleast dealer #2s info and just tell the customer he made it a real pain in the ass and you wont do any more transfers from ffl #2.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 5:36:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Did you CALL either dealer prior to the shipment? For your transfer fee, I would expect you to at least do some up front work. If you want it shipped a certain way, be clear.
People can forge a different address on a paper signed copy FFL and then send it off. That is why they probably shipped to the registry address, right or wrong. I am glad you posted that. It is good to know how many different ways things can get fucked up. I too, have had a plainly marked, photo of gun on box, package delivered to my door, no signature required, nobody at home. I was very lucky back then to live at the end of a long driveway. You ask the question whether you should charge the customer for the fuckup. The answer lies in whether you want them as a return customer, or whether you want him to tell ten of his friends about how fucked up the situation was made by you. He may even put it up on Yelp and your Facebook just to really dig in the spurs. I am that guy that put up a nice Yelp post for the local dealer that has had flawless transactions for me. 
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Posted: 8/14/2017 6:10:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Free advice from someone who's in the business. You're going to hurt yourself in the long run by word of mouth doing that. Sometimes we have to lose a little to win big in the long run. People that bend over backward for people are the successful ones. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:50:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you said it wouldn't be the normal $15, did you say it was $100? If you didn't let him know it was that much, you shouldn't charge that much. Ask for the gas money at most. As stated, you could have asked the second dealer to reroute the package if it bothered you that much to track it down. Personally, I would just eat the loss. You'll get more transfer business by doing so. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:54:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Unfortunately, I have done transfers that I had to put extra effort into, but going from $15 to a $100 bucks is a lot, it is probably time to just eat the time you put into the 2nd one and go on with life, it will pay you in the future. I will say, I won't and don't do transfers anymore.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 12:10:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Random customer finds my ad for transfers. Wants to transfer in 2 firearms. Coming in from 2 different dealers. Dealer 1 sends the damn thing plain Jane no signature No 18+ NOTHING The post office just left it outside my door (business) Ok luckily wasn't stolen ($2400 item) Dealer 2 Uses "FFL registry" and NOT the ez FFL check to verify my FFL. Even after giving him a copy of my FFL he still uses the registry. The registry had my old address. Even tho he had my FFL copy with the correct address he sent to the old address based on this registry which I never signed up for. Luckily this one was signature required etc. Now Becuz of this dealers goof I had to go to 2 different post offices(post office a block from that address isn't that right one. The hell) So I told the customer because of this nonsense (dealer 2) I'm gonna charge you $100 extra for time,travel , frustration. Am I in the wrong for this? I don't think so. For $15 it wasn't worth the hassle. But for $100 ok What you guys think. I think this is a typical dick move that give FFLs a bad name. Charging the customer $100 because the dealer screwed up? WTF man. Even worse is I am sure this fee was not agreed to in advance with customer, if the customer balks, what is your next move? If it is too much work, then let the dealer and the customer figure out how to get it to the correct address, and stay home. Go ahead, charge him $100 (hey why not $500), then come back and complain when customer has posted his experience on every gun board in Arizona.... or, tell the customer how much effort you went through to help him out, and then he posts his positive experience with you. As a business owner, it should have been obvious to you how to handle this. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 12:26:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Off topic.but what part of town are you in always prefer to send business to fellow members.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 1:02:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this is a typical dick move that give FFLs a bad name. Charging the customer $100 because the dealer screwed up? WTF man. Even worse is I am sure this fee was not agreed to in advance with customer, if the customer balks, what is your next move? If it is too much work, then let the dealer and the customer figure out how to get it to the correct address, and stay home. Go ahead, charge him $100 (hey why not $500), then come back and complain when customer has posted his experience on every gun board in Arizona.... or, tell the customer how much effort you went through to help him out, and then he posts his positive experience with you. As a business owner, it should have been obvious to you how to handle this. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:21:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Off topic.but what part of town are you in always prefer to send business to fellow members. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 8:49:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Now you know why FFL's with a clue don't do transfers for $15.
If you want to keep that price point then your customers need to know that any problems that arise before the gun arrives at your premises need to be resolved between the buyer and the seller. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 10:04:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Wrong address return on the second one.
And the customer would need to go back to his seller to have them resend it to the correct address and come in a second time for the second gun. This wasn't on you and the work you created wasn't asked for. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 6:31:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Sounds like you should open up a restaurant.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 6:37:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
U guys think I should just take it as lesson learned and skip the extra ? Even after letting the cust know prior to chasing it? I'm trying to get an idea of what everyone would do. Thanks. That right there says allot. Danny
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Posted: 8/16/2017 9:06:46 AM EDT
[#25]
#1: Who Cares? Talk to the USPS Guy on your route, letting him know to bring packages inside. Usually they do for business, not sure why he would leave it outside in the first place.
#2: Oh no, you had to run to the post office twice, it's the end of the world. None of this is the customers fault. Trying to shift the blame to him in the form of charging him more, it is bad practice. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 5:16:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you CALL either dealer prior to the shipment? For your transfer fee, I would expect you to at least do some up front work. If you want it shipped a certain way, be clear. EMAILED BOTH COPY OF MY FFL. I CANT DICTATE HOW TO TELL AN FFL TO SHIP AN ITEM. I CAN REQUEST. DOESNT MEAN THEY WILL DO People can forge a different address on a paper signed copy FFL and then send it off. That is why they probably shipped to the registry address, right or wrong. UNDERSTOOD. BUT WRONG REGISTRY. HE DIDNT USE THE FFL EZCHECK. HE USED SOME 3RD PARTY REGISTRY THAT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW I WAS ON I am glad you posted that. It is good to know how many different ways things can get fucked up. I too, have had a plainly marked, photo of gun on box, package delivered to my door, no signature required, nobody at home. I was very lucky back then to live at the end of a long driveway. MY PLACE IS ACTUALLY MY MAIN BUSINESS (CAR DEALER) AND WE ARE NOT IN THE BEST PART OF TOWN. AND HONESTLY I DONT KNOW HOW IN THE HELL THIS BOX REMAINED. ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF IS I GOT THERE RIGHT AFTER IT WAS DROPPED. WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH GAS BEING STOLEN, TOOLS BEING STOLEN, RIMS AND TIRES TAKEN OFF. MY FLAG SWOOPER SIGNS STOLEN. SO I WAS VERY SURPRISED THAT THAT RIFLE WAS STILL THERE. You ask the question whether you should charge the customer for the fuckup. The answer lies in whether you want them as a return customer, or whether you want him to tell ten of his friends about how fucked up the situation was made by you. He may even put it up on Yelp and your Facebook just to really dig in the spurs. I am that guy that put up a nice Yelp post for the local dealer that has had flawless transactions for me.
UNDERSTOOD. BUT MY FFL BUSINESS IS LISTED NO WHERE OTHER THAN A FEW ADS ON BP. NO GOOGLE INFO, NO PHONE NUMBER, NOTHING. ITS MAINLY WORD OF MOUTH AMONG FRIENDS, FAMILY, THEIR COWORKERS ETC. I DIDNT END UP CHARGING THE CUSTOMER. BUT THE CUSTOMER WAS STILL OK WITH IT. BUT. the ATF was ALL OVER this person. Apparantly this person is trafficking guns. ATF Agent contacted me and advised me of this person and their intent. Now i dont understand why this person would go thru an ffl and buy these particular types of AR-15s or any guns and not just go on BP and go crazy and buy without any paperwork if you are trafficking. anyways. The person got Arrested. Left my shop and ATF along with local police swarmed the car after traffic stop. you know it didnt make sense that this person was buying $5000 worth of rifles (for 2 and thats what they paid) and both were the SAME rifle. i dont know the exact details but the amount person paid for the rifles was worth more than the car that the person arrived in. Thanks for all the replies everyone. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 7:13:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so after this whole fiasco. i didnt charge the customer the Extra $. i took it as lesson learned. and Hopefully for return business BUT. the ATF was ALL OVER this person. Apparantly this person is trafficking guns. ATF Agent contacted me and advised me of this person and their intent. Now i dont understand why this person would go thru an ffl and buy these particular types of AR-15s or any guns and not just go on BP and go crazy and buy without any paperwork if you are trafficking. anyways. The person got Arrested. Left my shop and ATF along with local police swarmed the car after traffic stop. you know it didnt make sense that this person was buying $5000 worth of rifles (for 2 and thats what they paid) and both were the SAME rifle. i dont know the exact details but the amount person paid for the rifles was worth more than the car that the person arrived in. Thanks for all the replies everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you CALL either dealer prior to the shipment? For your transfer fee, I would expect you to at least do some up front work. If you want it shipped a certain way, be clear. EMAILED BOTH COPY OF MY FFL. I CANT DICTATE HOW TO TELL AN FFL TO SHIP AN ITEM. I CAN REQUEST. DOESNT MEAN THEY WILL DO People can forge a different address on a paper signed copy FFL and then send it off. That is why they probably shipped to the registry address, right or wrong. UNDERSTOOD. BUT WRONG REGISTRY. HE DIDNT USE THE FFL EZCHECK. HE USED SOME 3RD PARTY REGISTRY THAT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW I WAS ON I am glad you posted that. It is good to know how many different ways things can get fucked up. I too, have had a plainly marked, photo of gun on box, package delivered to my door, no signature required, nobody at home. I was very lucky back then to live at the end of a long driveway. MY PLACE IS ACTUALLY MY MAIN BUSINESS (CAR DEALER) AND WE ARE NOT IN THE BEST PART OF TOWN. AND HONESTLY I DONT KNOW HOW IN THE HELL THIS BOX REMAINED. ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF IS I GOT THERE RIGHT AFTER IT WAS DROPPED. WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH GAS BEING STOLEN, TOOLS BEING STOLEN, RIMS AND TIRES TAKEN OFF. MY FLAG SWOOPER SIGNS STOLEN. SO I WAS VERY SURPRISED THAT THAT RIFLE WAS STILL THERE. You ask the question whether you should charge the customer for the fuckup. The answer lies in whether you want them as a return customer, or whether you want him to tell ten of his friends about how fucked up the situation was made by you. He may even put it up on Yelp and your Facebook just to really dig in the spurs. I am that guy that put up a nice Yelp post for the local dealer that has had flawless transactions for me.
UNDERSTOOD. BUT MY FFL BUSINESS IS LISTED NO WHERE OTHER THAN A FEW ADS ON BP. NO GOOGLE INFO, NO PHONE NUMBER, NOTHING. ITS MAINLY WORD OF MOUTH AMONG FRIENDS, FAMILY, THEIR COWORKERS ETC. I DIDNT END UP CHARGING THE CUSTOMER. BUT THE CUSTOMER WAS STILL OK WITH IT. BUT. the ATF was ALL OVER this person. Apparantly this person is trafficking guns. ATF Agent contacted me and advised me of this person and their intent. Now i dont understand why this person would go thru an ffl and buy these particular types of AR-15s or any guns and not just go on BP and go crazy and buy without any paperwork if you are trafficking. anyways. The person got Arrested. Left my shop and ATF along with local police swarmed the car after traffic stop. you know it didnt make sense that this person was buying $5000 worth of rifles (for 2 and thats what they paid) and both were the SAME rifle. i dont know the exact details but the amount person paid for the rifles was worth more than the car that the person arrived in. Thanks for all the replies everyone. If ATF gave you a heads up prior to the transfer that the transferee was a dirtbag.................you should have charged him extra. He'll be in prison and unlikely able to access Yelp to give you a bad review. 
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Posted: 8/16/2017 8:36:49 PM EDT
[#28]
 +1 for what Tom said. Not going to be a return customer for sure.
That guy was an idiot. I'm sure they sent him a cease and desist letter at least once. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:25:00 PM EDT
[#29]
it wasnt a guy....
notice how i kept saying "customer" and "this person" etc btw im in south phoenix.. 5mins from downtown |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:45:16 PM EDT
[#30]
I would tell you to pound sand, notify shipper, ATF & state AG you're engaged in a "bait and switch" scheme with my property and watch the fireworks fly.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:46:37 PM EDT
[#31]
So FFLs fuck up and you want to charge customer $100? Hope you enjoy unemployment..........some people have no business owning a shop.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:58:17 PM EDT
[#32]
I wouldn't dream of spending one red cent in a shop ever again if they tried pulling this $100 game, especially after agreeing to a $15 transfer. I would let every other gun person I knew know about it too so they could avoid playing those games as well. I bought the gun, I put the shipper in contact with receiving FFL, now take my $15 and give me my guns. I would expect the same from just about any customer.
Our shop is $25 for the first gun and less (or $0) for additional transfers in the same transaction, regardless of runarounds. They changed locations a while back and probably had to deal with some of the same stuff. |
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Posted: 8/17/2017 6:13:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would tell you to pound sand, notify shipper, ATF & state AG you're engaged in a "bait and switch" scheme with my property and watch the fireworks fly.
I don't think the "ATF & state AG" would give a shit how much the OP charged. Now..........if the OP had not added to his story I would heartily agree with you. It's not the buyers fault that the shipper has his head up his butt. But the OP isn't responsible for chasing down packages at the post office or other wrong address. It's the shippers responsibility under Federal law/ATF regulations to ship to the correct address. |
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Posted: 8/17/2017 7:41:15 PM EDT
[#34]
I didn't do a "bait and switch"
The transfer fees were always $15 for first and $10 for any after. Now after the rifle was "delivered" the customer emailed me and said it was delivered which I promptly told her no it has not been. After her doing her part the dealer called and asked if I "could fiix" this problem. After that I spoke to the customer and explained how dealer sent to wrong address and that he used some unapproved registry check. That's when I told her about that I don't go chasing down these types of issues and for $15 it wasn't worth it. So I told her I'll try and find it but keep in mind it's not gonna be the normal $15+$10 which she understood. But after posting about this and getting a rash of shit I didn't charge the extra. Just took it as lesson learned and to never chase down shit again. The dealer that screwed up is 07 dealer. So even though it's not right for him not to know the correct way to verify I guess maybe he didn't know since he's an 07 type dealer. Who knows. I got yelled at Collected my $25 Stared at this very hot peice of ass gun trafficker Customer got arrested Went about my day. |
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Posted: 8/17/2017 9:04:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stared at this very hot peice of ass gun trafficker.... 
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Posted: 8/18/2017 3:23:08 AM EDT
[#36]
All I can say as a FFL 07 holder...
WOW! |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 7:53:35 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All I can say as a FFL 07 holder... WOW! Plenty of 07's do transfers. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 11:14:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plenty of 07's do transfers. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 11:36:13 AM EDT
[#39]
<-- Current 07/C2
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did I say they don't? I no longer do them, but I have in the past. My comment was in reference to saying a type 07 didn't know, well we all have to know laws no matter what type you are. Got it, that wasn't clear from your post. We do inbound and outbound transfers. ETA: Too bad the ATF didn't make the collar in the store, OP could maybe have gotten a free rifle out of the whole mess. 
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Posted: 8/31/2017 12:59:43 AM EDT
[#40]
In all businesses sometimes you make money and sometimes you don't. I would rather lose money on a customer now and then and keep a good reputation for my business.
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Posted: 9/6/2017 9:37:08 PM EDT
[#41]
How would the atf know that the chick had guns inbound to you?
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