So, just curious if anyone here carried or has used a “punch knife”.  I’m specifically talking about knives like the KaBar TDI and Al Salvatti’s designed “The Colonel”.  Salvatti’s demonstrations are pretty solid.  I’ve carried the small TDI in the past, but will do a little training with Salvatti’s design.  As a right-handed dominant fighter, I’m actually considering on carrying this for weak-hand use.  I’m carrying an M9 here in theater, but my occupation puts me in tighter quarters and small rooms.  My thought process is that if your strongarm gets pinned, I’ll have a couple weak-hand options to create enough distance to get my handgun deployed.  I’ve trained with and carry the Benchmade SOCP dagger on my IOTV (weakside access), but I’m really liking the option of having a “punch” knife that is quickly accessible with my left hand so that if forced into hand-to-hand, I just want something to help “punch” my way to enough separation that I can draw my M9.

I’m no knife-fighter, but I’ve trained enough to know how to quickly deploy and a few vital areas to target; for me the goal is creating separation.  I’ll be armed 99% of the time, but when in a vehicle, tight stairwell, or small room, your standard draw techniques can get cramped.  Thoughts?



I've you're interested in Savatti's philosophy for this design, he has some pretty sound videos to demonstrate:

https://colonelblades.com/videos/

ROCK6

I've been looking into one of these as well. I am no expert, but like you, I like the concept. I have a cheap Gerber Push Dagger that I carry weak side for the same reason you mentioned. To create space if need be. I've also been looking at the Esee Izula Tertiary. It would be nice if I had a shop around town that would carry these to get a good hands on experience with do decide which one I like.

Esee


Current Carry

I like the kabar tdi as a backup to a gun. In a grab situation a couple of poked and slashes can get their attention off the gun which you can draw.

I think a fixed blade of some kind is light years beyond a folder, so go with what you prefer.

I love folders, and as fast as my Emersons are to deploying from my pocket, try getting one out while loaded down with gear and crammed in the backseat of a vehicle.  I like the simple economy of motion of basic jabbing; it allows you to keep your arms in tight and it only takes 4-6 inches to get a powerful punch.  I watched Savatti's video comparing his blade design to a push dagger design.  In slow motion, I can agree with the physics, but I don't buy that there is a significant difference.  I did some less-lethal training using a handgun (either as a less-than lethal impact weapon or out of ammo), and the mechanics are very similar with his design (same for the TDI and even Benchmade makes a similar design now).  Well, I got suckered out of $150, so I'll at least give it a go...it will likely take a month to get out here though

ROCK6

I have a few similar to that, but they all pale compared to my SOCP. I like it with a rubber band around the middle of the sheath (to keep it in the pocket), and clipped to a pocket like a pocket knife. Not really bigger than a folding knife, looks like one, but very fast to draw and use. 

Most guys I know use the KBAR or the Sheriff of Baghdad punch.....just an observation.  I have the KBAR

I'm more intrigued by the "pistol shaped" punch knives as the handing is similar, but your typical dagger punch knives are the same in practice.  I know some have mentioned trying a kerambit as well, but I've found that as destructive as they can be, the potential is really when used with martial arts.  Additionally, many of the moves involving sweeping motions which is much of my problem with tight quarters.  Again, kit up in your IOTV and sit in a very crowded SUV backseat and see how much maneuver room you have, or conversely, get into a small office with five or six guys and maneuver room becomes a premium, same as with a tight stairwell.  I was really looking for something I could access easily and close to my body (from the front) and keeping any defensive/offensive moves in tight where there is minimal room to maneuver.  Both boxing and many martial arts techniques provide a foundation of striking and protection that can be close to the body; adding a blade to that equation can be far more effective.  Again, these blades are really backups to your primary sidearm (or rifle) and my only purpose is if my strong arm is pinned or incapacitated, or in such tight quarters that I can't draw immediately.  The goal is to just be able to engage and create separation.



ROCK6

I bought the TDI and an aftermarket sheath, I'm just not feeling it. I've adjusted the sheath half a dozen times, took it off, put a spyderco g-clip on it, hated it more. Where I actually want to put it where I carry my spare mags, then it's a bitch to reach with my right hand, but my intention is that it's a left hand weapon.

Seriously thinking about the SOCP in a pocket carry, looks small, just don't know that I want to give up that room in that pocket. I already tote around a pocket pistol and folder in the right pocket.

I picked up a SOG karambit last weekend, it's completely useless to me. I won't even attempt to hook it on a belt.

I bought a pair of the Cold Steel Safekeepers (Tom Berenger had one in Platoon). Cool and they would make a mess out of someone easy, only issue I had was how to carry them. I tried drawing one out that was sheathed on my belt and I put a 3" slice in my shirt nearly cutting myself. I had practiced the motion slowly several times and thought I had it down. Can't fault the knife for that though.

Kid I grew up with did 3 years in prison for attempted murder. He got in some type of bar fight, got surrounded by 4 or 5 guys and ended up puncturing all of them with a punch knife he carried. I talked to his brother about it and he surmised that the guys must have thought they were getting punched, not punctured, as none of them broke it off until they started dropping and frothing blood.  Just something to think about.

I'm in a location where they first attempt a suicide attack or some form of IED.  Worst case (other than immediate death) is capture. Ironically, contractors don't get covered by the SOFA, so there is some risk even defending yourself in a hostile combat zone...of course, if I'm using a blade, it just because I can't access my firearm.

ROCK6

My point was about the guys not realizing they'd been stabbed. Just wanted to point that out. I'm also no knife fighting expert but have had the basics taught to me and your adversary seeing his own blood is a good thing.  

Also, while I rarely carried a fighting knife on active duty, I had a team mate that swore by one. He carried about a 5" fixed blade on his kit in the chest area. He could transition from his rifle to that knife in well under a second. We did a bunch of drills with a red-man knife, up close and personal where his rifle got grabbed, and he definitely could get that knife into play and to work quickly.  

Good luck with the job. Not being covered by SOFA in a shit hole sucks.

Edit: Just watched that vid. Interesting design that allows strong slashes as well as effective stabs.

I agree, and I had to decide between the more visual slashes of a kerambit type weapon with a more compact-thrust, phone-booth, "punching" weapon.  Seeing a bunch of blood is a psychological impact regardless.

Also,I typically view knives as utilitarian first, but recognizing my environment, a blade is a suitable backup or precursor to your firearm(s).  Proximity is often the key.  Some of my engagements (advising, not kinetic), are in often, close, cramped quarters.  For my needs I need something that I can access quickly and strike with minimal movement and space; much like drawing your handgun and being prepared to fire from the hip before extending out.  I see the simplicity of a punch knife (including push daggers) for phone-booth engagements using gross motor skills and basic thrusting/punching motions.  There are numerous opinions regarding knife use and techniques and they are good debate topics, but if forced fist to fist, a blade makes a significant and potentially lethal advantage.

I was a little surprised not being covered under the SOFA.  All our training and instruction is to basically defend self and break contact.

ROCK6

I'll throw out a recommendation for the Brous Blades Silent Soldier. It comes in multiple blade styles, I've got the drop point version. No, it isn't a true punch knife or dagger but it could fit that role. Small, light, and feels very natural in my hand unlike a lot of other similar sized knives. I like it a lot. 

ETA: Because pics make knife threads better. Not my knife but that's the version I have. 

Do you carry a grenade on your belt? That was always my “not getting taken alive” insurance. I would modify a single molle grenade pouch for belt carry. M9, 2 spare mags, an M67 frag and my spyderco endures got me through many meetings. I’m going with the Gerber ghoststrike, benchmade and Glock field knife.

Grenades are not an option or part of the inventory unfortunately.  Hell, it takes several months just to get your weapons' permits to carry as a contractor which is absurd.  It's a different environment with some restrictions and constraints which must be taken into consideration.  I deal with issues involving anti/counter corruption within the ANA, so there is some inherent danger as most of the leadership is inherently corrupt to some degree which leads to a certain level of risk.  Options are always a good think, a grenade would be nice, but just not an available.

ROCK6

I am looking for something to carry all g with my conceal carry gun. I am not in the same boat but looking for the same reason. Close quarters.

The Ka-Bar TDI has my interest but so doesn't punch/push daggers. I like the idea of putting to punch/push daggers on my belt. I can go strong or weak side. The TDI is also one I could do the same with but I'm thinking if space.

Is the TDI a better option? Will it cause more damage and get the attackers attention quicker?

I'm thinking the case above in the bar the guys may have been drunk and not felt it. Maybe more was at play. Like drugs in their system causing them to not feel.

I'm no combat trained so my mindset is not like yours. I don't have the experience.

Great thread.

There will always be opinions on the various options, but what I've found most important (other than a little repetitive training), is finding something that has a decent sheath (or you get a custom), is sized to fit discreetly (if necessary) and is both natural and easy to access quickly.  I'm not averse to either punch knives or push daggers, but I do require a sheath and mounting location that won't interfere with movement or access to other essentials.  I keep going back to a sheath system that places the blade right near (or even over) my belt buckle.  With a flat enough profile, they will even conceal under an untucked shirt.  Use of these blades isn't rocket science and they should be intended to access quickly and with little room so you can employ them to get make enough distance to break contact or access a more lethal means.  I've received "the Colonel" and love the handling and sheath system, but it's a larger punch blade; it works great on my battle belt, but I don't wear that daily, just when I travel outside the camp.  While the handle is comfortable and gives you a solid grip for punching, it's a little long and the angular glass-braking pommel will dig into your crotch if the sheath isn't situation right (not very comfortable on a 45 minute helo ride!).  

I'm going to try out one of Cold Steel's smaller push daggers, but I'm really like the Benchmade Azeria, which his very similar in size to the smaller TDI.  I still like the smaller TDI, I just wanted something different, but it's still a solid choice.

ROCK6

ROCK6 thanks for the info and real world information. I have been looking at punch/push daggers. I have a friend who is a blade smith. He said to show him ones I like and he would design something and do a sheath. He could even do a TDI type for me.

I was thinking of getting a Ka-Ba TDI and letting him make me a punch know. I would wear the TDI on my weak side and punch/push daggers note towards my back area.

I conceal carry and times I can't carry my G19 and I can carry a pocket gun. My thought is if I can't get it deployed in time maybe the knife would be the best option. Something close in and can cause a lot of damage.

If I get something designed I will post pics. I want something that isn't just a small hole maker but a big one. Tears going in and rips coming out.

I'm a cop, but I have the same feelings you do about being in a close in fight where your strong arm is trapped.

YouTube - Cop in a 1 on 1 that turns into a 4 on 1

Having someone on top of you is bad, having several is worse.

Benchmade Punch Knife


I carry this punch knife behind some gear on my belt where it isn't very visible, but I can reach it with my weak hand. The sheath has eyelets, loops and a hefty steel c clip on the back. I also carry a S&W 442 on my ankle, a Glock 23 on my vest under my shirt and a TOPS SWAT Spike taped to my vest. I also keep my old OKC-3S in the trunk to snap onto my patrol rifle...but I don't really see that ever happening .

Good luck out there. Keep your head on a swivel.

Lol

I carry my duty Glock 22 with TLR1 back up Glock 27 with TLR6, 4 magazines and a Benchmade SOCP and sometimes I feel like I’m too paranoid but you my friend are my new hero.

I just ordered 2 Schrade push knives. See how they feel.

Agreed.  Schroedum is my favorite cop ever.

In my experience, people that have been stabbed rarely realize they have been stabbed.

What about a Hide Away Knife? https://www.fenixoutfitters.com/knives-and-tools/hideaway/

They were in the mix, and I contact them but never received a response.  I know the handles should measure your (two?) fingers, which I did and still looking for a measurement that fits.  I've heard great things about HAKs and love their carry options/locations which fit my needs...

ROCK6

The TDI.

Because its so simple. Even your dumb Cop can use it effectively.

This is true. I have only been witness to a stabbing one time outside of my corrections experience. In my younger days,  I was at a keg party where my friend was working the door collecting dollars. Some lovely uninvited young gentleman showed up who did not wish to pay and they were barred access. Punches were exchanged and the uninvited boys left.
It was then my friend realized he had been stabbed multiple times and we had to call an ambulance.

He later said that he wondered why the one guy kept hammer punching him downward in the shoulder area, that it did not make sense, since it did nothing as my friend delivered punishment to the fuckhead's face, but he was getting stabbed and never knew it during the scrap.

He was stone sober.

I would suspect it would rely more on the location and depth.  You're not going to severe an artery or puncture a vital organ with your fist.  Many of the same strike areas you would hit with your hand would be far more devastating if you had a blade doing the damage; and while adrenalin may not slow your opponent with either fist blows/strikes or slashes/stabs, blood loss will affect them far faster.  Even if you just hit some smaller arteries and you couldn't break contact, loss of blood quickly reduces one's ability to fight.  I think there is the blood-sight psychological impact (which doesn't affect everyone), and then simply time, where blood loss will take the fight out of someone.  If you can't break contact after slashing and stabbing, but you can obtain a compliance mount or hold, you can simply wait until blood loss makes the threat less threatening.  I guess if I was in a phone-booth fight, I would rather have a blade than just my hands...all things being equal.

ROCK6

Absolutely, when I travel I pack a Kabar TDI. Very intuitive. Also check out the Esee Tertiary

I have been carrying a Ka-Bar TDI for a couple of weeks. Great knife. Tucks away on my belt and I don't know it's even there. I wondered how the stick sheath would be and it's great actually. Great little knife.

I had one years ago.  Ended up selling it and keeping a La Griffe.

I like the TDI but it doesn't feel as "secure" as I'd like for some reason, I probably need to work on the grip some.

I would love to handle a Tertiary!!