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Posted: 8/17/2010 5:35:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2010 5:35:10 AM EDT by Eric802]
I have never reloaded befor but I am going to start. I'm looking for a load to stock pile and factory 75g Tap is to expensive so I'm looking for the best man stopper load I can get. Rifle is a Noveske 14.5" Basic w/ Vortex. 1:7 twist. I want a heavy 75g or 77g hpbt. I think I will be reloading to 5.56 pressures. w/ Lake City once fired brass. I'm looking for suggestions on bullet, powder, grains of powder and primer.
Link Posted: 8/16/2010 8:31:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2010 8:32:49 PM EDT by Ironnewt]
I take it you have a reloading manual? Find a load appropriate for the bullet you are loading and start at the bottom of the scale. Load a few rounds (5 to 10) in increments of .1 grains of powder and take your rifle and to the range and see how each load groups. Personally I like to have a buddy with me to spot and help with the note keeping. Watch for signs of over pressure and you should be able to work up a good load. I'll post a load or two from my manual but you really need to lookat what's out there. If you are going with a specific bullet, go with the recommendations of the manufacturer
Link Posted: 8/16/2010 8:33:33 PM EDT
you will find tons of information here. Check the tacked threads!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=42
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 5:47:35 AM EDT
You will not find 5.56 loads in reloading manuals.

I do not give out 5.56 loads over the internet, though there are people who do.

Primers:
Remington 71/2
CCI 450
CCI #41

Powders:
TAC
H-4895
AA-2495
AA-2520
Varget
RL-15
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 6:56:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 7:42:29 AM EDT
If you're looking for a high quality bullet with good terminal effect for a decent price, try the Privi 75gr. OTM. They're available at Widners for something like $70/500. they're not quite as accurate as Sierra/Hornady/Nosler, etc, but they can't be beat for the price and you won't notice the difference unless you're shooting a dedicated target rig. I use these for my bulk "Warshot".
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 8:33:17 AM EDT
I've been able to achieve 5.56 velocities with 75gr Hdy bullets. although I have posted that load data on here before, I will not post it for you. My suggestion is start low and work up, looking for pressure signs (Once you know what they are), because you are new to reloading and wanna jump right up to the big leagues is DANGEROUS! I will give you this information. I used Ramshot TAC powder, I used Wolf small rifle mag primers and I used LC once fired brass. The load I developed is only safe in MY rifle. In fact the load shows little pressure signs in my primary M4....however, when working the load up in my Robinson XCR I got severe pressure signs a grain and a half before I reached the load that was safe in my M4. The velocity I got was an average of 2650 FPS out of a 14.5" chrome lined barrel.
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 12:36:44 PM EDT
You WILLl find reloading info for the 5.56 in the latest Horandy manual. Along with 7.62 and 30-06 mil spec.
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 12:47:05 PM EDT
Kaboooooooooom!!!!

Link Posted: 8/17/2010 1:03:09 PM EDT
Either Sierra 77 MK's or Nosler Custom Competition 77 BTHP's should work very well. Reloder 15 powder is a recommended powder and I've tried it up to 24.1 grains with both the 77 grain bullets, using RP 7 1/2's. I believe the Army used both of these in their MK262 loadings. http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/st223_120606/index.html
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 3:02:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rubline1:
You WILLl find reloading info for the 5.56 in the latest Horandy manual. Along with 7.62 and 30-06 mil spec.


The Hornady 5.56 data is not full power data, though it is more than recommended .223 data.
Link Posted: 8/17/2010 9:22:29 PM EDT
maby I'm getting this wrong but I'm pritty sure my Noveske can handle 5.56 pressures. I guess basically I want to load my own 75g tap ammo. if its cheaper. I was looking at reloading to a recipe not loading as hot as my rifle can handle. this is for SHTF not target. would i save money reloading my own 5.56 75g Hornaday Tap or just buy the 223 75g tap at $0.91 per round
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 12:12:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmaliteM15A2b:
maby I'm getting this wrong but I'm pritty sure my Noveske can handle 5.56 pressures. I guess basically I want to load my own 75g tap ammo. if its cheaper. I was looking at reloading to a recipe not loading as hot as my rifle can handle. this is for SHTF not target. would i save money reloading my own 5.56 75g Hornaday Tap or just buy the 223 75g tap at $0.91 per round


Factories crimp their 5.56 primers and use sealant to get consistent bulet pull. Handloaders do not do this.

It is not just about whether you have a 5.56 chamber or not. It is about the fact that you will trash your brass much more qucikly loading to 5.56 pressures and that if you eff up, you can say that you just followed the advice on this forum as we said it was GTG.

I can tell you that 25.0gr of H-335 is a great starting point for making your own M-193 loads.

I can tell you that 24.0gr of H-335 is a great starting point for making your own M-855 loads.

I can tell you that 22.0gr of H-4985 is a starting point for making your own heavy bullet 75gr/77gr loads.

In each case you can add more powder. How much more, I will not tell you.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 12:19:57 AM EDT
ok I get it. thanks
could you tell me how much I could save buy reloading what I want to reload? I just need to buy the bullets powder and primers. A friend of mine already said I could use is equipment.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 12:57:10 AM EDT
If you already have the cases, then you can reload match ammo at around $0.35 to $0.40 a round.

But you have to have the cases and the reloading gear. If you do not, then you MUST factor this cost into any equation to get your break even point.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 1:14:30 AM EDT
Just to give you an example:

Federal Gold Medal 77gr Match factory ammo rarely breaks 2,600 fps MV, when fired out of a 20" barrel.

MK262 (Mod 0 and Mod 1) averages between 2,800 fps and 2,870fps MV, with the same bullet, again fired out of a 20" barrel.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 5:31:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:16:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ironnewt:
I take it you have a reloading manual? Find a load appropriate for the bullet you are loading and start at the bottom of the scale. Load a few rounds (5 to 10) in increments of .1 grains of powder and take your rifle and to the range and see how each load groups. Personally I like to have a buddy with me to spot and help with the note keeping. Watch for signs of over pressure and you should be able to work up a good load. I'll post a load or two from my manual but you really need to lookat what's out there. If you are going with a specific bullet, go with the recommendations of the manufacturer

This is a good idea here.
Originally Posted By vedubin01:
you will find tons of information here. Check the tacked threads!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=42

This is also a very important thing to do, and there really IS a ton of information there.
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I've been able to achieve 5.56 velocities with 75gr Hdy bullets. although I have posted that load data on here before, I will not post it for you. My suggestion is start low and work up, looking for pressure signs (Once you know what they are), because you are new to reloading and wanna jump right up to the big leagues is DANGEROUS! I will give you this information. I used Ramshot TAC powder, I used Wolf small rifle mag primers and I used LC once fired brass. The load I developed is only safe in MY rifle. In fact the load shows little pressure signs in my primary M4....however, when working the load up in my Robinson XCR I got severe pressure signs a grain and a half before I reached the load that was safe in my M4. The velocity I got was an average of 2650 FPS out of a 14.5" chrome lined barrel.

This is too true, Safety is #1.
Pretty sure is a lot different than KNOWING you are sure. Just a casual glance at my 308 data (yes I know apples to oranges) but anyways just to give you an idea some of the data for the 308 shows pressures ranging from about 39,000 PSI to about 59,000 PSI. just in that little space there very close to your face. Imagine your compressor IF it could hold even half that pressure. Also Most of the reloaders will not give someone else any of our reloaded ammo because we know it is safe in OUR guns. Someone elses may not be able to handle our loads. and then the gun can blow up. Do everyone a favor and PLEASE research and read a lot so you understand at least the basics of reloading and the possible dangers before you actually reload. Remember it is not just your safety but others around you as well.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:22:21 AM EDT
I have some worked up loads that are pretty close to 5.56 pressures. I would not recommend them for SHTF, especially with once fired brass. Working up safe accurate loads is a much better option. I think once fired brass being pushed to its limited with pressure is not practical in survival mode. I'd rather have a load thats 100-200fps slower that shoots more accurately.

My reload findings are a lot of near max loads are the best for accuracy, but often accuracy starts to diminish as you getting closer to the max.


The last thing you would want is a load thats too hot getting the rim tore off and stuck in the chamber when SHTF.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:25:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By Rubline1:
You WILLl find reloading info for the 5.56 in the latest Horandy manual. Along with 7.62 and 30-06 mil spec.


The Hornady 5.56 data is not full power data, though it is more than recommended .223 data.



My Hornady manual is on my bench so I don't have it in front of me, but IIRC it is along the lines of .223 service rifle, and has more to do with heavier, longer bullets as opposed to higher pressures. The heaviest bullet also cannot be loaded to magazine length. This data is more more match shooting than SHTF.

Link Posted: 8/18/2010 9:46:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2010 6:25:39 PM EDT by Flash66]
Go out and buy factory ammo for SHTF.

If the S does HTF and you run out of factory ammo and you are still alive then do reloading. By then it won't make any difference of your bullet is going 2800 FPS or 3000 FPS. You will just be glad to have to something to shoot.

I store several thousands of rounds of factory ammo and would use that first in an unlikely SHTF event. I reload for the range not because it is that much cheaper but because it is fun to do so.

I always keep enough materials on hand to reload about 10K of .223. If I had to use that reloaded ammo for self defense it probably would be a little more accurate than most factory ammo but it would not be as powerful as the mil spec ammo.

For a 55 grain bullet the most I have been able to get out of reloads is about 3150 FPS without showing signs of pressure. That is about 100 FPS slower than mil spec loads.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 1:48:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flash66:
Go out any buy factory ammo for SHTF.

If the S does HTF and you run out of factory ammo and you are still alive then do reloading. By then it won't make any difference of your bullet is going 2800 FPS or 3000 FPS. You will just be glad to have to something to shoot.

I store several thousands of rounds of factory ammo and would use that first in an unlikely SHTF event. I reload for the range not because it is that much cheaper but because it is fun to do so.

I always keep enough materials on hand to reload about 10K of .223. If I had to use that reloaded ammo for self defense it probably would be a little more accurate than most factory ammo but it would not be as powerful as the mil spec ammo.

For a 55 grain bullets the most I have been able to get out of reloads is about 3150 FPS without showing signs of pressure. That is about 100 FPS slower than mil spec loads.


I like this idea

Stock up on milsurp and factory ammo. Dry seal them/water froof them

the chances of SHTF happening in your/our life time is slim to NONE! (jmo)

And stock pile/ "save" relaoding supplies
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 2:48:33 PM EDT
In Vietnam, 55gr FMJ XM193 ammo worked just fine ... and we were in a lot of SHTF situations.

Save yourself a lot of work and headaches and go buy a case, or two, or 10, of Lake City XM193 factory ammo. And to make you even happier, buy 100 rounds of 60gr Hornady TAP and about the same of 75gr Hornady TAP for the really big boogie men.

Then, concentrate your reloading efforts on assembling accurate ammo, that's where the real fun and savings come in.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:23:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fefu23:

the chances of SHTF happening in your/our life time is slim to NONE! (jmo)




I agree. I suspect the worse we have to worry about is a Katrina type thing where local law enforcement breaks down for a couple of weeks. However, we all do feel empowered with a good stash of ammo and reloading supplies. It is our gun nut fantasy and we do love it.

My goal is to have enough ammo on hand so that I can shoot the rest of my life and not have to buy any more ammo. I am probably 80% of the way there.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 6:42:42 PM EDT
i have 1500 rounds of LC M193. already that i shoot in my SP1.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 7:36:16 PM EDT
I've loaded a bunch of 75grn Prvi BTHPs with 24.0 grns of BL(C)-2 for my AR (16incher). Don't know what the velocity was, but it was the most accurate combo in my own rifle.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 8:06:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
I have some worked up loads that are pretty close to 5.56 pressures. I would not recommend them for SHTF, especially with once fired brass. Working up safe accurate loads is a much better option. I think once fired brass being pushed to its limited with pressure is not practical in survival mode. I'd rather have a load thats 100-200fps slower that shoots more accurately.

My reload findings are a lot of near max loads are the best for accuracy, but often accuracy starts to diminish as you getting closer to the max.


The last thing you would want is a load thats too hot getting the rim tore off and stuck in the chamber Then when SHTF.


Link Posted: 8/18/2010 8:13:24 PM EDT
im just looking to reload factory ammo cheeper then buying it. I thought maby reloading Hornaday 75g 5.56 Tap would be good or if someone had a better load id do that. im not looking to get every bit out of it.
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 8:20:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TeeRex:
I have some worked up loads that are pretty close to 5.56 pressures. I would not recommend them for SHTF, especially with once fired brass. Working up safe accurate loads is a much better option. I think once fired brass being pushed to its limited with pressure is not practical in survival mode. I'd rather have a load thats 100-200fps slower that shoots more accurately.

My reload findings are a lot of near max loads are the best for accuracy, but often accuracy starts to diminish as you getting closer to the max.


The last thing you would want is a load thats too hot getting the rim tore off and stuck in the chamber when SHTF.


This. When the balloon goes up, would you rather have accurate, reliable ammunition, or hot loads and a possible broken bolt?

Think about it. If you're actually loading for SHTF, you're already thinking about a situation wherein you will not have ready access to spare parts... Do you really want to be putting a beating on them when that might be all you have for the rest of your life?

I'll stockpile a good, moderately-loaded (but still on the arm side), accurate round, thanks. But that's just me.


Does that mean I'm getting old?
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 8:20:48 PM EDT
My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP(better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far) in new Hornady or once fired LC brass with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 24gr's of Varget, before I left the range last weekend testing my 6.8 loads I fired off 5 rounds of the .223 75's just to check them through the chronograph and real quick and got well under an inch group at 100 yards and the chrono data from my 16" BCM SS 1:8 twist barrel was:

1. 2539
2. 2534
3. 2534
4. 2559
5. 2578
AV. 2548
ES. 44
SD. 19

And this was from a barrel that was so hot you couldn't even touch it or barley could touch the DD Lite rail since I was having to do a bunch of testing in a short amount of time.

But for me this is pretty good velocity from a 16" barrel not to mention sub MOA at that and plenty safe in all .223/5.56 rifles.

I had some RE15 loads at 24gr's also to test but didnt have time, anyone know how much higher or lower the RE15 load would have been/
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 9:02:02 PM EDT
Some of my SHTF bullets are pulled 62gn M855 at 2800fps

I dont know what the 5.56 speed is.....
Link Posted: 8/18/2010 9:55:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flash66:
Originally Posted By fefu23:

the chances of SHTF happening in your/our life time is slim to NONE! (jmo)




I agree. I suspect the worse we have to worry about is a Katrina type thing where local law enforcement breaks down for a couple of weeks. However, we all do feel empowered with a good stash of ammo and reloading supplies. It is our gun nut fantasy and we do love it.

My goal is to have enough ammo on hand so that I can shoot the rest of my life and not have to buy any more ammo. I am probably 80% of the way there.


I hope and pray you all are right ... but with rioting in Greece and the global economy not going anywhere fast. It wouldn't take much to push it all over the edge. If unemployment reached 15%+ you could count on some civil disorder and things doing south quick. Add in a broke government that can't pay it's bills or pay to keep the peace - and we have a grim situation. With all the military and the police we have - you can bet they are not going to stand their ground if no one is putting food on the table for their families - if no one is paying them. Either way it's never too far off ... lets just continue to pray that the "trigger" is never tripped. What would happen if the government overstepped the Bill of Rights and did away with the 1st amendment or even quicker the 2nd amendment. Over the last 80 years they have stripped the BoR nearly bare. The 2nd Amendment is no longer freely practiced. Law abiding free Americans still have to register, fill out paperwork, and are denied firearms on a daily basis. All the while there BoR says "Shall NOT be infringed." Why should a law abiding criminal free American have to register, fill out paperwork or go through any type of background check if they have never done anything wrong? As long as good men do nothing ........ you all know the rest.

Sarg
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 5:42:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EWP:
[snip]

I had some RE15 loads at 24gr's also to test but didnt have time, anyone know how much higher or lower the RE15 load would have been/


With Sierra's 77gr MK, I've used 22.0gr to 22.5gr of Varget as a start load, but 23.0gr to 23.5gr of RE-15.

I would think, w/o using a chronograph or Hornady bullets, that 24.0 of RE-15 you would get near 2,600 fps MV......out of a 20" barrel.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 5:44:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Some of my SHTF bullets are pulled 62gn M855 at 2800fps

I dont know what the 5.56 speed is.....


Corrected M-855 Muzzle Velocity, out of a 20" barrel, is right around 3,100fps +/-.

What barrel length are you using.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 5:48:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EWP:
My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP(better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far) in new Hornady or once fired LC brass with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 24gr's of Varget, before I left the range last weekend testing my 6.8 loads I fired off 5 rounds of the .223 75's just to check them through the chronograph and real quick and got well under an inch group at 100 yards and the chrono data from my 16" BCM SS 1:8 twist barrel was:

Care to expand on that comment? I'm not going to disagree with you, but I would like to hear your reasons. My guns really like the 75gr hornady bullets and was having trouble deciding between buying the hornady 75 in bulk and being done with it or just getting some smk's to try.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 6:39:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By EWP:
My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP(better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far) in new Hornady or once fired LC brass with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 24gr's of Varget, before I left the range last weekend testing my 6.8 loads I fired off 5 rounds of the .223 75's just to check them through the chronograph and real quick and got well under an inch group at 100 yards and the chrono data from my 16" BCM SS 1:8 twist barrel was:

Care to expand on that comment? I'm not going to disagree with you, but I would like to hear your reasons. My guns really like the 75gr hornady bullets and was having trouble deciding between buying the hornady 75 in bulk and being done with it or just getting some smk's to try.


In Gel tests, SMK's have a longer neck length than the Nosler or Hornady. So, for a SD/HD situation either of these two bullets is to be preferred over the SMK.

When loaded to COAL, I like the Sierra over the Hornady. If I single load rounds, I like the Hornady.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 9:07:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Some of my SHTF bullets are pulled 62gn M855 at 2800fps

I dont know what the 5.56 speed is.....


Corrected M-855 Muzzle Velocity, out of a 20" barrel, is right around 3,100fps +/-.

What barrel length are you using.


14.5" barrel
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 9:31:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By EWP:
My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP(better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far) in new Hornady or once fired LC brass with Rem 7 1/2 primers and 24gr's of Varget, before I left the range last weekend testing my 6.8 loads I fired off 5 rounds of the .223 75's just to check them through the chronograph and real quick and got well under an inch group at 100 yards and the chrono data from my 16" BCM SS 1:8 twist barrel was:

Care to expand on that comment? I'm not going to disagree with you, but I would like to hear your reasons. My guns really like the 75gr hornady bullets and was having trouble deciding between buying the hornady 75 in bulk and being done with it or just getting some smk's to try.


In Gel tests, SMK's have a longer neck length than the Nosler or Hornady. So, for a SD/HD situation either of these two bullets is to be preferred over the SMK.

When loaded to COAL, I like the Sierra over the Hornady. If I single load rounds, I like the Hornady.


As the above poster said the Hornady 75's where superior over the SMK in all gel test, plain gel, through wall board into gel, through steel into gel, plus the Hornady frags better and has a much better wound cavaity than any of the other 77gr OTM's, the Hornady 6.8SPC 110gr OTM is the same way, it out preforms the SMK, NCC, Rem OTM, the Hornady OTM's for HD/SHTF are the ones to have and shoot better in my rifles as well so thats another big plus.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 10:53:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2010 12:05:52 PM EDT by Molon]


Originally Posted By EWP:

. . . the Hornady frags better and has a much better wound cavaity than any of the other 77gr OTM's . . .





Originally Posted By EWP:

My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP (better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far)



Both of the above statements are false.










Link Posted: 8/19/2010 11:09:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Some of my SHTF bullets are pulled 62gn M855 at 2800fps

I dont know what the 5.56 speed is.....


Corrected M-855 Muzzle Velocity, out of a 20" barrel, is right around 3,100fps +/-.

What barrel length are you using.


14.5" barrel


Despite what is says in the manual, I have never seen 2,970 fps out of a M-4 length barrel.

Roughly 2,850fps +/- 50fps is about all you will see in a barrel this short.

If your reloads are @ 2,800fps, then they are near 5.56 velocity.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 2:21:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By ScottyPotty:
Some of my SHTF bullets are pulled 62gn M855 at 2800fps

I dont know what the 5.56 speed is.....


Corrected M-855 Muzzle Velocity, out of a 20" barrel, is right around 3,100fps +/-.

What barrel length are you using.


14.5" barrel


Despite what is says in the manual, I have never seen 2,970 fps out of a M-4 length barrel.

Roughly 2,850fps +/- 50fps is about all you will see in a barrel this short.

If your reloads are @ 2,800fps, then they are near 5.56 velocity.


Good to know - thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 3:09:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2010 3:11:18 PM EDT by EWP]
Originally Posted By Molon:


Originally Posted By EWP:

. . . the Hornady frags better and has a much better wound cavaity than any of the other 77gr OTM's . . .





Originally Posted By EWP:

My accuracy load is 75gr Hornady BTHP (better for HD/SHTF than 77gr SMK or Nosler CC by far)



Both of the above statements are false.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/7o1m91jglj.jpg



http://www.box.net/shared/static/2dd2z0yyxn.jpg





That is a bull shit gel test comparing nothing, the Hornady opens faster, creates greater hydraulic shock, greater wound cavity, and retains more mass with just as much penetration, you don't see Sierra loading HD rounds with their 77gr SMK's do you and I'm sure the Military know the hornady round is superior as well but cost to much to change.

I know not apples to apples but look at how much futher it took the SMK to start to expand(3" vs 1" with the Hornady)


Gelatin Results
Bare Gelatin: 110 gr TAP 2540 fps 16" bbl. (side)
Total Pen. 16.75", Max. Cav. 6.5"
Depth to Max. Cav. 5.75", Entry .5"
Retained weight: 73 gr.



Sierra 115 Gr. SMK:Total Penetration: 14"

6.8 mm Hornady 110 gr OTM, vel=2613 fps from a 16” 1/11
BG: pen=17.7”, NL=3.5cm, Max TC diam=11.5cm@11.5cm from 3.5-20cm, RD=0.50”, RL=0.37", RW=80.0gr
Glass: pen=14.0", NL=0.5cm, Max TC diam=13cm@14cm from 0.5-24cm, RD=0.32", RL=0.51", RW=74.5gr

6.8 mm SSA 115 gr OTM (SMK), vel= 2520 fps from a 16" 1/11
BG: pen=15.0”, NL=5cm, MAX TC diam=11.5cm@15cm from 5-28cm, RD=0.49”, RL=0.26", RW=53.5gr
Glass: pen=12.8", NL=0.5cm, Max TC diam=9.5cm@11cm from 0.5-19cm; RD=0.48", RL=0.20", RW=32.7gr

While both the Hornady 110 gr OTM and SSA 115 gr SMK OTM offer acceptable terminal performance, the Hornady projectile is more consistent.


There is many more articles backing up that the 77gr SMK & CC are not even in the top runnings for a valid service round compared to the better rounds of today.
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 3:16:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2010 3:48:03 PM EDT by RedFalconBill]
Molon was showing you the Nosler bullet and you talk about the Sierra.

Molon was talking about the .223 and you show the 6.8.

What is CC?
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 3:38:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2010 5:19:21 PM EDT by Molon]
Originally posted by EWP:

That is a bull shit gel test comparing nothing, the Hornady opens faster, creates greater hydraulic shock, greater wound cavity, and retains more mass with just as much penetration, you don't see Sierra loading HD rounds with their 77gr SMK's do you and I'm sure the Military know the hornady round is superior as well but cost to much to change . . . 6.8mm bla, bla, bla . . .There is many more articles backing up that the 77gr SMK & CC are not even in the top runnings for a valid service round compared to the better rounds of today.


So you think that the works of Dr. G.K. Roberts and B&T Ammo Labs are “bull shit,” huh? That statement alone demonstrates your ignorance of the subject matter. As a further demonstration, your statement above is full of contradictory, misleading, and outright false information.

For starters, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP does not “open” at all. While it is an open-tip-match bullet, it does not function as a hollow point. It yaws and then fragments. Secondly, “hydraulic shock” is a myth perpetuated by dullards who get their information from gun-rag articles, bullet/ammunition advertisements and Internet Commandos. There is no such wounding mechanism as “hydraulic shock.” The myth was debunked years ago by terminal ballistic experts such as Dr. Martin Fackler. Thirdly, if the Hornady bullet “retains more mass,” then by definition it can’t fragment as much. If the Hornady bullet fragmented more, then it could not “retain more mass.” You can’t even keep your own story straight from post to post.

You also seem to have difficulties with reading comprehension, so let me help you with that. The bullet used in the pics of the gel tests that I posted is a NOSLER. I never said anything about the Sierra MatchKing. Also, the title of this thread is 5.56 reloading for SHTF.” Your post of 6.8mm SPC info is completely irrelevant to this discussion as is your babbling about "service rounds."
Link Posted: 8/19/2010 7:05:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
If you're looking for a high quality bullet with good terminal effect for a decent price, try the Privi 75gr. OTM. They're available at Widners for something like $70/500. they're not quite as accurate as Sierra/Hornady/Nosler, etc, but they can't be beat for the price and you won't notice the difference unless you're shooting a dedicated target rig. I use these for my bulk "Warshot".


I'd say for your purpose, this man is right. I have shot a bunch of these, they shoot good enough.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 11:47:31 PM EDT
well I quess ill use my brass for practice ammo. I found out Officers can buy 5.56 tap at a decent price. I wont have to worry about blowing my face off.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 8:54:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glorifiedG:
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
If you're looking for a high quality bullet with good terminal effect for a decent price, try the Privi 75gr. OTM. They're available at Widners for something like $70/500. they're not quite as accurate as Sierra/Hornady/Nosler, etc, but they can't be beat for the price and you won't notice the difference unless you're shooting a dedicated target rig. I use these for my bulk "Warshot".


I'd say for your purpose, this man is right. I have shot a bunch of these, they shoot good enough.

But do they fragment or open up as good as the Sierra/Hornady/Nosler?

These threads give me a headache.

I'm just going to load up what I can afford to load up a lot of, that go as fast as I can make them go and still shoot well while using as little powder as possible and staying under any type of pressure signs.

For me, that would be the prvi 69 and 75 from wideners or 75 hornady from midsouth ($82/600). I'm sure the nosler and smk's are great but should SHTF, I doubt I will have any trouble doing what I might have to do with the loads I make.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 10:14:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2010 10:20:35 AM EDT by magnum_99]
For SHTF, you can't do much better than 55 grain FMJ bullets over 25 grains of H335. 2.5" OAL, and I like the Lee FCD with a LIGHT crimp on the cannelure.

The 55 gr. bullets can be had in bulk and are relatively inexpensive (~$40/1000). Terminal performance is more than adequate out to 200 yards or so (depending on length of barrel) and is accurate as they need to be. H335 meters very well and is a snap to use in a progressive machine...and having lots of ammo is what you want for SHTF, right?

Link Posted: 8/31/2010 11:33:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2010 7:49:16 PM EDT by makintrax73]
For those asking about RE-15 load velocity,

I ran some 75 Hndys with 24.5 grns RE-15 over a chrono. 16" stainless 1:8 barrel. Avg velocity was right around 2650, which I believe falls in between Hndy TAP .223 and 5.56 velocity levels.

Link Posted: 8/31/2010 12:59:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
For SHTF, you can't do much better than 55 grain FMJ bullets over 25 grains of H335. 2.5" OAL, and I like the Lee FCD with a LIGHT crimp on the cannelure.

The 55 gr. bullets can be had in bulk and are relatively inexpensive (~$40/1000). Terminal performance is more than adequate out to 200 yards or so (depending on length of barrel) and is accurate as they need to be. H335 meters very well and is a snap to use in a progressive machine...and having lots of ammo is what you want for SHTF, right?



where are you finding 55 grainers for $40 per thousand?
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 1:10:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DirtyDrew:
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
For SHTF, you can't do much better than 55 grain FMJ bullets over 25 grains of H335. 2.5" OAL, and I like the Lee FCD with a LIGHT crimp on the cannelure.

The 55 gr. bullets can be had in bulk and are relatively inexpensive (~$40/1000). Terminal performance is more than adequate out to 200 yards or so (depending on length of barrel) and is accurate as they need to be. H335 meters very well and is a snap to use in a progressive machine...and having lots of ammo is what you want for SHTF, right?



where are you finding 55 grainers for $40 per thousand?


Oops, I meant per 500.
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