Not sure if it has been mentioned but ,

2010
carry handle 1x optic not produced anymore.

grenade launching feature and GR on gas regulator/housing not produced anymore. Reason –– confusing for consumers and causing rifle returns.

some new E4 rifles reported to have STG barrels on them to reduce STG barrel overstock. Same time frame MSAR looking for opinions on what to do with overstock STG parts.

MSAR moves facilty to NC ? , promises new products and website.

Dave ( customer service } Robertson leaves MSAR

Rizzo5586  ( engineer ) leaves MSAR

While these may not be updates to the rifle i feel they are important historical facts that help round out the production and history of the MSAR rifles for those reading this thread, please correct me if im wrong in any area's.

So it appears that MSAR has produced different bolts.  Could we get a list of the different bolts and descriptions or pics going?

OD green MSAR with 1.5 optic AND pic rail

The gun is LNIB with 200rds according to the owners.

7 30 round mags and 4 42 round mags...all factory.


he thinks its a gen4, is that good or bad?

what is a good price for this package?

I have a STG 4E that takes AR 15 mags.



If someone has hosting space, I will send you pics of it disassembled if you want.



PM me.

I'm seeing different twist rates between the 16 and 20" barrels. Is this correct, or are they all 1/8" twist?

My 16" is 1/8.

If you really want to know, measure it. Mine is a 20" marked 1/8, but is actually 1/9. There are several ex-employees on here who can confirm this from the batch number on your barrel.

I don't have one yet. Will hopefully be in the market for one soon, That's why I asked.

hi,

a friend of mine was asking if a gen 1 msar stg 1.5x optic will work with a gen4 msar stg556 (not e4)

he just wants to know it will sit right and not too low or high.

thanks all

MSAR receivers are all the same; take the same optics and rails.  Whether it's too low, that's something that is subjective.  Some folks with big faces can't smash them down enough to see through the low STG optic.

Oo ok. I was worried the 1st gen optics were diff in height than the 2nd,3rd,4th gens. So slaaping an optic from a gen 1 to a gen 3 or 4 would still get all shots on paper at 50yds?

There are MSAR optic heights: low and high.    

They are fully adjustable optics with windage and elevation turrets.  Doesn't matter how high over the bore they are.  You can adjust the point of aim to your desired zero yardage just like any other scope.

thanks so much for the quick responses. someone offered me a gen1 optic for $260 shipped...is that a ripoff?

Considering they aren't making them anymore, that sounds like a good price.

What is the reason MSAR refers to the rifle as E4-556 and the barrels marked 556 but yet the receiver is engraved 223 not 556 just curious ?
Thanks for any info.

What is ment by squar or round lock?
Does some one have pics they can post?

It's the part that locks the stock to the receiver. Steyr's have always been squared-off.  MSAR started out using a rounded lock, probably to keep their parts proprietary, but eventually switched over to the square lock.

Do you mean rounded off at ther top corners?
I have never held a real Aug for more than a few seconds  before.
I guess a better way to ask is , What kind of lock is this? Can this rifle use Cheap Aug mags , or am I stuck with the STG mags that are hard to find?

That's a square lock.  When you see a rounded lock, there's no doubt about it.

The shape of the lock has nothing to do with which mags it can take.  The earliest STG stocks had raised ribs inside the magwell to prevent Steyr mags from being used, but 2 minutes with a nail file would remedy that.  The best indicator is the forward assist.  If the stock doesn't have the forward assist, it will take Steyr mags without modifications, but again, it's a super easy fix.

Thanks for that info. I have one of the forward assist stocks, so I am going to try this.

One question though, will it still take the MSAR mags?

^ I meant after you file down the ribs.

Yup, MSAR mags will still work no prob.  I used to have a pic of the difference in the magwells somewhere, but I can't find it.  If you compare mags you can see where MSAR left a channel down the sides of their mags to interface with the ribs in the magwell.

Thanks again for this info!

Great info, thanks for posting it.

Here's my E4



I'm a lefty and this works great and was simple to convert thanks to ratworks. I love this gun.

So, is the MSAR in production again?  I can't find anything that directly tells me whether or not they are being made again.

be nice to have pictures of the listed model differences

I'm slightly confused.

Is the E4 a gen IV or gen V or something that evolved with the others gens?

What’s difference in gen 4 vs 5?

I’m a lefty and looking at a msar xm17e4 in the 10,000 serial number range. Do you have to get a lefty special bolt or bcg from somewhere forgot the name. I’m taking it they don’t make them anymore? If I need to replace mag release to metal one is that still doable to get? Thinking not on both things I asked about. It’s in real good shape and mag release works and I would like to get it but I’m a lefty. I want to make sure I can get it fixed and get parts for it. If not then be a turn off on it. Thought?

Thread resurrection. Wow, it's been a while.

I have a very lightly used E4 I've been thinking of selling and this thread just reminded me of that.

M4, let me know maybe we can work out something. I sent you a pm. My email is [email protected] maybe interested in yours instead of the one I’m going to look at again Monday if price is right. I seen them for $700-$800 avg here on avg. I have seen couple higher.

Customized Gen 3 I used to own.
Wish I had it back.
Started out as an ODG 20" and MSARDave, Adco, 2020, and the members here helped me hugely to make it awesome.

Good to see there is at least still some discussion regarding these rifles. My dad, myself, and a buddy pre-ordered the special edition kits the day that Microtech announced. $2k+. Release date was a ways off; so we were paying for final r&d; advertising; etc, and I was fine with that. I was fine with problems, with sending it in for repair/upgrade; I bought a gun from a knife manufacturer…I get it. Of course future guns would be made with the latest updates…but to delineate those updates as subsequent generations instead of what it really was is unforgivable from a customer service/retention perspective.

I got a green one; dad got the tan. My buddy got that black.

I’d like to sell or trade it. I have the special edition as it came, except I have misplaced the 42 rounder. I have a steyr 42 rd mag; looks like I can file some grooves down in the mag well, and it will accept both styer and msar mags? This is true for all models designed to take msar mags originally? Once Tony started with all the revisions I lost track…not even sure which stg-556 mags will fit…all of them, or does it have to be gen 1, or 1 and 2, etc? I’d buy a msar mag if I knew it’d fit.

btw Tony, thanks for being so much in a hurry that you needed to constantly revise the gun, releasing it well before it was ready, and then in true Microtech fashion, attracting as many new customers as possible while forgetting about the concept of existing customers asap (Microtech is infamous for the “forever room”; if you sent a knife in for warranty repair without talking to the right guy (Mike maybe), and someone didn’t take care of it that day basically; there was a 90% shot it was going in the forever room. What is what it sounds like. A room full of Microtech knives that I would bet are still there; knives do not leave the forever room)  

Tony of MSAR (same man; same quality of character as Tony of Microtech) decided…instead of doing what every single other decent firearms mfg does (please correct me if I am wrong), instead of providing the updates as an option, since I would prefer to not pay for continued r&d for a gun that I paid $2k for; I expect that if parts are required to be modified or changed because Tony released a gun that was not finished…I should not pay for them…but, I’d rather do so than have the resale value destroyed by releasing a slightly improved gun as a new “generation”.

But we didn’t get revisions for different features and functionality (save for the e4/one that take AR mags…I can buy that…barely. Maybe even the flattop. But that’s pushing it. All other upgrades/repairs should have been an optional paid upgrade or new purchase only. Same gen Not a new gen to  replace the previous one.

Glock revisions were how many years apart? And aside from a rail; you can hardly say gen 4 is better. Some prefer to run a Gen 1. They are both desirable. How long from gen 1 to gen 2 on the msar? How long was my gun seen as a desirable model before replaced by a superior one?

The msar generations seem to be nothing more than fixes which could and should have been taken care of the first time around and at the least sent in to be updated. There was no reasons to have separate generations, the only real impact it had, as opposed to making a fix and applying it to the new models and offer to upgrade if someone sends their in, was to make the previous generations worth less and less for no reason other than it makes the Gen 3 sound like an improvement.

Im wrong all the time, but I don’t recall a launch of a firearm that was not ready when it went out, and as they fixed the issues, they sold new generations instead of fixing the problems with the weapons sold; punishing early adopters…as everyone knows you should. So Tony took our $6k preorder; enjoyed that cash no doubt; I’m sure the special edition preorders helped finish bringing it to market; tidy up press releases, order most of the cleaning kits (ours didn’t come with one, and Tony did not deliver in his promise to get some out to us. Upsetting; as no matter how trivial a cleaning kit may be; it’s part of the special edition, there is a hole for it in the case foam, makes it look like it’s missing something, rather than a complete collectors item as it was advertised.

Not sure how Tony expected his first customers to feel about the special edition being “obsolete” and worth considerably less than it would have been had he handled the upgrades in a remotely reasonable manner rather than throwing the customers for each “gen” under a different financial bus.

Those of us who knew the Tony that made knives weren’t surprised by this. But…from my perspective…he gained nothing by releasing generations rather than address problem issues with the older (but still veeery new) model, and continuing to sell the MSAR STG-556 gen 1 with the needed upgrades as they were developed. But by doing it the way he has, he has cost his customers untold amounts in resale…for no reason whatsoever, and he has not made more money this way…show of hands for anyone who grabbed a gen 1, and then later sold or kept it, and bought the most updated version to have the best working version (not talking about stuff like a different stock that accepts AR mags, or even a flat top…I can see those as separate models…but internally they should have been all the same)? Probably not a lot of hands up. I can’t see because it’s the internet.

Making different generations should only be done with really significant revisions (even then…), otherwise you’re screwing over the customers that trusted you most and bought early. Lesson learned.

I won’t be giving MSAR any more of my money (edit; that’d be impossible since they are defunct…), and the AUG “replica” market has opened up a little since the STG…I’d love nothing more than to unload this disappointment and replace it with something that I will be able to get parts for in ten years (I may be overreacting, maybe it’s not as obsolete as it seems…I still don’t want a partially finished gun).

Messed up part is, it’s a pretty great gun. Shoots and handles well; optic is clear…I definitely “get” the AUG appeal.

I have sold all my Microtech knives (save for a scarab that I’ll never get rid of; he got that one right) and don’t plan for more. I’ve never felt less supported or appreciated for funding a product release by trusting in a preorder than with the stg-556; I’ve never had resale value just stripped away like this has been.

Is the gen 1 even worth a damn anymore, even with the special edition? It’s a gorgeous piece…looking at it now I remember why we just “had” to have them. I just wish we had waited for other AUGs to hit market.

Signed; frustrated former Microtech devotee…this is the part that makes no  sense; I have spent thousands on Tony’s innovations; I was a true believer like so many. I doubt that Tony has not been negatively financially impacted by those like me who are done with him because of his way of “doing business” (if you think I’m being over critical of Tony…you probably were not too plugged into Microtech knives…we knew). My fault for spending the money, 100%. I knew better. Just hoped it’d be different. After all; Microtech knives don’t have generations…I don’t thiiink…?

Sure would like to get some of that $ back though…they’re unusual enough,I doubt I’ll know what it’ll bring until it’s up for sale, I know. Under a certain amount I’d rather keep it. Not sure what that number is.

If it needs repair, is that a thing?  MSAR is gone…is anyone else able to work on these?I can’t shoot it if I can’t get it fixed if it breaks.
I’d love nothing more than to get rid of it and grab a domestically made Steyer.

I have made some bad buys…this was the worst.  

Wow...  I can't and won't speak to Microtech's ownership/mgmt or MSAR's ownership/mgmt, as I don't know them nor have I had any interaction with them, but if that's how you feel about MSAR's business practices, then don't ever buy a gun from any other manufacturer since they all do that to one degree or another.  Early adopters always get the prestige of being the first with a new toy, but also the potential issues associated with a new "Gen 1". Same for cars, phones, and pretty much any other tech out there.  Hell, SIG makes even minor changes to guns that don't even merit a "Generation" nomenclature and doesn't provide ANYONE notice about it, etc, etc...  but can have material affect to the gun or accessories.  As an example, try fitting a new P226 with older P226 grips - they made a VERY minor change that prevents it and didn't even bother to update those who make accessories.  

How is what you describe any different from what any other gun manufacturer does, other than MSAR doing it...  faster?

Yeah, it sucks that they eventually stopped making their rifles, but with Steyr opening up manufacturing facilities in the US, they saw the writing on the wall.

I like my MSAR's...  no complaints with them.  One is an STG 556 Gen IV and the other is an XM17-E4.  Stocks are interchangeable (one takes AR mags and the other takes AUG mags).

I’ve owned a Gebirgsjäger Limited edition, for many years now. I can’t say enough good things about it. It was extremely well built. Given what I’ve seen with Aug’s, it’s just a better rifle. Sorry for your troubles. If you can get one, do!

No complaint from me either. Just wished the made spare parts available somehow.

It looks like Ratworx still has some stuff for the MSAR.

https://store.ratworxusa.com/search?q=msar

they do indeed