Quote failure.

Quote failure.

Ironically, I've seen more than one of these fail overseas during firing. It seems all weapons can and do fail in different situations.

So you are saying that US special forces are using Keltec RDBs?  Really?  Would love to see an authoritative citation for that.  I will donate 25 bucks to the charity of your choice for a credible source for that.

They do fail. But if you're looking for a long service history with the militaries of multiple nations, it's hard to argue with its pedigree.

SOCOM may have a few for T&E but I haven't heard anything about it being purchased for duty use.

I've been trying to remember where I saw that info.  I think that it was in an NRA Insider or NSSF posting or something.  It was a statement to the effect that the RDB was approved for use, not that it was an issued item.

I remember thinking at the time (late last year), "Oh, great, now I'll never see one," after looking around for one for years (I did finally pick one up a few months ago).

While trying to find a source for you, I ran across the stuff from US C-SOG (private corrections contractor) and, thinking about it, may have made the mental leap from seeing that to attaching it to the US SOC.

And looking at US C-SOGs videos and stuff online, it's clear that they have some relationship with KelTec (although perhaps a somewhat amorphous one).

Just goes to show that RIF (Reading Is Fundamental), I guess...

Sorry for the confusion.

Forrest

C-SOG uses the KSG for cell entries. I saw a video which showed them using it extensively.

This video shows their love for all things Kel-Tec, apparently.

I have an AUG, and 2 MSARs.  I much prefer my RDB.  Trigger and ergos are much better IMO.

Guess it helps when your opponents can't shoot back.    And you go in with overwhelming force looking like your team is on it's way in to take out Osama Bin Laden.

The benefits of the RDB are overwhelming. I would suspect that C-SOG probably gets hand selected RDBs that have been vetted for QC.
I would love to have such an RDB. Either way, Keltec has removed most of the initial bugs that cropped up with some of the earlier RDBs.  
It is a short, lightweight bullpup that has great controls, ergonomics that is reasonably accurate. It has features that no other 5.56 bullpup has to-date.

-The magazine can be dropped with the trigger hand, unlike the AUG. Reloads are fast. (Critical for any combat rifle).
-It is slimmer and feels significantly more lightweight and maneuverable than the Tavor. Whether this is a matter of perception or actual weight is irrelevant. The Tavor feels like hugging an
awkward football by comparison.
-It is comparably more accurate than the stock Tavor. My Tavor has the Shooting Sight trigger pack installed, and it still groups larger than my RDB. The RDB's accuracy could be improved further if someone could find a mod to free float the handguard.
-It has an amazing trigger out of the box. One of the best I've felt.
-Most ambidextrous rifle out there to date.
-The charging handle can be locked open with one hand. Something that cannot be said for the AR, or the Tavor (which requires three hands). This is important when conducting remedial action to deal with a misfire.
-On that note, misfires are pretty rare due to the fact that there isn't the sort of tight space in the receiver for a cartridge to get stuck, and pulling the action back clears any jam quickly due to the fact that gravity assists in dropping the cartridge straight down (as a result of the downward ejection design). Jams are extremely easy and fast to clear. (Vital for a combat rifle).

The RDB deals with these issues that no other rifle has addressed. If it wasn't for the reputation of poor QC by the manufacturer, it would be the perfect fighting rifle.


My only complaints about the RDB:

-The gas adjust has too many settings. While this may never be an issue, I dislike this feature. At the very least, the gas settings need to be more crisp. The gas adjust needs to have numbered
gas settings so that the user does not have to count clicks. And there should be a way to lock in place each gas setting to avoid accidentally knocking it out of place. An aftermarket gas adjust knob should be able to be easily fashioned to have numbers stamped into it.

-The bolt release over the magazine well is a bit stiff and kind of awkward to actuate. It needs to be actuated from above, pushing it downwards. This isn't a huge issue, just requires
some retraining to address. But they should redesign it so that it can be slapped from a 90 degree horizontal, or from below.

These are my only critiques of the rifle. And they are not really big issues. Just the only ones I can think of, and should be able to be modded away. I have no issue with the standard handguard as some people hate. I think it fits my hands nicely, but a slightly slimmer one would not be bad. A slimmer handguard should be so easy to fabricate, one might be able to rapid
prototype one via 3D printing.  
Given these few issues with the rifle, and all the above benefits. I think this rifle is a winner.

OP.........uh how about that AUG?

Seeing the Vice "News" feature with a tour of Kel-Tec really impressed me. I want a Sub 2000 more now. They think outside the box but we have to agree they simply aren't combat proven.



That video showed three guys unloading their weapons inside a cell block common area with all muzzles in the same direction. What do you call that drill?

Most prisons are broke and have Mini-14s and other beat to shit guns in their towers and have access to the surplus M16A1s. Corrections would be a tight market.

Got a link to that video?  I'd be interested in seeing it.

So far I've really been liking the AUG.  I've got about 400 rounds down the tube so far and it's quickly becoming my favorite long gun in the safe.  It hasnt been liking WOLF Polycase at all some have said that will get better as it "breaks in".  We'll see.

A rifle as high quality as the AUG doesn't need a break in period. Their tolerances are precisely machined as to not need that.  I had an AUG and it had a preference for milspec 5.56 and
always did as I owned the rifle. AUGs simply don't like cheap ammo.

I'll look for it today; can't remember if it was youtube or HBO.  It had the skinny white dude with glasses that looks like a hipster that had gone to Big Sandy in past (Not too descriptive, I know).  What amazed me about Kel-Tec was the VOLUME of product. There was a room literally floor to ceiling with boxes of Sub 2000s.

ETA:  What kind of failures have you had with Wolf?  Did putting it on adverse help function at all?

I wonder if they sit on them to artificially create a scarce market for their firearms? If they do I've got to wonder why as many of their guns would fly off the shelf as fast as they made them.  I know the guy you are talking about I watched that Big Sandy shoot video with him in it.  

All stuck cases.  Adverse setting seemed to make it worse.  I'd pull the barrel on each one one put my multi tool on the casing and twist until it came out.  Each time there was obvious carbon "rolled up" on the casing from where I twisted it back and forth to get them out.  The lacquer coated cases don't seem to have that problem but I didn't shoot a whole lot of those.  I broke a half case of Brown Bear/Barnaul out of my ammo pile to give that a run though and see if I can replicate it with the lacquer cases with a higher volume of shooting.

Yup that's that dude.  Sorry to hear about the Russian issues.  I wonder if someone with more knowledge of the AUGs operating system could explain the cases getting stuck; perhaps the velocity of the bolt impacting rear ward gets retarded enough by the poly and carbon?  Does the extractor have any noticeable wear?

Extractor is good to go.  And it's ripping chunks out of the case rim haha.  I'll see how it goes after it gets more ran in.  I'll be out running 200 rounds of Barnul "Mil spec" 55gr (lacquer coated) tomorrow and see how it likes more of the lacquer coated stuff.

You chose...........


WISELY.

Like the design of the RDB much better, but would trust the AUG's QC far, far more. Plus, the RDB needs a more positive or locking detent on the gas regulator.

Yep an improved and clearly marked gas regulator and a heavier profile barrel an inch shorter are my requests

I'm waiting for the 20in barrel, not one an inch shorter than presently available.

Just goes to show the diversity of 'wants'...

But I, too, would like the gas regulator changed along the lines mentioned...

Forrest

I agree with the clearly marked as well as lockable gas regulator, and I would also like a 20" barrel.

I also want to see a redesigned bolt release. Does noone else find this awkward? When you insert a fresh mag on an open bolt, you will then move your hands in an upwards direction to actuate the bolt release. For that reason, it would make more sense for the bolt release to be able to be actuated from below, rather than from above. This would shorten the time spent on speed reloads.

I own both, I have to say (waiting to get pounced on for this) I like basically everything about the RDB better than the AUG. The ergonomics work perfectly for me, it has a better trigger, it's fully ambidextrous. It's somewhat less accurate than the AUG, but not hugely so.

That being said, if I could only have on, I would still buy the AUG. The AUG is battle proven and mine has been completely reliable. The RDB just doesn't have the pedigree of a military issue rifle that has been in service since 1977.

I have both and the advantage in accuracy can go either way depending on ammo used. Neither are built with sub-MOA intentions

I don't know about that. I shot my Tavor and RDB with the same walmart bulk ammo at the same distance in a single range session, and my Tavor produced MUCH larger groups than my RDB did, even when I was shooting my RDB at further distances than the Tavor.

But that wasn't the gun the RDB was being compared against.

I wouldn't expect sub-MOA of any bullpup (even with cherry picked groups).

Hmm. Another mod idea I have (although it's not a critical one, more one of personal preference) is to have permanent rail incorporated folding BUIS, much like those on the Tavor. With the Tavor, the buis folds down into, and becomes a part of the picatinny rail. I would love to see this done for the RDB. It would be possible if someone either machined a replication of this system for the RDB, or if someone took an existing rail from a Tavor, and cut it down for size for the RDB. I think this is more of a pipe-dream, but I would love for this to happen. The RDB is imo, the best semi-auto 5.56 rifle on the market today. It deserves every bit of optimization as much as possible.

Other potential modifications that I have heard about and think are good ideas, is a redesigned handguard that has Mlok attachments (which is in Keltec's pipeline), but also free floated (would be nice!).

One mod I think would be a fantastic idea is a trigger guard mounted bipod. Many people have noted that the barrel is fairly thin and is subject to shifts in POI when pressure is placed on underside of the handguard. Much criticism has been made of Youtube videos where the speaker shoots the RDB from the traditional setup where one rests the handguard on a rest, given that this method creates inconsistencies in accuracy. A bipod that can clamp onto the trigger guard (clamp onto the forward bend of the trigger guard) would eliminate this problem. It could project directly below the trigger guard, or be cantilevered forward for a more traditional fulcrum point. This would be an incredible boon to the RDB system!

I get the same results with some ammo... The AUG does better with some than the RDB and vice-versa.   If averaged out they are both about 2.5 MOA rifles and thats just fine for what they are.

It looks like the RDB is available in the 850 to 1k range.

How long has it been out now? I see videos from 2014 and 2015.

Have there been any really high round counts posted on them yet?

Kinda tempted.

X95 or aug.

 I have about over 3k through mine half suppressed. runs perfect.

The scarcity comes from making them in production runs by product type then switching the lines over to make another type.  When a production lot is sold out, you wait for the next run of it to be made and shipped.

The demise of Grendel firearms apparently didn't go over well with George Kelgren.
 He will not borrow money. He will not discuss taking on a partner.  Keltec is a 100% privately owned and debt free company.

I've owned plenty of KT firearms because I like their innovations...that being said...I'd never buy another KT product.

I always love how the KT guys always say...my KT blah blah blah works great after I sent it back to KT 4 times.  The reality is these firearms should work 100% out of the gate and none of the KT firearms seem to, so QC sucks with KT.

Comparing an AUG that has military usage and decades of usage over a POS KT that they cannot even seem to produce enough of any of their firearms is just laughable to me.

I would never trust my life to anything with a KT logo on it.

I'm not a KT guy ...only one 1 KT product ATM..  and like the great majority of people that own an RDB.....I havennt had any trouble whatsoever.   IME  ,  in over 3 k rounds...around half suppressed, the RDB has been every bit as dependable as my AUG...just as accurate and better ergonomically in every way.

I haven't sent it back a single time and it was one of the first batch production models they sent out with a 1/9 twist barrel.

I just got to finger a RDB today, and fell in love. I currently own 4 Keltecs, PF9, PMR, CMR, and Sub2k. They have all performed flawlessly.

Iight have to call that shop in the morning with my CC number in hand.

If it's gonna be a hard use truck gun I'd go RDB... better trigger and you can beat it up without feeling bad.... it will also suppress better.

Your hate is strong sir.

If your gonna be jumping out of helicopters to shoot bad ppl in the face neither will serve you better than a BCM anyway.  If your gonna beat the crap out of it (and shoot vermin that don't usually shoot back) I'd pick the keltec over the aug.

Way more AUGs have been to war than BCMs.

Come on man....a BCM is a quality built AR15. I would take an 11.5"  Bcm over an AUG any day of the week for a survival/battle rifle.  Better ergonomics and accuracy all the way around over an AUG.

Range toy or HD I would take an AUG...but I would prefer an RDB

This.

Want to see an out-of-spec BCM produced M4 stock? 

Want to see an overgassed AUG?..I can show you out if spec BCM upper receivers also....but there are a shit ton of BCM ARs out there that work just great.

There's way more AUGs out there performing in military service than there are BCMs.

One is proven. One is an epic piece of shit. Choose wisely, and follow your gut.

So what are you saying? That AUGS are a more reliable battle proven weapon than the AR ? Because if that's what you are saying...and you have to break down by brand in order to prove a point?  Let disabuse of you of that little fantasy...Colt and KAC compared AUGs...hell even just Colt ARs.

Yep one is proven lighter, better trigger , more adjustable gas, waaaaay better suppressed, 100% ambidextrous...and about $800 cheaper.
And one ain't

I just got an AUG recently and love it.  I wasn't prepared to pay the normal going rate for one, but in a round-about way ended up getting one with 3x optic and cut pelican case for $1550.  It's only been out for one range trip for about 100 rounds, but I took to it faster than my AR.  For all the hooplah about the AUG's "terrible" trigger, it is not that bad at all for me.  I understand why it has that rep, but in actual shooting performance it was fine.  I might even do better with a little mushy trigger, strange as that sounds.  I think it helps eliminate any anticipating/flinching on my part.

I really hadn't even heard of the RDB before this thread, but now that I've looked at it, sort of want.  It does seem to be an ergonomic upgrade (although I have no complaints about the AUG ergo wise, fits me like a glove).  But, keltec and all the reasons already mentioned :/

I'm glad you posted this, as I was planning on trying that on my next range trip with it.  

Really all I need now to round out the AUG is a weapon light and maybe figure out a sling setup that works for me.  Still fairly new to rifles in general and haven't really messed with slings at all even on my AR.  And oh yeah, some more mags.

What is an RDB?  

There is no bullpup but AUG and Steyr is his maker.

I'm not the one who brought up the BCM comparison.

The OP already made the correct choice. You may go now.