Just here for the trainwreck

I got a weird feeling on this and jumped out of the group buy in the first couple weeks.

So glad I did.

Sorry for all you suckers that put money down for one of these. I would encourage you to request an immediate refund and if they refuse make a theft report with your local agency before the statute of limitations expires.

So the "supplier" is a week behind & this = a 3 week delay. Makes perfect sense.

It's been a few weeks out for nearly 2 years.

Two more weeks...


Edit: What else is coming out over the next couple of years? Lithgow AUG, SAN 308, CZ Bren 2, Daewoo/S&T new imports , Tavor 308, Magic Fireball Spells? What else are people excited about before MDR's ship?

A .308 Tavor would be cool. A 6.5 Grendel Tavor would be amazing.

As someone who is from South Korea, I would jump on the wagon to get a Daewoo if they were to ever import them again. But I doubt they ever will. :/

Disappointing but not surprising update.

The only way they would surprise me is if they said "They're ready to ship" when they promised they would ship.

Nah, only thing I'd believe would be someone here posting an unboxing video and showing a production rifle.  You just know "They're ready to ship" would be followed up with "Fly-by-nite shipping company has taken our first container of rifles and they're caught up in some kind of federal investigation, so it's out of our hands. So sorry.  Someday the feds will turn loose your rifles and you'll all just love how accurate these things are and how much more supermodel sex you'll be getting!"

Sorry to hear about the supplier issues.  From the peanut gallery (not on the wait list, and not likely to be an early purchaser):

I have a somewhat different take on blame assigning.  The subcontractors and suppliers for a company - ARE the company.  They are hand-picked, vetted, contracts are negotiated, a few drinks are had with some buds who've done work with them previously for a little extra vetting, etc.  All to make sure that a quality reliable supplier is selected.  Because the supplier for your company and product - IS your company and product.  Especially if it's a supplier of critical components integral and custom to your product.

Trust me, I know this first hand - and have had plenty of blow-back I've had to deal with when my personally chosen supplier, vendor, or partner screwed it up.  Their is no difference between your supplier, and your employee on your floor.  Exact same thing, as far as the customer is concerned.

Amen, this has all of the ear marks of the Vltor Bren Ten.

Agreed that the subcontractors are a reflection of the company. At the end of the day they are staking their companies name on the products from said contractors that are incorporated in the final product.

I'm of the opinion now that they are just an inherently dishonest company. They are tight with information and only change information like the products weight on their website when confronted by angry customers of it being wrong. Add to that the perpetual next month with a lame excuse pattern of late as well as updates from as far back as January 2016 proclaiming they just started making production rifles then mysteriously oh uh we are testing still. Or flying reviewers out in December 2014 to shoot 3D printed prototypes to drum up hype about a supposedly soon launch. Also some people defending their feet dragging have claimed they are doing NATO certification tests. I don't remember seeing any updates about that but if that claim was made what tests. I can't find any rules or test protocol on the net for such a thing and I don't think it exists. The closest on a quick search I can find is a power point presentation from a .mil website basically saying anything goes but they want member weapons to use the same round. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009/infantrysmallarms/wednesdaysessionvArvidsson.pdf

That doesn't even bring up the Pakistan thing that looks fishy as hell which I've brought up before. I mean what's more likely them turning down a $15 mil contract on moral grounds then years latter selling the same type of rifles to a middle eastern distributor to then sell to whatever potentially American hating group they desire? Or a small company competing against big established arms manufacturers realizing they probably won't win a contract and deciding to concoct a story that nukes their chances of winning the competition while gaining huge amounts of free positive press from sympathetic news agencies that will do exactly zero follow up research?

I bought a optic for a theoretical future MDR years ago it's been on 2 different rifles now. But with the price/weight increases and the way the company has carried itself it would take years of positive MDR reviews to stoke my interest again. I wish they would be open like the Hill & Mac guy who has done multiple long interviews with inrange tv and viewer supplied questions and possibly change my perception of them and their antics but I don't see that happening.

Exactly.

At the end of the day its just another gun that the fascination will wear off of and on to the next thing for a lot of people.  Hell I was buying 2 of the fuckers and I dont even need one.

Another words its fascinating to me that they think they can continue to degrade their credibility without costing them anything in the long run.


They have a small market of gunowners interested in bullpups in the first place not to mention a $2500+ bullpup.  Even with all those hurdles they continue to lie to the few customers willing to purchase immediately.

They at this point cannot be considered anything other than liars, plain and simple.  I am sorry but a dishonest company will not get that much of my hard earned money just on principal alone.

Robinson has never really recovered from their poor customer service.....I don't think they ever will.....and I liked them.....but a majority of customers were less well inclined.

Desert Tech has really hurt themselves with this....and it was all avoidable.  It's gong to carry over to their other sales, too.  Which is a damn shame.

Anyone that's still in would be in if DT fucked their wives and emailed the video to their boss. It's battered wife syndrome at this point.

Man, that's pretty sharp recoil on these suppressed rifles. One of the guys giving their thoughts said something about the rifle not being meant to be suppressed. I thought these came with an adjustable gas block.

ETA: Also, did I read right that the 7.62x51 version will ship first, followed by the 5.56?

Yeah they've been saying for a while that the 5.56 versions will ship after the 7.62, which is fine by me as i'm in the 7.62 category and to be honest i'm just sticking the GB for amusement factor now. That video made me throw up a little in my mouth.

DT will never release the MDR at this point.

I am sorry but all these "supplier" excuses won't cut it.  That is just bad management from DT right there and not owning up to their weakness.

If you have one reserved. I would request a refund as well. This is something that could bankrupt a small company like DT.

And yet if you look at some others who have shot it, they handle the recoil quite well.  I really think it's people who are expecting no to little recoil and just aren't holding it properly.

You know for a fact that DT will never release the MDR?  What is your source other than "opinion"?  Given that a recent video showed the rifles in production, I think your *opinion* is a bit premature.

Lol! Premature?


Really?

His opinion is the only one bolstered by facts so yeah hardly premature unless 15 months is considered premature.

Hardly 15 months, let's not exaggerate things.  He has no facts other than it's been delayed, and yet to refute the whole, "never going to ship BS" is the recent shoot at the NRA show, videos showing the rifles in production, and at least one dealer with an ETA on delivery (mentioned during the NRA show, so it isn't "old news").

I spoke to one of the DT reps at NRAAM yesterday. Take this with some grains of salt since he is a marketing guy.

He stated at this point the focus is on getting the 7.62 16" rifle, followed by 5.56 16", then 20" barrels. He doesn't believe the company will meet the timeline put out in the last update, rather he expects it will ship sometime this year (He was adamant that it isn't vaporware, not matter how long it takes). When asked about the MDR-C he said it has been put on indefinite hold until the base rifle and accessories are out.

Yeah it is my opinion.

The fact that DT is giving lame o excuses all the time is concerning. I've been around businesses who do the same thing what DT is doing right now (indeed not in the firearms industry) and 95% of the time they do not deliver and if they do...their products are crap with many issues.

I am one who sold his TAVOR to fund a MDR over a year ago. I almost preordered one online and held off until I talked to them in person. Once I talked to them in person it cemented my reasoning to hold off on this unicorn until one or two years after it gets released (if it ever will).

The irony of this, is that in the duration of time DT has spent F'ing with this, the .308 shine is being supplanted by the 6.5 market.  Speaking just for myself (but I suspect others) - they have spent so much time F'ing with this that the market has changed.   Personally, even if this turns out to be a 0.5 MOA bullpup at $1700 and 8#, I have no interest in .308 anymore, and am only interested in a 6.5CM/260 version.

Obviously the entire market hasn't changed and .308 isn't going away, but seriously, in the world of people who are serious and competitive about shooting longer distances, .308 is dying fast.  And the whole point of this gun for me, is a compact distance shooter.  The power advantage of .308 in close range is an irrelevancy to me, and kind of pointless for my interests.  The whole point of the powerful round, is to hit stuff far away (and hit it hard).  And the 6.5's are proving to be handily beating the .308 in that role, from all accounts I'm seeing.  



At the pace DT is going, they might as well be making it in 45-70.

Please, go on. Regale us with tales of how many rounds you've personally fired, both suppressed and unsuppressed. You're clearly an expert.

The way the rifle recoils is observable and measurable. An individual's ability to handle said recoil is not in contention. The way the rifle jumps, especially the muzzle, is unlike many semi-auto .308's that I've fired and/or observed being fired.

All you've done in this thread is worship at the feet of DT. I haven't seen you comment once on the real issues plaguing this bullpup other than getting defensive about the well-deserved flak. If you have a rebuttal, post some real data points rather than cryptic suggestions of insider knowledge.

15 months is not an exaggeration. I expected to have mine by fall bear hunting season of 2015, that was their initial ship date. Aug 2015 to May of 17 is the delay so far, and it still hasn't shipped.

Well if that's the case DT should just say that then. Honestly their CEO and their PR guys have the IQ of a dead cow at this point if they can't figure that out.

Being the DT insider you are you should remember the months leading up to Christmas 2015 with people reading between the lines of their posts in hopes of a release at that time.  

Okay we know what assuming leads to so lets even forget what I just mentioned and go with the concrete fact of DT saying at Shot 2016 that they had begun production and will gladly take your money.  At worst going off of info provided by DT we were told 2nd Quarter 2016, so here we are 12 months later, 15-16 months from them taking money, and my math is supposedly exaggerated.

Well ok then.

I couldnt agree more.

Honestly at this point give me a 6.5 grendel in a smaller lighter platform.

There is no room for reasonable facts in here


I gave up on group buys and vapor ware after working in the industry. Unless there is some smoking discount or other perk I'd much rather let everyone else work the flaws out.

I never claimed I was an expert, nor am I passing off my opinion as fact, unlike some others.  If you don't cherrypick and watch all the videos of people shooting it (both at NRA and at SHOT), you'll see that most of them handle it quite well and that their reports are that the recoil isn't anything out of the ordinary.  Bad form is bad form, and if you go into something thinking that it's going to recoil less than a mouse fart then you're going to have trouble handling the rifle.

What annoys me is the constant negativity, repeating of opinions until people take them as fact, and the general absurd speculation that has no basis in reality.

The rifle wasn't even for sale until January of 2016, so your desire to have it for hunting season of 2015 isn't really DT's fault since they hadn't even accepted a pre-order.  They then said it would ship ~June 2016, so right now, we're 11 months late.  That's hardly 15.

I've said for a long time that DT has a severe communications problem and every time they have a chance to score points with the consumer they fumble spectacularly.  Engineers should *not* be doing PR, and it seems that that is what DT has had staffing their booth historically.  DT also needs to have a meeting prior to the show with "do's and don'ts" that they can and can't discuss, and then get everyone on the same page regarding answers.

Do I blindly accept everything DT says or does?  No.  But I'm also getting butthurt and taking it personally that they want to avoid the Kel-tec syndrome that rushes product to market that they've claimed has been tested and tested, yet the consumer is the actual beta tester and the rifle exhibits severe manufacturing and reliability quirks.

I've never claimed anything and your sarcasm is misplaced.  "People read between the lines..." is not DT stating it will be released on a specific date; that's people allowing their hopes to define their reality.  DT said a lot of contradictory things at SHOT 2016, so I discount a lot of it because of that.  I've said this before, here and elsewhere, engineers should not be on the floor promoting their product at a trade show where anyone can get in (and yes, IMO that is exactly what SHOT has become - everyone and their brother who aren't involved within the industry seems to know "someone" who can get them a pass and so SHOT has become nothing more than a gunshow where you can't buy the guns).  There's so much rampant speculation and contradictory stories because these reps are being run ragged by people who really shouldn't be there and mistakes will be made.  

But that's just my opinion...not claiming it is fact...

A 6.5 Grendel bullpup would be pretty sweet. I've been following the severely long thread about it in GD periodically and my interest is piqued enough that I was considering buying a barrel and bolt and converting one of my existing ARs. Right now apathy over figuring out where I put my vice and setting it up to change a barrel is keeping me from doing so.

Also can we cool it with the mudslinging guys. Tech forum and all that not GD pee on each other to establish dominance .

Plenty of room for varied opinions and discussion. Being a free marketplace of ideas if you disagree present your side those who disagree will counter and the consumers of said ideas will chose who they agree with.

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Freudian slip??

Yes, quite!  

At the rate this is going, before this thing is released, Beretta will have gotten the phantom .300BLK quick change barrel for the ARX-100 to market, and Colt will have a phased plasma rifle, possibly even in the 40 watt range.

In the latest video the Italian guy is a lefty and shooting with the casings zinging right by his face. I wonder why he didn't or wasn't allowed to switch ejection port covers? Shouldn't have taken but a second and could easily be switched back for the next guy, right?

Probably because they won't make it ambi now. Just watch.

Perhaps it didn't bother him and worked as it was supposed to?

I was thinking that one of their vendors is running behind so that won't be available until 6 months after the initial release

Man...are you a paid DT spokesman?!? HAHA You can't take any negative DT criticism can you?

Glad you mentioned that. I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't that have been a great opportunity to show off the flexibility of the platform?

You know, I've always really enjoyed schadenfreude. Watching other people cock things up for themselves has always given me a giggle. And while I am enjoying the schadenfreude from watching Desert Tech make yet ANOTHER excuse about how the delays are TOTALLY NOT THEIR FAULT YOU GUYS, I do have to admit that I comes with a pang of pity for the MDR. It was a promising design. Modular, forward thinking, advanced, and a good balance of features while keeping operating the weapon simple and intuitive.

But anyone who isn't blind (or blinded by fanboi disease) can see that not only did DT screw the pooch in the way they've handled the production and promotion of the MDR, they wound up killing the poor pooch after they keeled over when they busted nut, landed on top of the beast, and snapped it's neck.

The bullpup market is a fairly small one to begin with, and despite being small it is fairly over saturated with high quality products. In the time since DT announced the MDR companies like IWI, Steyr, and KelTec have introduced either upgraded versions of their existing rifles, or entirely new weapons all together. The market for long range calibers is shifting from .308/7.62x51mm to the various 6.5mm cartridges. And on top of all that, but the Modern Sporting Rifle market in general is starting to cool off now that we have a PotUS who isn't hostile to the Second Amendment.

So factor all of that in, and add in the mishandling, bumbling, excuses, and boasting by DT, and you can see that this once promising rifle has become quite the joke to many firearms enthusiasts. It's really funny and really tragic all at the same time, but I hope it can serve as an example to other firearms manufacturers out there to keep mum about release dates until you're actually close to having a weapon ready for production.

Nope, not paid at all...just tired of all the BS opinions about the gloom and doom that is just *absolutely* going to happen and the constant parsing and making mountains out of nothing.