versus


or other?

I found the Ken Onion version referenced a couple times in other threads here.  Curious if it is worth/what makes it worth almost twice as much as the regular one.  

Where I am at:

I have a quick sharpener for light duty stuff, but would be nice to be able to get a better longer lasting edge. Also, I recognize I am not the most steady handed or patient when trying to use stones so I thought maybe one of these belt systems might do the trick.  Be nice to be able to do larger blades like the lawnmower too.

While I have been around knives and used them for many many years, complete noob at doing good sharpening.  Heard these are more or less fool proof.  

Any comments or advice appreciated.  If this topic has been beaten to death already in another thread, please redirect me, I must have missed it.

Ken Onion is worth it vs. the standard to me
Wider belts
quick adjust blade angle gauge. No allen wrench needed

That's funny, the Amazon link on Arfcom shows the Ken Onion model price as $39.95 instead of $127.30.  If it was $39.95, I wouldn't even be asking.

Thanks Euge, good to know about the quick adjust, that would be nice.

Ken onion is the only way to go.

Fuck that was a lot of work...

*shrug* I went with the normal one, I love it.

I was looking for personal insight from people actively using them, in this forum; knife enthusiasts.  Any jackass can make a youtube video.

Thanks for the sarcastic commentary.

ETA: FWIW, it is a well done, insightful video.

Your welcome, I have no experience with the Ken Onion version but the regular one is pretty sweet, no complaints.

are these things actually better than just using a diamond hone or stone?

I have the Ken Onion version.

My only complaint is the guides rub a horizontal line on each side of the knife blade from abrasive dust off the belts.

It's ok for utility knives but if you have anything with nice finish you'll want to put masking tape on the blade.

I like the regular one just fine, biggest knife I've  sharpened is 9 inches.

The replacement belts for the Ken Onion model are also more expensive.

Not to me.

I'm a sharpening nut as well as a gun nut. I have a 2x72 Burr King belt grinder, a Tormek low speed water cooled grinder, paper wheels, various grinders, buffers, oil stones, water stones, diamond stones, 3M abrasives, multiple strops with a variety of compunds, a Lansky, an Edge Pro, a Wicked Edge, steels and ceramic rods...you name it.

What I actually use most of the time is a 250 grit diamond stone for knives that are super dull, or that I am resetting the bevel on, followed by a 1,000 grit King water stone (or an 800 grit Chosera) followed by a 6,000 grit water stone, followed by a cheap strop loaded with green compound.

Sounds like a lot, but after the first sharpening you never really need to use the 250 grit again. Some knives just get the 1,000 grit stone (my tomato knife seems to cut better with a toothy edge). The 6,000 grit and strop are just for fun, really. Takes 90 seconds to get a kitchen knife or pocket knife shaving sharp.

There is nothing hard about sharpening freehand. I taught my nephews and nieces in about an hour, and they were turning out sharp knives.

One thing to watch for with powered sharpeners is that they can remove metal quickly, especially in front of a bolster, then you have a recurve that won't sit flat on a cutting board, which becomes annoying with chopping, as the item will not be cut all the way through.

Like everything, focus, attention to detail and careful observation on the part of the operator is way more important than the actual tool. 

I have the regular, and only use it for utility kitchen knives. It is very easy to mess up a knife. For my better kitchen and pocket knives, I use a Lansky.

Thanks for the specific thoughts.

These stones you use, do you mean traditional flat stones?  My issue there is getting the angle consistently right and patience.  I haven't done that since Boy Scouts how many years ago.  I don't think I ever got a good edge in 90 seconds using traditional stones, and my blades never looked good as I recall.  I have so many knives now I just do a quick sharpen or grab a different one to carry.  The quick sharpen doesn't last as long as a good job would I am sure. So I have a fair bit of catch up work to do.

I know there are systems to help get a more consistent angle using stones but for the same money I thought the belt systems might be easier to use, especially for some of the heavier work.  And I had seen a number of people comment in other threads that they have had good results with the belt systems. I like the idea of having guides to try to keep me consistent on the angle.  Your point on running the risk of putting a recurve edge on the blades is well taken.  Done that with a bench grinder before.

I am not necessarily set on the belt systems, just looking for the best combination of consistent quality edge and time to do it.

I have heard positive things about Lansky.  The other one that caught my eye in my research was the KME Knife Sharpening System, just because it seemed like a better set up to get a more consistent angle.

At this point I need to do every one in the house.

Thanks.

If you were looking for a single, affordable stone I'd get the King KDS 1,000/6,000 combination stone, or a Norton 1,000/4,000 combination stone. If money isn't a big deal larger diamond plates in 250, 600 and 1,200 grit are nice...they sharpen all the super steels and stay flat, but they aren't necessary for sharpening 99% of knives out in the wild. If money is really tight, a Norton Crystalon combination stone works well.

I think people put too much worry into maintaining a perfect angle on their stones. They fret about it, get keyed up and stressed out about it. Just hold it reasonably steady and sharpen away...yes you will end up with some convexity...who cares if the knife is sharp? Yes one side might end up at 18 degrees while the other side is 15 degrees...who cares if the knife is sharp? If you leave a tiny microchip in the blade that snags on paper you are cutting...who cares as long as it is cutting what you need to cut well? The chip will be gone next time you sharpen.

The powered sharpeners are very nice and easy to use as well, but they are less forgiving of bad technique with regard to removing metal metal very quickly, overheating the edge, rounding the tip, introducing recurve.

Whatever you get, don't worry about what other people think. Just be attentive to the process and you'll get good results.

And that is what I would have said in the past.  If that is what I am doing, I can get a sharp edge, but it won't look perfect.

What prompts this though is that I picked up a multi tool some time back on the EE, and the guy sharpened it before sending it out.  It looks like he used a belt system to sharpen it.  I've reached out to him but haven't heard back.  Blade looks perfect, clean and even and it has stayed razor sharp.  Seemingly longer than the ones I have just done a quick job on. So do I need to get a sharpening system that would allow me to match that

Hence the request for information.

And thanks for the stone recs.  I definitely don't have a set with all of the different grits, so at the very least I should probably pick up a few.

Since we're discussing sharpening...watch YouTube videos with a critical eye.

Paul Sellers is a woodworker, but his sharpening videos (chisels, planes, etc.) are gold. He has worked with hand tools daily for 50 years. There is nothing precious or angsty about his method. Quick, no nonsense, and works very well. All about quick and good and getting back to work.

Murray Carter, great bladesmith, sharpens all kinds of stuff then shaves with it, with two stones and stropping on newspaper. His method isn't as speed focused...but very worthwhile.

Bob Kramer, another great bladesmith, has some good sharpening videos. The one with Anthony Bourdain shows him sharpening a knife very quickly in his shop.

Then you have tons and tons of videos of people putting mirror edges on their knives, getting upset that the Wicked Edge clamp moves the apex when thicker knives are placed in the clamp, since the one jaw is fixed. Or folks complaining that the stones on their Edge Pro are different thicknesses, so the angle changes minutely (use the stop collar trick). Or you have Ricky Tran, who seems like a nice guy, but then talks forever and takes 10-20 times longer than necessary to sharpen a knife in an overly precious way. Or folks that think you must count strokes when you sharpen.

You'll see folks doing grit progressions that are totally bonkers on 6 different stones. Folks whittling hairs, tree-topping hairs, push cutting toilet paper...fun BS that has nothing to do with putting a quick, razor sharp edge on your knives.

Just be a bit skeptical when you watch these videos, then go try it yourself.

Thank you for the recs.

OK, watching the videos on the sharpening, good refreshers, but nothing really new.  Drove home the point though of whatever you are using to sharpen, have good technique.

But using a stone is still the long road to sharpening seemingly.

Discovered a shop locally (finally) that has an awesome selection of knives and all the different sharpeners.  Talked to their knife purchaser for quite some time.

He said that most of the time for quick sharpening they will use the Lansky system they had fastened to their bench.  If they needed to do heavier work on the blades, they would use the Work Sharp.  Some of their guys would sit down for 3 hours working their knives with the stones (exaggeration perhaps) but for him, he thought the Work Sharp or Ken Onion edition were the way to go because they were so much faster.  He acknowledged there is a definite skill to it and if you aren't careful you can remove a lot of material very quickly.  Due to the time saving aspect, he still thought it was better than stones and commented how he feels he is still getting as good of an edge as factory with the Work Sharp system. It sounded like they still use the Work Sharp they have had for a long time, but he was interested in the Ken Onion edition for the attachments to work with a variety of blades.  To a large extent his comments lined up with those made in the youtube video shared by OldArmy, except in the video the guy recommends the regular model as a the safe option for noobs and the guy at the shop was recommending the Ken Onion edition for the variable speed, more powerful motor and attachment options, thinking either way you need to be paying attention.

Still undecided, but lots of good input.

I got a Spyderco Sharpmaker a few days ago, got the ultra fine rods with it.

Thing is fool proof.  I took my ZT 0350 from fairly dull to shaving in 20 minutes including reading the directions.

I was able to take my Para 3 in s110v that was slightly worn back to better than factory sharp as well.

I've never in my life been able to sharpen knives.  The sharpmaker is idiot proof.

I should watch a vid on that.  Just looking at it, it is not clear to me how it would work.

Thanks for the rec, will check it out.

The operator holds the blade at a consistent angle perpendicular to the surface the sharpmaker is placed on. The base of the sharpmaker has 2 different pre cut angle slots that the stones go into. By keeping the knife perfectly straight up and down and letting the guide holes hold the ceramic rods at a known, predictable angle you get consistent results. It basically makes it easy to hold the knife at a consistent angle to the sharpening rods (the whole key to sharpening on any system).

The downside is you only get a choice of 2 angles for your blades. The sharpmaker is great, but more for knives that you want to maintain the current geometry of. It can re-profile blades, but wihtout separate expensive diamond rods takes for ever. The rods included with the base system just aren't meant for that.

I've had a Spyderco sharpmaker for years.
The one I have only has two holes for the triangle rods. So only one set angle.

It came with two gray coarse rods and two white fine rods and the brass guard rods. It works great for maintaining an edge profile and you can repair some shallow nicks with the coarse rods. If you want to re-profile a blade or revive an abused blade it will take a long time.

It is as consistent as you are.

Saw an interesting kitchen knife set the other day where the knife block had in-slot sharpeners for each knife.  

Got me thinking, if I am looking at a couple different types of sharpeners here, maybe I should be looking at a counter top type sharpener to leave out (i.e. Work Sharp Combo Knife Sharpener or Chef;s Choice etc.) for kitchen sharpening and stones or a kit like the Sharpmaker for fine tuning.  Still might need something like the Work Sharp for bigger blades like mower, axes etc.

Also noticed Cabela's has a bunch of the sharpeners out for testing.  Should take a dull blade in just to try out the various models.

Not trying to kick a dead horse, but someone asked me in another thread about the regular v KOE Work Sharp, for use on hunting/fishing knives, nicer ones, not kitchen knives.  I just had them both listed as gift ideas, certainly not holding myself out as an authority.  But it give me pause to pull together and reflect on the information collected so far from my various sources and write out a response.

I still won't pretend to have answers, but I thought I would copy it here for posterity, so anyone in the future going through the same process I am may get some insight, for whatever it may or may not be worth, as they make the decision for themselves.

____

Wow.  dropdbombnow drops the $87M question. Wall of text coming...

The short answer is, neither may be "worth" it for your specific needs.  You may be better served with something like a Spyderco Sharpmaker.

"Worth" is relative, so I cannot tell you whether it is worth it to you.  Also, everyone has different needs and ability levels.

I am not trying to be snarky or putting the question off, it is just a complicated question, one which I have been considering at length myself recently and discussing in the Armory forum, Star_Scream's knife pron thread and reviewing on Bladeforums.  I am by no means an expert on this subject, quite the opposite.  Some of you may already know what I will share, but I will lay out the information I have collected and what I have heard from others, hopefully it helps people decide for themselves.

First off, a comparison between the two models of the Work Sharp (WS) and Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition (KOE).  This video does a good job summarizing the pros and cons between them.  The main differences being that the KOE has wider belts, variable motor speed, a more powerful motor and quick adjust sharpening guide angles.  You can also get attachments for the KOE that are not available for the WS.

At the end of the video Chris at Preparedmind101 determines that for the average noob, the WS is the better pick.  He says in later videos that the KOE with the blade grind attachment is his favorite, but acknowledges it is not for everyone.  He says the Work Sharp Combo sharpener may be the best option for the average joe. Not for high end stuff.  Video here.

Star_Scream recently endorsed the KOE (but his preference is still for stones, which I address generally below).  He also said he would not use it for anything but cheap o knives and kitchen knives. His thoughts:

The replacement belts for the KOE cost a bit more, but they are wider and should in theory last longer. Perhaps a wash.

If you are near a Cabelas, you can play with the various models and if you bring your knife (knives) with you, they will sharpen them on the spot.  If you trust them.  Not sure I would.

The key consideration with either the WS or KOE, and perhaps deal breaker for some, is they can remove a lot of material very quickly and you may end up with all of your knives being recurve profiles or missing tips.  Some have also commented that you should use masking tape on the face of your knife, otherwise grit can collect on the guides of the WS and KOE and scratch the face as you draw the blade through.

In the end, the people with the WS say it works great, but I have heard more from people saying given the choice, go with the KOE.

However, the general consensus among the knife crowd still appears to be a preference for stones. For many, this means using traditional style bench stones, though with modern harder steels, diamond stones are a necessity.  Arkansas stones will not keep up.

Star_Scream says he uses DMT diamond stones.

Skunkeye is a proponent of using stones as well.  His suggestion:

Skunkeye points out that once you have a good edge using stones, occasional quick touch ups should be all that is needed.

For some, traditional stones are still too involved and expensive for someone that just needs quick and easy. There is also the issue that your angles will not be as consistent on each pass with a traditional bench stone.  Skunkeye says people worry too much about this.

For many, the answer to getting more consistent angles is to use something like a Spyderco Sharpmaker.  From all those I have talked to, the Spyderco Sharpmaker is a great product that is pretty much fool proof. Here is a video on the Sharpmaker. However, as Willz has pointed out, it is still only as consistent as you are. He also said if you want to reprofile or recondition an abused blade, the Sharpmaker will take a long time. I have yet to hear any negative feedback on the Sharpmaker.

For myself, if there is a product that offers more consistent angles to keep that bevel looking good, uniform and clean, I am all about that.  The next level is guided sharpening systems that control the angle of the sharpening stones.  There is a variety out there on the market.  The ones I have heard the most about are the Wicked Edge, the KME, and the Edge Pro. For the guided systems, I have heard the most hype about the Wicked Edge, but also very positive things about the KME and Edge Pro. Lansky makes a cheaper one, but there is more float in the guide system, leading me to think a Sharpmaker would be better than the Lansky "guided" system.

So personal preference is a WS or KOE for big and cheap stuff or reprofiling a knife edge and a guided system to get a good clean edge on nice knives.

Another consideration, IIRC, most of the systems, powered or not, have a blade length limitation of around 8-9 inches.  Not an issue for most.

Anything more than a Lansky quick sharpener or the top edge of your truck window glass will require some investment of money and time. I won't even go into stropping and polishing compounds etc.  Also, perhaps conndcj said it best:

So one may also consider using a local sharpening service.  I don't mean going to Ace Hardware (unless all you have is junker knives), but seek out a professional service where that is all they do.  Around here there are a couple that service restaurants and consumers.  On the newer super steels an edge should last a long time unless you are beating on it so cost shouldn't be prohibitive.  There are also knife makers/ sharpening people here on Arfcom and Bladeforums that you may be able to send your knives to.

There it is, FWIW.

ETA: Just talked to a couple knife fiends (brothers) who insist the KOE is the only way to go for a Work Sharp. They also said they still use diamond stones on all of their nice knives. Work sharp just for heavy removal.

I bought a couple of those Work Sharp Field sharpeners. Comes with coarse and fine grit diamond stones, ceramic rod, and mini strop. The stones and rod have 20 guides but I always eyeball the ege. I bought a basic electric Work Sharp once but honestly unless the knife was truly fucked it was overkill. Once I have a knife sharp it generally stays that way. I made a few strops and can't resist using them anytime I've used a knife.

I've been kicking around the KO Work Sharp for a while now mainly to get down on some cheap kitchen knives that have rolled edges.

Otherwise I'm a neanderthal and use a United Cutlery german made butcher steel that gets most of my stuff back to shaving sharp in a minute or so.

Have an old book called The Razors Edge. Great read. Been using his system ever sense.

I was talking to the knife fiend brothers again today and they were saying too, once you have a good edge on a quality blade, only need to do a quick hone once in awhile.

OK, intrigued.  Pic of what you are talking about please.

I've been debating diamond stones or this.  I have no experience on stones and have used a lansky up until know and just want something more refined.

Huh, that's a new one I haven't heard of yet.  Looks similar in execution to the Edge Pro.

I recently asked a guy in another thread who was "upgrading" from an Edge Pro to a KME system (kinda similar) what his thoughts on differences were since I have been looking more at Wicked Edge system. These quotes are kinda out of context, but you'll get the gist.  Discussion here, little over half way down.

He updated the group later to say the KME has been giving him better results and is easier to use.  He has been very pleased.

Not that any of this is a direct response to the system you are considering, but perhaps as you assess it, some of the considerations SecretSquirrel talked about will help.

ETA: I spent some time this weekend with the knife fiend brothers (KFB) again and they are still insistent that doing a good job free hand with good diamond stones is the way to go (as others in this thread have noted).

I don't trust myself.  If you don't know what you are doing, you can mess up a good knife fast trying to sharpen it.  I am probably going to get a system at some point or con the KFB to sharpen my blades for me.  One of them already kinda offered. Just not sure I want to be indebted to guys I refer to as the KFB.