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Posted: 1/15/2022 7:48:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does SA(or any other manufacturer)throw out a fleet of guns or do they use one or two? Tha could be why the trigger is getting better! But, I think I gave Art(Shooting Sight)almost $300 and my Tavor has an excellent trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well...it went from having a 7 to 8 lb trigger to right around 5..If it is the same gun..Several tubers used the same type of trigger gauge yo test the triggerpull.. Does SA(or any other manufacturer)throw out a fleet of guns or do they use one or two? Tha could be why the trigger is getting better! But, I think I gave Art(Shooting Sight)almost $300 and my Tavor has an excellent trigger. The trigger could be wearing in, but it still isn't a good look to have a new rifle go from an 8lb trigger to a 5lb in a matter of a couple thousand rounds...yes, the trigger may feel better, but I would be concerned at a 30%+ reduction in trigger weight and wonder what other performance metrics are going to change over time. Also, the accuracy reports from TFB and Sootch both had a tendency to have a nice 4 round group with one flyer...almost every single group shown. |
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Posted: 1/15/2022 8:32:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Is anyone reputable taking pre-orders for this?
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Posted: 1/15/2022 8:57:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The trigger could be wearing in, but it still isn't a good look to have a new rifle go from an 8lb trigger to a 5lb in a matter of a couple thousand rounds...yes, the trigger may feel better, but I would be concerned at a 30%+ reduction in trigger weight and wonder what other performance metrics are going to change over time. Also, the accuracy reports from TFB and Sootch both had a tendency to have a nice 4 round group with one flyer...almost every single group shown. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well...it went from having a 7 to 8 lb trigger to right around 5..If it is the same gun..Several tubers used the same type of trigger gauge yo test the triggerpull.. Does SA(or any other manufacturer)throw out a fleet of guns or do they use one or two? Tha could be why the trigger is getting better! But, I think I gave Art(Shooting Sight)almost $300 and my Tavor has an excellent trigger. The trigger could be wearing in, but it still isn't a good look to have a new rifle go from an 8lb trigger to a 5lb in a matter of a couple thousand rounds...yes, the trigger may feel better, but I would be concerned at a 30%+ reduction in trigger weight and wonder what other performance metrics are going to change over time. Also, the accuracy reports from TFB and Sootch both had a tendency to have a nice 4 round group with one flyer...almost every single group shown. Yea I caught that too. My MDRx does the same thing. The thing is, it reliably does it. Same issue, the barrel isn't really that secure, so sometimes it holds good, and sometimes it throws one wild. Trust me, don't discount that flyer as an oddity, because it isn't going away. That said, even with the reliable flyer/group, it wasn't that bad accuracy - certainly very serviceable for what the rifle is. |
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Posted: 1/15/2022 9:12:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No AUG is king, also I will be buying one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Neat but I have zero interest in buying one. AR is King No AUG is king, also I will be buying one. Agree that AUG is Bullpup king |
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Posted: 1/15/2022 9:26:07 PM EDT
[#5]
The ones for the French FAMAS replacement trials didn’t have captured pins. Also had a convex rubber butt pad added.
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Posted: 1/15/2022 11:48:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The trigger could be wearing in, but it still isn't a good look to have a new rifle go from an 8lb trigger to a 5lb in a matter of a couple thousand rounds...yes, the trigger may feel better, but I would be concerned at a 30%+ reduction in trigger weight and wonder what other performance metrics are going to change over time. Also, the accuracy reports from TFB and Sootch both had a tendency to have a nice 4 round group with one flyer...almost every single group shown. Metal too soft? Could cause a lighter trigger I guess. Will the groups get bigger? |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 1:10:50 AM EDT
[#7]
According to the YTer below (FYI, Texas Plinking's 2nd channel), the rifles are all different.
They were given the rifles to keep after the review. I did see a reviewer's Hellion rifle listed on GB with starting at $3k and "buy now" at $4k. That rifle was sold, and the channel is "715 Tactical". NightForce participated in the same program, which is why everyone is getting the same scope.  Springfield Armory Hellion Review - VHS-2 For Us Normies |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 2:05:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the YTer below (FYI, Texas Plinking's 2nd channel), the rifles are all different. They were given the rifles to keep after the review. I did see a reviewer's Hellion rifle listed on GB with starting at $3k and "buy now" at $4k. That rifle was sold, and the channel is "715 Tactical". NightForce participated in the same program, which is why everyone is getting the same scope.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieHAGDGO2uQIf that's true, I think it's a tall order to believe all of these "reviewers" are being objective. Hopefully it's a good gun, but until someone actually buys one and can give a more unbiased report, I think caution is appropriate. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 3:00:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Idk, Ian is pretty damn objective. He has no problem making manufacturers uncomfortable with his critiques, even when they ask him for them.
That being said, I find it interesting that GarandThumb hasn’t posted his vid yet. I have zero doubt that he was also given a review rifle, as he is one of the big names in the youtube tactical rifle crowd. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 4:43:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the YTer below (FYI, Texas Plinking's 2nd channel), the rifles are all different. They were given the rifles to keep after the review. I did see a reviewer's Hellion rifle listed on GB with starting at $3k and "buy now" at $4k. That rifle was sold, and the channel is "715 Tactical". NightForce participated in the same program, which is why everyone is getting the same scope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieHAGDGO2uQWas the 4K with the night force scope and mount? |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:24:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was the 4K with the night force scope and mount? IIRC the scope and mount wasn't included. A friend linked me the auction at midnight of the release and when I checked yesterday, the auction wasn't listed anymore. I'm assuming the gun got sold with a buy now of $4k. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:30:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that's true, I think it's a tall order to believe all of these "reviewers" are being objective. Hopefully it's a good gun, but until someone actually buys one and can give a more unbiased report, I think caution is appropriate. Yeah, I am well aware of how things are on YouTube. It is pretty much a new advertisement platform for celebs and companies. I think at least the gun is already being used by a few military and other groups/agencies so there are some track records of how the gun will do. It isn't a new gun per se, though yes, it is a new gun on the US market with slight changes. I'll be getting one for sure. Hopefully the crazy over the MSRP prices will come down soon. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 10:28:27 AM EDT
[#13]
715 Tactical...I JUST HOPE he has a FFL because if he is profiteering off firearms sales...well...knock knock knock...
It is one thing to move firearms around as a non-licensee to further your personal collection but it is a whole other bag of worms once a non-licensee starts to profit off firearms sales... |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Will likely buy one. Going to need to find a grip that is closer to original factory one. I really hope someone imports the original factory optic carry handle. Love the looks of it. Springfield would be smart to offer it but I suspect they won’t. Maybe some importer’s will.
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Posted: 1/16/2022 1:19:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Idk, Ian is pretty damn objective. He has no problem making manufacturers uncomfortable with his critiques, even when they ask him for them. Agreed. The only YT'er whose opinion I really, really take confidently is Ians and he really enjoyed the rifle. Everyone else is going to simp for the gun in some form I feel like. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 3:41:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the YTer below (FYI, Texas Plinking's 2nd channel), the rifles are all different. They were given the rifles to keep after the review. I did see a reviewer's Hellion rifle listed on GB with starting at $3k and "buy now" at $4k. That rifle was sold, and the channel is "715 Tactical". NightForce participated in the same program, which is why everyone is getting the same scope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieHAGDGO2uQI saw a video about that auction. The seller, who 'reviewed' the gun stated there were only like 100 rounds through the gun or something too haha. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 5:09:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the YTer below (FYI, Texas Plinking's 2nd channel), the rifles are all different. They were given the rifles to keep after the review. I did see a reviewer's Hellion rifle listed on GB with starting at $3k and "buy now" at $4k. That rifle was sold, and the channel is "715 Tactical". NightForce participated in the same program, which is why everyone is getting the same scope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieHAGDGO2uQThese guys are getting free rifles to keep?? What does it take to become a YouTube reviewer lol? I feel like that would be pretty sweet deal. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 5:52:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. The only YT'er whose opinion I really, really take confidently is Ians and he really enjoyed the rifle. Everyone else is going to simp for the gun in some form I feel like. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Idk, Ian is pretty damn objective. He has no problem making manufacturers uncomfortable with his critiques, even when they ask him for them. Agreed. The only YT'er whose opinion I really, really take confidently is Ians and he really enjoyed the rifle. Everyone else is going to simp for the gun in some form I feel like. I liked Ian's take on it best. However, this thing is right up his ally with it basically being a modernized FAMAS/G36. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 6:25:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn, I thought I spent a lot for my AUG at $1,800. Multiple sellers on GunBroker listing these around $3,000 right now.
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Posted: 1/16/2022 7:13:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Buying into the frenzy is so idiotic...those same people in 3 months will try and sell it for $3500 when retailers are going back to normal prices at MSRP or slightly below...
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Posted: 1/16/2022 7:31:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Got any photos of that version with the carry handle optic?
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Posted: 1/16/2022 7:38:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's the K model:
 And the longer D model: 
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Posted: 1/16/2022 8:22:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buying into the frenzy is so idiotic...those same people in 3 months will try and sell it for $3500 when retailers are going back to normal prices at MSRP or slightly below... I agree. One would have to want one pretty bad to pay that much over MSRP. Marlin/Ruger 1895 SBL's are like that now too and I recently watched plain-Jane Henry 45/70 rifles go for over $1800? Looks like it is still going on with the Springfield Hi-Power clone on GB. Bids just below $1k with time to spare. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 8:42:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buying into the frenzy is so idiotic...those same people in 3 months will try and sell it for $3500 when retailers are going back to normal prices at MSRP or slightly below... Lol, so true I will say this. They certainly did the release right. Unlike some other manufacturers that have done “soft releases” with barely any publicity. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:02:01 PM EDT
[#25]
The "K" looks like an AUG due to scope in handle but the pewpewpew slot on the safety makes me think "no way, no how" but dang it looks so nice!
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:08:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "K" looks like an AUG due to scope in handle but the pewpewpew slot on the safety makes me think "no way, no how" but dang it looks so nice! Yeah, they don't have pictures of the integrated optic for the Hellion yet, but it is just a top rail replacement. If you get a railed model, you can swap it for the integrated optic once you break the rifle down. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:26:29 PM EDT
[#27]
I wonder how well it holds zero since you have to separate the optic rail from the rest of the gun to fully break it down.
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:38:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. One would have to want one pretty bad to pay that much over MSRP. Marlin/Ruger 1895 SBL's are like that now too and I recently watched plain-Jane Henry 45/70 rifles go for over $1800? Looks like it is still going on with the Springfield Hi-Power clone on GB. Bids just below $1k with time to spare. The SA-35 sellers better cash in quickly...EAA is importing a Hi-Power clone that appears to be a carbon copy of SA's, but it uses regular Hi-Power sights. Also, there's rumors circulating that FN might refit the tooling and bring back real Hi-Powers...if they could do that at a fair price, who would want a clone wannabe? |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 9:56:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The SA-35 sellers better cash in quickly...EAA is importing a Hi-Power clone that appears to be a carbon copy of SA's, but it uses regular Hi-Power sights. Also, there's rumors circulating that FN might refit the tooling and bring back real Hi-Powers...if they could do that at a fair price, who would want a clone wannabe? Wasnt FN selling high powers for like $800? I am not a hi power guy, but if a real high power cost more, has a terrible magazine safety and a terrible trigger, thats a lot of reason to go somewhere else |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 11:06:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the K model: https://i.imgur.com/FI5Cpft.png And the longer D model: https://i.imgur.com/YtuAJIr.png |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 11:09:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't get why the US doesn't get the grooved barrel like the original. And I don't think it has anything to do with rifle grenades Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's the K model: https://i.imgur.com/FI5Cpft.png And the longer D model: https://i.imgur.com/YtuAJIr.png Cost cutting measure probably, less machining time for the barrels. |
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Posted: 1/16/2022 11:10:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Will most likely buy one at msrp , I like it except for it's lack of a chrome lined barrel.
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Posted: 1/16/2022 11:29:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't get why the US doesn't get the grooved barrel like the original. And I don't think it has anything to do with rifle grenades For me, I'm glad they got rid of the grooved barrel. Don't much care for how it looks. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 12:34:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasnt FN selling high powers for like $800? I am not a hi power guy, but if a real high power cost more, has a terrible magazine safety and a terrible trigger, thats a lot of reason to go somewhere else Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The SA-35 sellers better cash in quickly...EAA is importing a Hi-Power clone that appears to be a carbon copy of SA's, but it uses regular Hi-Power sights. Also, there's rumors circulating that FN might refit the tooling and bring back real Hi-Powers...if they could do that at a fair price, who would want a clone wannabe? Wasnt FN selling high powers for like $800? I am not a hi power guy, but if a real high power cost more, has a terrible magazine safety and a terrible trigger, thats a lot of reason to go somewhere else Before they gave up, new FNs were $900. I love the HP design, but it’s not a $900 gun. If they’re going to come back in at that price point, they shouldn’t even bother. Maybe purists would buy them but it’s a small market up there. Competition and choice are good. I have two FNs, the Springfield, and I want the teased EAA version with the rail. If having to worry about the other guys keeps innovation alive and pricing aggressive, it benefits us. I do hope that the VHS production is sufficient to fill demand before long. Having lived through two years of console and GPU shortages with associated scalpers makes me somewhat nervous. But the prices on the VHS are higher so there’s a huge upfront cost on top of the ATF taking a dim view of non-FFLs flipping for profit. We shall see. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 12:54:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cost cutting measure probably, less machining time for the barrels. Are the grooves there to facilitate rifle grenades? If so I wonder if they had to get rid of them for some sporting purposes compliance thing. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 1:09:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the grooves there to facilitate rifle grenades? If so I wonder if they had to get rid of them for some sporting purposes compliance thing. Ribbed for your pleasure?  My wild guess, they’re similar to the finned barrels on the 1927/1928 Thompsons, to aid in cooling the barrel by increasing surface area to radiate heat. Nice idea, but an easy cost-cutting measure when they went to the simplified M1 Thompson. Since it’s a semi-auto carbine, the “need” for the increased cooling isn’t as strong and deleting them saves on machining time (and time is money!). There is a chance that the grooves may trigger the ATF as “non-sporting” but they aren’t explicitly defined in the rules that came out of the 89 import ban. I’d lean towards cost as the primary factor. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 9:33:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before they gave up, new FNs were $900. I love the HP design, but it’s not a $900 gun. If they’re going to come back in at that price point, they shouldn’t even bother. Maybe purists would buy them but it’s a small market up there. Competition and choice are good. I have two FNs, the Springfield, and I want the teased EAA version with the rail. If having to worry about the other guys keeps innovation alive and pricing aggressive, it benefits us. I do hope that the VHS production is sufficient to fill demand before long. Having lived through two years of console and GPU shortages with associated scalpers makes me somewhat nervous. But the prices on the VHS are higher so there’s a huge upfront cost on top of the ATF taking a dim view of non-FFLs flipping for profit. We shall see. They were $900 because FN/Browning could get that for them. Now that there's competition, I would expect them to be priced at a premium, but just enough to say, "I'm worth more because I'm the original"...so if the MSRP of the others was $700 I would think that they'd be in the $750-$800 range. The honest reviews of the SA-35 were much less rosy and rah-rah than the paid reviewers. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 12:28:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Rifle grenades have a 22mm bore, which matches the OD of an A1/A2 flash hider (or any other NATO standard flash hider). Since the barrel is smaller diameter than the flash hider, it would not interface with the grenade and not effect rifle grenade performance.
It's for surface area/cooling or to look cool, but not for rifle grenades. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 1:35:39 PM EDT
[#39]
My guess is the barrel is US made along with the pistol grip, handguard and magazine for 6 US parts.
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Posted: 1/17/2022 3:01:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is the barrel is US made along with the pistol grip, handguard and magazine for 6 US parts. Barrel is likely not U.S. made. Flashider however, probably is U.S. made. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 3:34:31 PM EDT
[#41]
This is no way any different than IWI bringing in the Tavors...the barreled action is Croatian along with the receiver...
Small parts that need compliance with 922r such as disconnector, flash hider, pistol grip etc are US made... |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 6:27:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Northwest Armory sent an email Friday night they had them, was a touch over 1700. By the time I got through the checkout it was out of stock already
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Posted: 1/17/2022 6:31:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Northwest Armory sent an email Friday night they had them, was a touch over 1700. By the time I got through the checkout it was out of stock already That's a great price considering what they're going for on GB. Didn't think anyone would be selling under MSRP already. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 7:38:04 PM EDT
[#44]
I kind of want one of these. I need to watch more videos. I have a Tavor Sar, X95, AUG and a Kel-Tec KSG (hoping to add a KS7 to my collection sometime) and I used to own a RDB. I kind of miss the RDB. I just didn’t like adjusting the gas settings. I want a rifle that I don’t have to do that to.
Hopefully the market calms down soon and we can get these under or way under MSRP. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 10:50:36 PM EDT
[#45]
You know...Ive had an RDB since it came out..Ive only adjusted the gas 1x..Never needed to adjust it going from 50gr-75gr..
The only alternate setting I have is for steel case and thats cuz steel case is kinda poopy.. If you had said RFB that would make more sense as there alot more variance in pressures for the available 308/762x51 rounds. Some Weak surplus..Hot Surplus..Steel cased and Match..but I digress.. I wonder how the Hellion handles poopy steel cased.. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 11:17:08 PM EDT
[#46]
The ribbed barrel is the same as on the FAMAS and the VHS-2 in the French FAMAS replacement trials. It’s for launching the French rifle grenades. That’s why you also see that collar on the barrel. I think it moves a bit. Maybe it allows you to somehow change the range of the grenade depending where you put I on the barrel. Also would probably trigger ATF “non sporting purpose”.
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Posted: 1/18/2022 7:05:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the K model: https://i.imgur.com/FI5Cpft.png And the longer D model: https://i.imgur.com/YtuAJIr.png Isn't the fixed optic a 1.5x? A few people are calling it an RDS, but I don't know if that's correct or not. |
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Posted: 1/18/2022 7:40:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't the fixed optic a 1.5x? A few people are calling it an RDS, but I don't know if that's correct or not. The site says a 1.5x red dot so maybe it's an illuminated prism optic. |
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Posted: 1/18/2022 10:06:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kind of want one of these. I need to watch more videos. I have a Tavor Sar, X95, AUG and a Kel-Tec KSG (hoping to add a KS7 to my collection sometime) and I used to own a RDB. I kind of miss the RDB. I just didn’t like adjusting the gas settings. I want a rifle that I don’t have to do that to. Hopefully the market calms down soon and we can get these under or way under MSRP. The post above yours said they were listing uner MSRP already. I think that's because 'pups are sitting, maybe sinking is a better term. |
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Posted: 1/18/2022 10:10:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a great price considering what they're going for on GB. Didn't think anyone would be selling under MSRP already. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Northwest Armory sent an email Friday night they had them, was a touch over 1700. By the time I got through the checkout it was out of stock already That's a great price considering what they're going for on GB. Didn't think anyone would be selling under MSRP already. Sorry OlympicArmsFan, it was a couple above your post. |
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