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hornady lnl swaging case feed attachment try this Ok so why is there a youtube video link button on the reply board yet it don't work? I swear this site has a system that is 10 years old and with NO capacity. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By AR-Bossman:
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ObAWK_9QU Ok so why is there a youtube video link button on the reply yet it don't work? View Quote |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Now I see, said the blind man,
The arm device is flipping the cases into the funnel to get them upside down, [youtube]https://youtu.be/Z7ObAWK_9QU[/youtube] |
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Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds... <---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind. |
Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
I really like this thread, thank you, OP. View Quote I don't want to get into a Ford vs. Chevy kind of argument. I went progressive because I want to load in bulk. I don't care if my press is Blue or Red. I just want the one that works the best for me. I had made a list of the positives and negatives of both presses. After this weekend when I try some things I will know what I am going to do going forward. My choice is keep both or sell one of them. Not really what I want to do but if it makes the most sense then I will. |
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Originally Posted By edgephoto: You welcome. I wanted this to be objective and not biased. I know when I was originally looking for a press it was hard to find any threads that weren't biased one way or the other. I don't want to get into a Ford vs. Chevy kind of argument. I went progressive because I want to load in bulk. I don't care if my press is Blue or Red. I just want the one that works the best for me. I had made a list of the positives and negatives of both presses. After this weekend when I try some things I will know what I am going to do going forward. My choice is keep both or sell one of them. Not really what I want to do but if it makes the most sense then I will. View Quote |
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So today I installed a few of the items I bought off Ebay for the Dillon. I installed the Swage-It kit and got it set up for sizing and trimming .223 brass. I ran a few hundred cases through. The are in the tumbler now and tomorrow I will try to prime them on the Hornady.
I did check a few cases to see if the Hornady with the new shell plate was different. In my 3 case test I am happy so far. Tomorrow I will know for sure. I do have to say the Swage-It does not really put a ton of force on the press. I don't see how the Swage-it will be an issue. The brass is the weak link anyway. You would rip the rim off the case before anything else broke. I am not so sure I want to sell the Hornady. I am not going to give the press away if I do decide to sell. If I get the Hornady dialed in and working 100% I probably will sell the Blue one. There are more things I like better on the Hornady. Tomorrow I will let you know if the priming problem is fixed. |
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I'm watching this as well. And even though I have 2 AP's, I have contemplated getting a 650 just for 223 brass prep. if the swage it worked as advertised. Being able to trim, size, swage all in one is a big deal when you're talking pulling the handle another 10k times.
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Originally Posted By Dano523:
Now I see, said the blind man, The arm device is flipping the cases into the funnel to get them upside down, View Quote |
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Originally Posted By AR-Bossman:
I'm watching this as well. And even though I have 2 AP's, I have contemplated getting a 650 just for 223 brass prep. if the swage it worked as advertised. Being able to trim, size, swage all in one is a big deal when you're talking pulling the handle another 10k times. View Quote If the Dillon with the swager gives me consistent primer seating I may end up keeping the press. The Hornady swager looks pretty easy and if you can get the case feeder working like the guy in the video that is pretty easy but it is still a separate operation and requires a handle pull. I have about 5000 more cases to prep and load I really do not want to add another 5k handle pulls. |
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While not perfectly germane to a 650 vs lnl discussion being able to do all rifle prep in one pass is a really nice thing. The swageit facilitates that. I just pulled an rt1500 out of the mail I got cheaply off eBay and it's worlds better than my 1200 since its so much quieter. I went through 3000 223 on my new to me 1050 in the blink of an eye.
That said outside of prep I find myself loading rifles on my rockchucker or t7 more just because I enjoy it and reloading mostly pistol on my 650 and 1050. I however just like having lots of presses of different manufacturers and types around. If space was at a premium I would have to cut back though... as it is I own presses far in excess of what I actually need just because I really enjoy them. Your decision will ultimately be a personal one, but the much greater reliability of the dillon case feeder and primer system always made it my preference over the LNL. I know plenty of people state theirs never gave problems, but the one I had was a bit finicky and required more babysitting than my 650. My 650 casefeeder has always been flawless. I will agree lnl ergonomics are better if hand feeding, but I don't know what your loading style is like. If I wasn't using a case feeder I wouldn't mind the lnl at all. The dillon is going to cost you more in the long run. Nobody wants to pay more but that's just what it is. If caliber conversion costs turn you off then the LNL is for you. There are inexpensive toolheads for the 650 available. These get good reviews. I had a whidden clamp toolhead for my 550 and 650 and could never divine any real difference so im pretty convinced that so long as there aren't any serious problems with the toolhead it won't make a lot of difference. Like others have mentioned as well the dillon just straight up holds value better too. If you plan to sell one and use the proceeds to correct the shortcomings of the other, you will find it much easier to sell the dillon and you will get a better price. The hornady you will be lucky to get much more than half of what you paid. |
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@redarts. I appreciate any constructive discussion. I am glad this hasn't turned into "buy Dillon because Hornady sucks". In my opinion both presses have as many issues as the other. Neither are ideal. I would love a 1050 but can't justify the expense for the press and caliber changes. I don't find the case feeder to be an issue with the Hornady.
Update: I tried priming my freshly sized and swaged brass on the Hornady. The new shell plate solved my problem of the brass not lining up radially with the primer punch. I primed 98 out of 100 cases. One case had a damaged rim and so that was not a press issue. The other case would not accept a primer. I hit it with my primer pocket reamer and it worked. I have concluded that I am not all that impressed with the Swage-It system. As was mentioned above the entry to the primer pocket is not beveled enough. This caused the primers to not have a nice smooth feel when seating. One case I had to ream to get the primer to go in. Not sure if I somehow did not swage that one or the lack of bevel combined with the CCI 41 primer was the issue. I have noticed the CCI 41s are a little tighter than the Wolfs I was previously using. So Plan to prime and load the rest of the 200 or so cases later today. If I have the same results, then the Hornady is winning it's place on my bench. I have one other issue that has annoye me since day one. Station 5 on the Hornady causes the case to tilt inward. SO this station really is useless except for crimping. Normally this is not a big issue but during sizing and trimming I like to run my cases through a Lyman M die to set neck tension. I could not use the die in station 4 because the Dillon trimmer was blocking the port partially. What I ended up doing was putting the M die on the press during loading. So now I am trying a fix and waiting for JB Weld to cure. |
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I’m betting that the Dillon stays dialed in longer without needing adjustment, but I’m eager for real world data. There are always a few LnL’s for sale, I’m open minded
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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So after playing in my shop all day I have given up on trying to fix the station 5 tilt on the Hornady. It really is only an issue for .223 and I only crimp in the station so it is not a problem.
I am not really happy with the quality of the swaging done by the Swage-It. I am very disappointed because I want this to work. It dow not put any bevel on the edge like a non crimp pocket has and what you get with a reamer. So that was a bust. I was hoping to size, trim and swage with one trip though the press. My carpal tunnel really bothers me after reaming a few hundred cases. I guess my next best option is the Hornady swager. I got my priming issue on the Hornady solved so really the Dillon and the Hornady are both doing the job. I like how the Hornady has a primer ready when you get the first case to the priming station vs. the Dillon which takes like 10 pulls before a primer shows up. The Hornady does not eject a live primer like the Dillon. So I give the priming system advantage to Hornady. I like the way the shell plate tightens down on the Hornady. You tighten the bolt and done. The Dillon takes some tweaking to get a perfect balance between free smooth operation and tight enough not to spill powder during indexing. Tightening the lock screw messes up the shell plate bolt adjustment so you have to work it a few times. I am sure after a while you develop the feel. The quick change bushings and the tool head are about equal in my book. I do give a slight advantage to Hornady because of storage requirements and you can dump the powder measure easier. Either system is good. For caliber changes I give the edge to Hornady. Mainly because of cost. Hornady gives you all the pieces you need with the press and case feeder. You just buy a shell plate and you are in business. I really would say both presses are equal. Both produce ammo in large quantity fairly quick. I will load with both for the next few months. Now I need to process a few thousand cases. I want to load some other calibers and see how they both do. |
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edgephoto, Very good observations on the differences of the two machines, but did kind of miss the mark of running the machines for say 1K rounds per batches instead.
The Plus-Marks you gave on the Hornady machine, turn into negatives really quick on higher numbers of batch loadings instead. With the hornady priming system, lacks a releif channel to allow powder fouling in the slider feed chute to self clear, so you get powder build up between the end of the slide and end of channel, and this leads to priming problems; until you pull the shell plate to clean the fouling. So your kind of right on the way you attached the Hornady shell plate being faster (Adding in a split washer so the nut holds is position helps so you don't have to keep tighting it back up), since you going to be pulling the shell plate during the batch runs to clean the primer slider track. What I will give a thumbs up on the Hornady, is the powder dispenser system, and light years better than the unit on the Dillon machine instead. Hence to get the best throws with a powder dispenser, you really want to be throwing spherical powder. With the Dillon unit, it's migration central unless you fit the dispensor with a tigher fitting charge bar like the Arredondo unit instead. Truth is, the Arredondo bar itself costs at mush as an entire Lee powder dispensers with Micrometer charge bar, and since you have to do fitting either way, the lee unit for spherical powder just works out better on the Dillion machine for dedicated dispensers on each tool head instead. As for caliber conversion costs, here too with a case feeder in play, the Hornady is much cheaper to convert, but take more time setting it up each caliber conversion instead Myself, when I have a machine set up, I do runs of between 1K~3k, before the machine is converted over for the next caliber. Like many, the cheaper inital costs of the AP drew me to it, but it took a lot of mods before that machine would run correctly for those amounts of counts. The Mod'd machine was sold to a friend that just had to have one (did not feel like moding another for him and why he got my mod'd machine instead), and I moved onto a 650 instead. The 650 was used for a few year, but since it did not swage primer pockets and I wanted to move up to a machine with a drive, it too was sold, and how I ended up with a 1050 isntead. So where I really see the AP being a great machine, if for someone that is not going to use a Case feeder isntead. Once you need a case feeder on the machine/trying to reload a lot of rounds quickly, then here is where the 650 that outshines the AP; flaws and all. |
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Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds... <---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind. |
Originally Posted By Dano523:
edgephoto, Very good observations on the differences of the two machines, but did kind of miss the mark of running the machines for say 1K rounds per batches instead. View Quote I plan to run the two presses side by side for at least 2-3k rounds. This weekend's work was to get them both up and running. Then I will process and load a thousand rounds on the Dillon and a thousand on the Hornady to compare. Then I will convert both to load .45ACP and do a side by side comparison. I am thinking for now that I will hang on to both for a few months until I make my choice. Maybe you can answer this question. How tall is a 1050 from the bench? |
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A little over 38" to the top of the feeder
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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Originally Posted By edgephoto:
@redarts. I appreciate any constructive discussion. I am glad this hasn't turned into "buy Dillon because Hornady sucks". In my opinion both presses have as many issues as the other. Neither are ideal. I would love a 1050 but can't justify the expense for the press and caliber changes. I don't find the case feeder to be an issue with the Hornady. Update: I tried priming my freshly sized and swaged brass on the Hornady. The new shell plate solved my problem of the brass not lining up radially with the primer punch. I primed 98 out of 100 cases. One case had a damaged rim and so that was not a press issue. The other case would not accept a primer. I hit it with my primer pocket reamer and it worked. I have concluded that I am not all that impressed with the Swage-It system. As was mentioned above the entry to the primer pocket is not beveled enough. This caused the primers to not have a nice smooth feel when seating. One case I had to ream to get the primer to go in. Not sure if I somehow did not swage that one or the lack of bevel combined with the CCI 41 primer was the issue. I have noticed the CCI 41s are a little tighter than the Wolfs I was previously using. So Plan to prime and load the rest of the 200 or so cases later today. If I have the same results, then the Hornady is winning it's place on my bench. I have one other issue that has annoye me since day one. Station 5 on the Hornady causes the case to tilt inward. SO this station really is useless except for crimping. Normally this is not a big issue but during sizing and trimming I like to run my cases through a Lyman M die to set neck tension. I could not use the die in station 4 because the Dillon trimmer was blocking the port partially. What I ended up doing was putting the M die on the press during loading. So now I am trying a fix and waiting for JB Weld to cure. View Quote I would have made a comment if it did happen. I have neither of these presses, so I haven't posted until now as I had nothing to add. Since this has become a very good comparison thread, I'm going to set the archive toggle to keep this thread out of the archives. When this thread eventually slips off page 1 edgephoto can click on My Topics in this forum and this thread will be there so you can quickly go to it. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
That makes two of us. I would have made a comment if it did happen. I have neither of these presses, so I haven't posted until now as I had nothing to add. Since this has become a very good comparison thread, I'm going to set the archive toggle to keep this thread out of the archives. When this thread eventually slips off page 1 edgephoto can click on My Topics in this forum and this thread will be there so you can quickly go to it. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By DRAINSMITH:
I must be cut from a different cloth. I don't see a problem as a problem, but rather as a challenge. I have once been called the Hornady "Guru" but that is so far from the truth. The truth is I am just too stupid to quit until it is perfect. The first thing I did was make sure I had a primer load into the primer slide every time. The next thing I did was adjust the pawl to where the primer would load every time I the adjusted the pawl to get the case directly under the dies. Now I thought I had it adjusted perfectly but it took so long to get it that way. So I built a timing kit so I could time any press in under 10 min. That is when I found out the timing I did by eye was way off the primer die was 5° off and the die was about 15° off. The next challenge I took on was the case feeder. The first thing was the case tipping over that was fixed with a shotgun case. The next thing was the pivot body twisting. I built a bracket to stabilize it. I then had to fix cases dropping into the case feed funnel upside down and jamming. This was done with a Hornady bullet wiper, a wire clamp, and a tube out of a spray bottle. Now the bullet feeder the only thing it need was a fine adjustment to the PTX, bullet die, and wipers. The only thing that bothered me was that damn thing is loud so to fix that I put a clear pot lid over it. timing kit https://i.imgur.com/E6e7xEfl.jpg shotgun case https://i.imgur.com/ZeVBP2ml.jpg pivot body brackethttps://i.imgur.com/uRA4AEKl.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/xSwypAwl.jpg Case drophttps://i.imgur.com/4bFo9b7l.jpg bullet feeder fix.https://i.imgur.com/sSMuxlxl.jpg View Quote Your shotgun mod and the pivot reinforcement have been picked up by Hornady. I noticed in the new instructions they have an anti-tip piece that looks similar to your shotgun mod and a bracket that clamps on the pivot bracket. I don't experience tipping cases and my feeder has not fed any upside down. In fighting my priming issue and getting the case feeder dialed in I have the timing spot on. What I was experiencing was the shell plate opening was too tight and some cases were not going in 100%. A new shell plate fixed that. Thanks to the guys here for measuring theirs and showing me what was wrong. Priming is now fixed. The only thing that is annoying but not really an issue is case 5 tilt with .223. I crimp in station 5 and the die will center the round. It is a shame nobody makes a progressive press that works with out mods. |
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The shotgun mod is called case feed tip part # 399677 and the pivot body mod is called cam block clamp part # 399691.
Hornady has come out with many upgrades from the breakaway cam plunger to the mid-size drop tube to the case feed tip to the cam block clamp. Now Hornady would not have made these upgrades had not the folks that think outside the box not let them know of the problem and their fix. Now, whenever I see someone that has come out with an idea on how to make the press better I ask them to let Hornady know off the problem and the fix. It may not help the individual but it may help getting a press that "works out of the box without any mods" because they will have already incorporated them. Now I have three more suggestions that I let Hornady know about. And hopefully, they will be coming out with 2 mods shortly. |
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Glad you put that baseplate and light kit to good use!
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Freedom costs a buck-o-five.
7.62 > 5.45 ---- It really does pound shit harder. |
"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Originally Posted By ScooterInVegas:
Keep snipping off small amounts of the spring till it stops splashing powder. Half a coil was better but 2/3 of a coil fixed it. To be clear, the top coil is flat and not counted as a coil. I cut the full flat coil off then 2/3 of the coil going down. That fixed the spilt powder problem for me. View Quote |
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USAF 1969-73
Norton AFB 1969-71, 63rd Military Airlift Wing Cam Ranh Bay RVN 1971-72, 483d Tactical Airlift Wing Dyess AFB 1972-73 |
Originally Posted By jefflebowski: What is wrong with your 650 in stock configuration (not swaging) that requires a modification(s)? View Quote |
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This weekend I did not get as much time as I had hoped but I still did get to do a test.
I wanted to spend some time with the Dillon and load some once fired cases. I have a few 50 cal cans filled with 5.56 once fired from a National Guard range. I decided these were the perfect test subjects. I tumbled them to get ready for processing. I set up one tool head: Station 1-universal deprime Station 3-Dillon RT1500 trimmer Station 5-Lyman M die I installed the Swage-It and I also install a spent primer adapter that allows a hose to connect. I ran about 5-600 cases through this process. I tumbled the lube off and shined them up some more. I then loaded a tube of primers and commenced loading. Out of 100 cases I had one primer that didn't seat correctly. Otherwise the primers seated with normal force. In all fairness this case could have been my fault. It took me a little bit to get in the rhythm and develop a feel for swaging. After today's test the Dillon is winning the place on my bench. Not because it is better built or a better machine but because of the Swage-It. I can handle the cases twice vs. having to handle them a third time to swage or ream. There is one thing with the Dillon I am finding to be an annoyance. I had this happen 3 times so far. I install the shell plate and adjust the torque on the center bolt so the press indexes smoothly. I lock the bolt with the little set screw. I double check it is good. Then after using the press I notice the plate is wobbling. I stop and reset the bolt's torque and then it happens again. I need to look into this more. I will call Dillon this week about it. |
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Originally Posted By edgephoto:
Sure we can all 3 get together. You guys can try out both presses and see what you like. Both are good and have their pluses and minuses. I will get the Hornady squared away this weekend. I found my original shell plate was made a hair too tight for LC brass. Thanks to a member for measuring his. I guess I assumed my plate was not the issue. I should know better. Now I have to decide. Keep both or sell one? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By edgephoto:
Originally Posted By CTjer:
Originally Posted By edgephoto:
Originally Posted By Firefoxammo:
Invite me over and teach me how to use that 650. Ive been eyeing the 650 just haven't pulled the trigger yet. I live in North Haven Not this weekend. I want to get them both dialed in and running perfect. Maybe next weekend. Then you can bring some supplies if you want to load some of your stuff and try them out. Got the green light from the wife for a 650. I will get the Hornady squared away this weekend. I found my original shell plate was made a hair too tight for LC brass. Thanks to a member for measuring his. I guess I assumed my plate was not the issue. I should know better. Now I have to decide. Keep both or sell one? I've been following this thread as I have been using my Projector press for over 25 years. I picked up a LnL about 7 years ago. I contemplated the switch to the 650 about 20 years ago, and then again before I decided on the LnL, but the initial cost was prohibitive at the time. |
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If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the f'ing car!
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Originally Posted By imtheflash: CTHTF get together? I've been following this thread as I have been using my Projector press for over 25 years. I picked up a LnL about 7 years ago. I contemplated the switch to the 650 about 20 years ago, and then again before I decided on the LnL, but the initial cost was prohibitive at the time. View Quote Then you can bring your supplies and try them out side by side. Both are great presses. I want to be able to show you the plus and minuses for each press. |
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Originally Posted By edgephoto: I was hoping to size, trim and swage with one trip though the press. My carpal tunnel really bothers me after reaming a few hundred cases. I guess my next best option is the Hornady swager. View Quote I bought this just for the shell holder for trimming 300 blk in my Giraud, it might help with your carpal tunnel https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012862257/lyman-e-zee-trim-hand-case-trimmer-universal-set |
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If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the f'ing car!
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Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Couple of Dillon mods that are worth the money IMHO. UFO Light https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DncAAOSwiQ9ZRfKH/s-l1600.jpg Primer Stop https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UgUAAOSwmFpZseCB/s-l1600.png Crud Catcher https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TggAAOSwgVBZli6I/s-l500.jpg This is what I did for the primer chute. Its just a small tube that catches any primers. http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q782/Serwin007/IMG_20180204_150748_zpsjm9vh9la.jpg I took the aftermarket primer catch system off and when back to the dillon cup with the "tape mod" I kept getting primers caught in the tube, and they would back up. http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q782/Serwin007/IMG_20180204_150742_zpsrczfrjbk.jpg View Quote |
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We President now!
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Originally Posted By jefflebowski: What is wrong with your 650 in stock configuration (not swaging) that requires a modification(s)? View Quote Next is the lack of feel of when you are seating a primer. Hence you have the blunt end of the cam pin down the greased ramp block friction that you feel more than the primer entering and seating into the primer pocket. So by going to a ball bearing end cam pin that now glides down the ramp block as you are handling all the way back to seat a primer, all you feel is the primer and how it entering the primer pocket and seating instead. Truth is, when loading on a 650, I did such sitting down, so ball handle worked better than a roller handle for reloading sitting down, with the ball handle given even better feel feed back of what the primer was doing at priming too. Other mods are just added frosting on the cake. |
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Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds... <---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind. |
I didn't really find the roller cam thing to be much of a noticeable improvement to be honest.
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Originally Posted By Dano523: Going to sling powder out of a 9mm case on the index. So the mod here is a lighter detent spring, softer mylar index ball, and adjusting the machine so it pawl so it indexes the shell plate all the way to the next position (isntead of the barrel snapping the shell plate over the last of the way). Next is the lack of feel of when you are seating a primer. Hence you have the blunt end of the cam pin down the greased ramp block friction that you feel more than the primer entering and seating into the primer pocket. So by going to a ball bearing end cam pin that now glides down the ramp block as you are handling all the way back to seat a primer, all you feel is the primer and how it entering the primer pocket and seating instead. Truth is, when loading on a 650, I did such sitting down, so ball handle worked better than a roller handle for reloading sitting down, with the ball handle given even better feel feed back of what the primer was doing at priming too. Other mods are just added frosting on the cake. View Quote |
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Edgephoto, You need to get hold of Dillon and have them send you a "XL650 platform alignment tool" part # 13713. Then tear the press down to where you can see the detent ball. Then call Dillon and have them walk you through how to use it. It takes about a half hour to get it timed but it will help a lot.
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Originally Posted By DRAINSMITH:
Edgephoto, You need to get hold of Dillon and have them send you a "XL650 platform alignment tool" part # 13713. Then tear the press down to where you can see the detent ball. Then call Dillon and have them walk you through how to use it. It takes about a half hour to get it timed but it will help a lot. View Quote The other thing that is baffling to me with this press. Why doesn't the tool come with the press? They send it free anyway. Seems very odd. |
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Originally Posted By edgephoto: I got the tool from Dillon. They included a set of instructions with it. Too bad the instructions weren't the correct ones. The alignment tool came with mounting instructions for the Allen wrench kit. I am waiting for the correct ones. Not sure why Dillon just can't email a PDF but they have to snail mail them. The other thing that is baffling to me with this press. Why doesn't the tool come with the press? They send it free anyway. Seems very odd. View Quote |
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Originally Posted By Dano523: Yes, but once you have the index spring tension reduced and the mylar ball in place, they are not going to snapping the shell plate the last of the way in place isntead. So as you are adjusting the index block, index the shell plate a few position via the handle ,and pay close attention that the shell plate U slots are ending up centered on the primer ram. Hence not over indexed, or under indexed, but the U slot of the shell holder dead center on the primer ram. In this photo, you can see that the index block is over indexing the shell plate and the U slot is no longer centered on the primer ram . http://i.imgur.com/mpezTcG.jpg ___________________________________ As for the alignment tool that, just aligns the entire sub plate on the ram to the tool plate above it to begin with, and is really used if at any point the sub plate has been removed from the ram. What is not going to do is adjust the index block so it centers the slot on the primer ram instead. View Quote |
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Just wanted to chime in this has been an excellent thread to follow. I currently do not own a progressive, but will most likely take the plunge one day. It has been very interesting to see some good, objective discussion on two of the more popular options.
As the OP said earlier, I also don't care if my (eventual) progressive is Red or Blue, just that it will work for what I need it to do. The objective information and posts based on experience not just opinion from multiple posters in this thread is what sets this reloading forum apart from so many others. |
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Better, Faster, Cheaper - Pick Two!
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I received the tool and instructions from Dillon. My press alignment was spot on. This was not a surprise as indexing does not seem to be an issue.
The cases processed with the Swage-It tool are priming well on the Dillon. I did another 100 rounds today and had one squished primer. I will be doing a bunch more coming up. I then tried to load 100 cases on the Hornady. The new shell plate has solved my tight case issue but I think I need to spend a bit of time dialing in the new plate. I do not have the detent balls protruding far enough so the shell plate does not lock in enough and if I am pulling the handle too quickly the plate is not locking in on center. I just only had a half hour to try tonight. So I will clean lube and dial the press in perfectly. Then I will try to load 100 cases and see. So far neither press is "awesome". Both are good presses and each has their strong points and weak points. I want to run a batch of brass through each press to compare priming feel and reliability after a few hundred rounds. The Dillon seems to spill a bit of powder. I have the softer spring and mylar ball. It does not snap when indexing. The powder gets caught in the shell plate grove and the primer punch does not line up because the case is not all the way in. Not sure why this is happening. I need to look into. |
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It sounds like you’re still not completely aligned. Watch the powder drop station in slow motion, see if you can observe what is going on.
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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So today I cleaned and lubed both presses.
I got the Hornady dialed in. I had to tweak the detent balls a bit to get it to lock in a little tighter than I had it. I screwed up the adjustment pawls so I could dial it in perfect.After adjust the detent balls and my clean lube and adjust the press was working great. I primed and loaded 100 cases with zero issues. A couple of primers seated a tad hard. Then I checked the adjustment on the Dillon and also if the shell plate was centered as it advanced. Things looked good. I primed and loaded 100 cases. I had 2 primers not seat correctly.I am thinking I may not have swaged them correctly. I still am having little specs of powder on the Dillon. I had to blow it off a few times during the 100 rounds. This is annoying and if it builds up the shell does not go in the plate all the way because powder blocks it. Then primers don't seat right. I am not sure where the powder is coming from. The shell plate does not snap into position. It looks like the shell plate is centered. Both visually and because the primers are seating I am fairly confident the shell plate is in the right position. The shell plate center bolt is as tight as I can get it with out dragging. If I can get the Dillon powder issue solved I think I will keep that one. The Swage It seem to be working and this eliminates one extra step. Either running it through a Hornady swager or manually reaming them. |
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Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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When loading 223 on a Dillon using ball powder, it helps if you pause for 1-2 seconds at the bottom of the press stroke to allow for the powder to flow into that tiny 22 caliber neck.
That should help. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Wouldn't hurt to call Dillon.
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
Wouldn't hurt to call Dillon. View Quote So today I had less time than planned but I did get time to try and solve the powder issue. So I tweaked the indexing pawl a tiny bit and tighten the center bolt a hair. It seemed to help. Call me crazy but I am not any more impressed with the Dillon than I am with the Hornady. It appears that I just have to pick the press with the issues I can live with. I will do another run of once fired brass to test the swaging on the Dillon. I still prefer the Hornady for ergonomics and cost of caliber changes. As you can tell I am really torn. I have made a list of pluses and minuses for both presses. |
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Just keep both presses and continue to debug. Then you have each for when new part's and tools become available.
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Originally Posted By edgephoto:
I probably will if I can't square it away. So today I had less time than planned but I did get time to try and solve the powder issue. So I tweaked the indexing pawl a tiny bit and tighten the center bolt a hair. It seemed to help. Call me crazy but I am not any more impressed with the Dillon than I am with the Hornady. It appears that I just have to pick the press with the issues I can live with. I will do another run of once fired brass to test the swaging on the Dillon. I still prefer the Hornady for ergonomics and cost of caliber changes. As you can tell I am really torn. I have made a list of pluses and minuses for both presses. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By edgephoto:
Originally Posted By jefflebowski:
Wouldn't hurt to call Dillon. So today I had less time than planned but I did get time to try and solve the powder issue. So I tweaked the indexing pawl a tiny bit and tighten the center bolt a hair. It seemed to help. Call me crazy but I am not any more impressed with the Dillon than I am with the Hornady. It appears that I just have to pick the press with the issues I can live with. I will do another run of once fired brass to test the swaging on the Dillon. I still prefer the Hornady for ergonomics and cost of caliber changes. As you can tell I am really torn. I have made a list of pluses and minuses for both presses. |
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Originally Posted By jefflebowski: Have you done an extending reloading session with both, or only swaging? View Quote So now that I can load on the Hornady without priming issues I am focused on which press to keep. All things being equal the Hornady does it for me and I like it better for several reasons. The powder measure, the ergonomics, the ability to see all 5 stations when sitting in a good comfortable spot and a few minor things I like better than the Dillon. Add in the fact caliber changes are way cheaper, the Hornady is my choice. If I preferred the Dillon over the Hornady I would not be even debating this. The one thing that I hate dealing with is crimped primer pockets. The Dillon, via the Swage-It, has the potential to reduce brass prep work significantly. So this coming weekend I will prep a few hundred once fired Lake City cases and then load them on the Dillon. If this works I will probably keep the Dillon. If it doesn't work then bye bye Dillon. Some have mentioned keeping both. While financially I can afford it it does not make sense to me. It means keep two different sets of parts and things and takes up a ton of room. The Hornady takes a bit more finesse to get dialed in. The Dillon is easier in that respect. The Dillon's case feeder is much easier to dial in. However once dialed in the Hornady works fine. |
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Originally Posted By edgephoto: The short answer is yes. Loaded about 1200 rounds between the two since I got the Dillon. The Hornady I have had for 6 years and loaded thousands of .223 on it. Just never could get priming perfect. Finally realized the shell plate was a bit tighter than a new one. Thanks to you guys! So now that I can load on the Hornady without priming issues I am focused on which press to keep. All things being equal the Hornady does it for me and I like it better for several reasons. The powder measure, the ergonomics, the ability to see all 5 stations when sitting in a good comfortable spot and a few minor things I like better than the Dillon. Add in the fact caliber changes are way cheaper, the Hornady is my choice. If I preferred the Dillon over the Hornady I would not be even debating this. The one thing that I hate dealing with is crimped primer pockets. The Dillon, via the Swage-It, has the potential to reduce brass prep work significantly. So this coming weekend I will prep a few hundred once fired Lake City cases and then load them on the Dillon. If this works I will probably keep the Dillon. If it doesn't work then bye bye Dillon. Some have mentioned keeping both. While financially I can afford it it does not make sense to me. It means keep two different sets of parts and things and takes up a ton of room. The Hornady takes a bit more finesse to get dialed in. The Dillon is easier in that respect. The Dillon's case feeder is much easier to dial in. However once dialed in the Hornady works fine. View Quote |
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"You couldn't possibly understand an educated, squatch-cocked, freedom-loving, combat veteran, sexual tyrannosaurus like me. My entire existence is a foreign concept to you. " - DaringRaider
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Iv noticed that my LnL priming issue is after a speck of powder gets pushed into the slot for the primer "shuttle"
A quick pass or two with a file on the rounded end, to "flat spot" it, leaves a small gap for stray powder to go. Your not filing anything much more than a 3/16 flat spot. If any powder get in that area and the shuttle isn't seated, the priming ram spring wont pull it back out. If you try and stick a tube from your " can of air" in the new gap to clean out any specks....stick your finger over the primer in the hole of the shuttle, or that primer will blow out. ?? Iv ran several thousand rounds of 9mm, .40 sw ,. 223 and blackout and Iv never touched the Pawl's. Powder drop dies for each caliber makes caliber swaps a breeze. |
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I wrote that ...
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