Hello all, being new here I wanted to consolidate all my thoughts after a year of lurking into one post. I got into the platform last year, and have been getting ideas from this site since.

As it stands, I'm pretty happy with the accuracy of the upper I put together, but I'm seeking some guidance on areas for improvement.

The important stuff:
Faxon 20" barrel (dimpled it ), lopro GB, tube
ALG 15" handguard
Nikon Buckmasters 4-12x40 cheap scope & mount
Timney trigger
Magpul fixed carbine
Harris bipod



It is pretty accurate, but my fundamentals definitely need some work, as seen below. I'm hoping more practice does the trick. I will, however, start reloading soon, and I have a mountain of brass to start working on. So far, the only handloads I've tried were 55gr Bergers on 27.5gr CFE, and the gun loved them. What I'm not sure about is which direction to try first with the 20" barrel, less or more powder. Also, with the price of the Bergers, I'm tempted to try Hornady Vmax based on how well it's worked in factory ammo. The group posted is Hornady American Gunner 55gr match HP.



Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm looking to take this gun past 400 yards, so I need all the help I can get! Glad to finally be a member.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/42_Reloading.html

The AeroE accuracy load

I have good luck with 69 Sierra Match King and H322 or Varget

Wind is going to kill you with a 55gr bullet past 400 yds.  Berger makes excellent heavy bullets. But if you

want something less expensive, Try the Sierra or Nosler 77gr bullet.  Hornady 75gr match bullets work

well in many AR's and are probably the least expensive, especially when purchased in bulk.  Be advised

you need a rifle barrel with at least a 1:8 twist rate for these heavier (longer) bullets.

1.  Interpreting that picture requires understanding whether the two outliers were called by you (known bad shots) or whether they were caused by the ammo.  If it was the ammo, your gun does not like that load.  If they were called, and impacted where called, then the ammo is okay and you need to...  

Practice.  Practice.  Practice.  Perfect practice makes perfect.

2.  For longer ranges, use the heavier bullets (75-80 gr).  If your barrel twist is too slow for 75 - 80 gr bullets, get a different barrel.

Thank you all for the links and welcomes!

I should clarify: the barrel is a 1:8. It isn't the heaviest profile, but it does seem to be accurate with the Hornady bulk boxes.

The gun is primarily a paper puncher / prairie dog gun.

I'll be using Hornady cases mainly, all from the same batches. I have some Armscor that should be decent as well.

No idea on primers, I'm doing some digging on that. I'd prefer to avoid crimping.

The 55 factory loads have worked well, but a 69gr to help buck the wind on long prairie dog shots would be a big help.

To clarify, yes top and left shot were both called off.

Part of the reason I went with the 1:8 was knowing I might want to go with heavier bullets eventually. My understanding is it should handle 77gr fine.

Did some looking today, and I think the place to start with the long range load is here:

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/9377/224-dia-77-gr-HPBT

Maybe CFE or Varget to start?

For a 55gr load, my local reloading store has a great deal on 55gr Hornady match tip. However, they are cannelured, and while I've used cannelured Vmax, I don't know if that's the best choice. Maybe I'll get 100 of both and see where it goes.

55 grain Berger went on sale at Widener's otherwise I would have never tried them. I paid a little over $9.00 a box for them some time ago.

I have always been impressed with Hornady/Nosler/Sierra 52/53 grain match bullets when fired from AR-15's. It's hard to find any reasonable load that won't shoot them well. I have a 16" Colt chrome lined 1/9 twist H-bar that will group 10 rounds inside 3/4" at 100 yards when I don't screw up.

I have used faster powders when loading these bullets:

H322
AA-2105
LT-32
H-4198
RE-10X


26.0 grains of WW-748 works too. I prefer extruded powders so rarely try the ball variety.

I have been loading 22.3 grains of LT-32 lately with Hornady 52 grain match bullets seated at 2.200". Russian kvb-5,56m primers and Federal nickel plated brass (it was free). 2920 fps and 1" twelve shot groups at 100 yards. A little slow on the velocity (20" barrel) but 100% reliable and I can see my groups at 100 yards without using a scope. I'm 60 years old, so that's really saying something.

H332 is another powder I've been interested in trying... It seems like the consensus is Varget or CFE for the heavier rounds.

Thanks Nathan, here is a "before" picture of the pipe the new loads will be going down:

http://i.imgur.com/F0uSbh2.jpg

I need to find someone with a chrono to see what kind of speeds it's throwing factory loads at.

I too have had great results with 69 gn. Matchkings. That's a great looking group, though, OP.

I went ahead and decided on a starting load. I'm going with Hornady match in a 68 gr bthp, on top of Varget. Due to the good luck with Hornady so far, I think it makes sense to start there.

I can't wait to see how these long pills fly

My shooting wasn't great, but I'm happy with the consistency of the ammo. I started with 22.5gn, I think I'll start working up. Max is stated as 24.9gn.

I'm making small batches to work up, just got to 24gn and it's slightly compressed behind the 68gn bthp. Would it be a good idea to call it quits at 24gn and see how they shoot, or make a few more up to the max of 24.9 gn?

This is only an educated guess* - that bullet and 24.0 gr of Varget are going to make you happy.  


*  My guess is based on my experience shooting 75 gr HPBT bullets over 24.0 gr Varget.

As others have said, 24.0gr of varget under 75gr Hornadys or 77gr SMK/Noslers is the way to go. For the 62gr stuff, I have found Reloder 15 works well for accuracy, though I don't get the velocity.

My preferred load in my 18" Larue Stealth is all with mixed headdstamp brass, Federal 205M primers, Nosler 77gr BTHP and 24.0gr of Varget.

4 rounds at 100 yards, prone with a bipod. Best group I have ever shot. My rifle skills are lacking.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm going to leave it at 24gn for now and try out what I've worked up so far!

OP/Onthebreeze

I am honing in on your primary use, particularly PD.

I run with a crew of AR users of disparate makes and models that are dedicated to your stated purpose, all reloaders.  

The bullet that consistently works great in multiple AR's is the Hornady 50g Zmax (code 22262)/Hornady 50 g Vmax  over either H322 (my pref/most common) or XBR 8208.  

I rarely find an AR that a Zmax/H322 combo can't be tuned to.  A few rifles like XBR ever so slightly better.  The rest comes down to the shooter/reloader. In all examples in our crew, except for really rare examples, accuracy is found below max.  Primers don't seem to matter as long as you stay with the same one you developed your load with (crew is using CCI, Rem, and S&B).  H322 meters great.

The bullet is accurate, cheap (Zmax are 12 cents or less if you're a shopper, Hornady code 22262), shoots flat, and is devastating for your purpose.  Both powders are relatively temp insensitive  (stay below max), and headspaced to your rifle correctly, the combo is easy on brass below max.   Cheap (nice right - good PD territory = volume shooting), accurate, flat shooting, easy on brass, easy to reload, and devastating....perfect for this.

Regarding heavy weight AR bullets and the volume PD game, I routinely listened to/understand the unarguable windage data.   btdt     We choose and shoot the 50 g Zmax/Vmax for your stated purpose for multiple reasons....ymmv.    

Long story short.... test some 50g Zmax over H322 (and XBR if ya really want to) and tune to your rifle.  If you don't find the accuracy and performance you want with this combo, it will be a rare occurrence in my experience.  It's a great combo for generally taking the ammo out of the rifle/shooter/ammo accuracy question.  hope this helps

((fwiw .. All but a few in our crew are shooting AR's with heavy profile or bull barrels to deal with heat, in 18 to 24 inch varieties, but the combo works well in carbines too))

Preliminary results with the 68gn bthp are in, and they are not favorable. My shooting was very poor today, evident by looking at my orange target control group of Hornady AG Match. But also obvious is that the gun absolutely HATES my load.  
http://i.imgur.com/jfsd0XP.jpg

After my experience today, and past results with the lighter bullets, I'm definitely going to pick up some 50 or 55gn v/zmax, since I know the gun loves them. I'll keep working on the heavier bullets, but I'm going to work on the tried and true as well. As far as barrel, I've considered a WOA upper with a heavy varmint barrel, just want to see what I can do with this.

Hang in there.  Some days it just ain't your day (myself included).

If those were mine (particularly seeing a couple circle patterns)... I would say to myself (as you did) ... today I shot poorly.   And add, I am going to ignore these for now in my load development.   Again, happens to everyone, it certainly happens to me...stick with it, that rifle will shoot.   It can be frustrating.  That first group you posted as your starting post will tip over a lot of prairie dogs.

Unsolicited advise if you will indulge me, respectfully ... continue to hone your shooting and reloading skills as you are doing before throwing money at another complete upper (even though I like your potential choice).  

While I am not a fan of dimpled barrels because i am a harmonics junky, at the end of the day, there just aren't that many bad barrels out there these days.   Certainly more bad ammo than barrels out there imo.  

ignore today ... a couple of those may not be too bad if you have a better day.

Intended to be supportive.

question... how long did it take you to shoot those 50+ shots...and where did you start?  (Hot barrel question)

Absolutely, I appreciate the advice. I'll get it dialed in sooner or later.

In order: top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, then the control group on the orange. Probably 5 to 10 minutes to shoot a group, and then 10 or so to reload and look at the last group.

fair enough.   A little heat and potentially some eye fatigue in the end.  

I am in absolutely no position to talk fundamentals, or assume yours aren't 100% better than mine in the first place.   Your first 10 shot post up top tells me this ain't your first rodeo = plenty capable.    

That typed ... Speaking for myself, when I am testing or really interested in punching small groups on paper ..... for whatever reason I really need to remind myself not to overwork my eyes.    For me what this means, is shooting the way I know I am supposed to, and not intensely eye focusing on target for too long during shot making.   You did not suggest in any way you were intently eye focused on your target for too long.  I am just saying it's (too long hovering hoping it'll get better) is something I am aware of that I have to keep in mind, particularly if I am going to be testing a while .  I try to make a point to get my shot off with confidence as normal (or reset) and not to overwork my eyes when testing.   It's probably an age thing for me lol

Scored some 50gn Z-max for 12.4 cents a round, after tax. Not bad, IMO. I'm now trying to decide between H322 and H335. Any thoughts there?

Also loaded up some more 68gr BTHP on Varget, 24, 23.8, 23.6, and 23.4 gn. I'm almost out of them, I'm going to try to decide what to get next tomorrow. Leaning towards Sierra's.

H322 without hesitation.

335 is a ball powder that was a (dare I say gold) standard for years and years and years, many many many people swore by it (including me) because it was tough to beat for a long time, and many still swear by it.    It is still a good solid powder.    Varget has a similar following.

Times have changed, and powders have too (for the better imo).    Quite a few more good powder options these days.    Just saying btdt ... and H322 works better for me over H335 (as do other powders such as XBR rather than Varget with heavy bullets).  I mean no offense to those loading 335 or varget ... I get it...I still have my recipes using those too, I just don't use them anymore.  The right powder is the one that works for you in your stuff.

H322 is extruded.  Some extruded powders get passed over because long extruded powders don't meter well.   Not the case with H322, H322 is a fine/small kernal powder....meaning it meters well.  You will understand once your open your first lb and get a look at it, it flows great.   H322 is also relatively less temp sensitive than H335.   Additionally, some H335 reloading manuals direct the use of magnum primers for H335 ball to insure performance of powder across broader scenarios.... H322 manuals (or at least all the ones I have ever seen) don't direct magnum primers because it doesn't need them.   Standard primers are more economical/common.   Lastly, H322 burns/is cleaner.

Go with the H322

I believe you are shooting a 1:8 twist.   Some 1:8's reportedly won't stabilize a 77 gr bullet.   All of mine do.   If it were me working on heavy's.... I would test some 77 gr Nosler Custom Competitions without cannelure in your 1:8 before I ruled them out.   No crimp.  They aren't cheap bullets in small lots, but if you find your guns likes them ....they can be found from time to time for 18 cent'ish in 1000 packs. (If you dig a little you will find many who like them over Varget which you already have, that's fine.....but my pref with the 77's is XBR because it meters better and isn't compressed in my loads for just a couple reasons).

Moral of this post ... if you are going heavy, go as heavy as your barrel/magazine will allow ... your barrel, your twist the 77's should be just fine but confirm.   77's can be loaded mag length. Adding, at the distances that heavier bullets shine/matter, everything matters....getcha a powder that meters well.   my two cents, ymmv

I grabbed some h322 today. The temperature insensitivity and easy metering made it a pretty easy choice. I can't get a 77gn bullet locally, so I decided to try out some 69gn SMKs for giggles. They are very expensive, so I don't know if I'll "use" them unless they really click with the gun.

I also noticed my Hornady digital scale creeps, BAD. About 0.5gn off over the course of 10 loads. So that will need upgraded or warrantied to Hornady ASAP, taring every drop is tedious.

The gun really liked 25gn of 322 under the 50gn zmax. I'll probably go buy some more, since apparently they aren't making any more.

Hodgdon shows 24.0gr to be max for H322 for a 50gr bullet.  I've found 23gr of H322 to be pretty solid under 53gr VMAX, actually one of my favorite and most consistent loads.  Also has the advantage of having a stellar BC.  

Beauty of H322 is that it can be used with light bullets like you have found, but also has a sweet spot of about 21.6gr for 75/77gr bullets as well.  Turning into my primary power at this point.  

That's interesting, my Hornady handbook gives 25.2 as the max under a 50gn. I did finally get out and shoot a bit more today, and finally put together a decent group.

http://i.imgur.com/harfx9d.jpg