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Posted: 2/8/2006 6:31:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 8:56:24 AM EDT by pathfinder74]
Just learned about Kerambit knives. I saw one in a Defense Weapons magazine, but didn't know anything about it. The one I saw was the fixed blade Emerson Karambit. I was intrigued by both the curved blade and the finger hole handle.

I check out Emerson's site where I realized this type of knife is a "fighting" knife and there are apparently special techniques specifically for the use of this type of knife. I also had a quick shot of sticker shock on the prices of the Karambit.

I found a few on eBay for siginificantly less in price (both the Emerson and the knockoffs).

After reading that I was wondering why Emerson doesn't make a double-edged karambit knife.

I checked out karambit on Wikipedia. Also an interested read. Here's another link to a "history of" write-up.

I don't know squat about knife fighting although I thought the idea was interesting after seeing the movie The Hunted and seeing the structured movements. Seems like it would be something most people could learn through repetition and muscle memory.

I also found a non-metallic version.

Anywho... just thought I'd share my new discovery with those that might be as clueless as I am.

Here are a couple archives threads for the paid members
Karambit Knives, what are some of the better low cost ones?
Karambits
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:33:34 AM EDT
There used to be a guy here who knew a bit about it. But he's banned now.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:42:25 AM EDT
I've seen them too, but never jumped at it. I've played with the Emerson model at a store before. Very well constructed as all their pieces, but I just don't see where they would be better than other folding knives. I would think it would be difficult to manipulate in a stressful situation. The curved blade allows a longer cutting edge without increasing the overall length of the blade. Be advised though, Karambits are HUGE if you're thinking about carrying a folding one in your pocket. MJD
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:25:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By highwayman:
I've seen them too, but never jumped at it. I've played with the Emerson model at a store before. Very well constructed as all their pieces, but I just don't see where they would be better than other folding knives. I would think it would be difficult to manipulate in a stressful situation. The curved blade allows a longer cutting edge without increasing the overall length of the blade.



Go to here and watch the dude open it. I would have agreed with you if I hadn't seen this. Seems like, with practice, it'd be just as quick as any other knife. Just like anything... practice parctice practice.

From the Wiki

From a self-defense standpoint, the smaller, single-edged versions of this knife are thought to be more intuitive to an untrained wielder, when used in a slashing action much like the claws of an animal. The type of damage is also theorized to be more conducive in defending oneself, where lethality is less important and can even be a liability. Proponents argue that stab wounds or “slicing” wounds from straight blades are often not felt immediately by an attacker because of adrenaline, allowing them to continue to attack even if fatally wounded. Therefore, the concave blade (sometimes called a “hawk-bill” blade) of the kerambit, while not very effective for more lethal stabbing, is capable of a much more painful ripping action when raked across an attacker’s hands, arms or torso. It still can be lethal, however, if major arteries such as the femoral or carotid are severed. For this reason there are similarly-shaped weapons made of wood or plastic, pointed at the end, that are used in a clawing/ripping motion.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:28:02 AM EDT
I believe the Karambit was a small utility blade that would double as a self defense blade when needed. Emerson makes a fine product and he definitely knows about knife fighting but they are pretty pricey. I have found Emerson blades to be worth the money though. A friend of mine, who is a Kali instructor, has a Karambit from Kris Cutlery. It is a slightly different design from the Emerson, but made very well. The only complaint I had about it was the scabbard was a simple wooden design. I would get a custom kydex rig for it. I believe these blades are made from 5160 carbon spring steel if I am not mistaken. Here are some links,

www.kriscutlery.com/other/index_korambit.html
www.kriscutlery.com/other/index_korambit2.html
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:29:55 PM EDT
I found this on Cold Steel (link) and a bunch on eBay.


FGX KARAMBIT
Specifications:
Weight: 2.3 oz.
Thick: 7.5mm
Blade: 4"
Handle: 4 1/2” long.
Material: Grivory with Kraton grip
Overall: 8 1/2"
$14.99





Would probably make a good starter before plunking down the coin on the Emerson.

Anyone know if "Grivory (remind me of Liger... did Napolean Dynamite come up with that name for that material?) with Kraton grip" will set off the TSA metal detectors?



On an off-note: The push dagger/knife looks pretty groovey. Again, I don't know much about them thought I suspect you'd be in some shit if you were caught with one.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:43:36 PM EDT
Also another good Karambit that I neglected to mention above is the Steve Tarani design. His site has tons of good info about Karambits in general.

www.karambit.com/
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:00:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:
Also another good Karambit that I neglected to mention above is the Steve Tarani design. His site has tons of good info about Karambits in general.

www.karambit.com/



Awesome link... thanks dude.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 2:35:40 PM EDT by dghboy315]
i too have just started learning about karambits and they intrigue me. from what i've read, there is a bit of controversy over whether it is truely a good utility knife or not. i would bet a double egded one would be much more useful than a model w/ only the curved edge sharpened. most say it is a good self defense knife. but i still have not found a good answer to why it is a better SD knife than a normal folder or fixed blade. i ordered a karambit trainer the the first instructional video from steve tarani's www.karambit.com , just to see what the big deal is about. tarani is a very well respected knife and close combat instructor.

also, busse combat knives is coming out with a new karambit design soon - www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386584

the hunted's knife scenes rocked. the character of riddick in pitch black and the chronicles of riddick also uses karambit type knife moves.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 2:35:24 PM EDT by dghboy315]
chronicles of riddick

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:58:43 PM EDT
For info purposes the guys that trained Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro are practitioners and instructors of Sayoc Kali.

Check www.Sayoc.com for more info.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:35:38 PM EDT
Riddicks knives....

source
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:13:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Riddicks knives....
www.bynoon.com/images/movie25.jpg
source




those are the ones he uses later in the movie on the prison planet.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:24:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 5:24:57 AM EDT by Hagakure]
It seems to me like the Karambit would really shine in the CQB arena. That being said, I t also seems to me that in the Utility area it would be somewhat lacking. No prying, sawing, chopping. Though pretty interested , I'm not so sure yet It would or could take the place of any other knives I carry for duty use. Maybe as a sort of supplement. Something I would have to ponder on.

Edit for spelling.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:00:35 AM EDT
It never really occured to me until I becmae interested in thi knife how much our government must hate th idea of citizens defending themselves.

They must think we are all just the biggest idiots. Doubled edged blades are pretty much illegal to carry as far as I have gathered. How retarded is that?

I know it's pretty much a mirror image of the stupidity that governs our guns laws, but...

For one thing... who the hell commits crimes with knives?
And the people who commit crimes with knives obviously aren't too concerned with any other laws.

What rationale do they apply to double edged blade in order to justify disarming us in that department?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 11:18:40 AM EDT
Well it seems that disarming the public is thier main goal, as it was Hitlers and it worked well for him.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:23:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 4:23:54 AM EDT by pathfinder74]
If they're disarming us with that kind of intent I can't see why they would go as far as knives. Everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:04:57 PM EDT
Now I'm torn...

The Hossom/Dionaldi



or the Emerson


This is so funny to me because I didn't think I was this into knives. I used to love them as a kid, but I thought guns was the next step... now I like both. I need more money...
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 12:11:46 PM EDT by dghboy315]
matt burkett has started doing podcasts, and his first podcast is on a karambit master at the shot show. it's short, but pretty cool to see the guy in action. matt explains how to access the podcast on his wetsite - mattburkett.com/

read the 1st entry. you will need itunes.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:35:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Now I'm torn...

The Hossom/Dionaldi
www.s4supply.com/images/600_CuttersHossom.JPG


or the Emerson
www.karambit.com/picture_library/karambit-fixed.jpg

This is so funny to me because I didn't think I was this into knives. I used to love them as a kid, but I thought guns was the next step... now I like both. I need more money...



Knives are very addictive, almost as much if not more so than firearms. Those are two great Karambits. Check out this one from Valiant Trading Company. Pretty sweet little blade. Remember, the prices on the Valiant site are in Australian dollars, so it is actually much less.

its on the bottom of the page,

www.valiantco.com/newproduct.html
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:50:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:
Knives are very addictive, almost as much if not more so than firearms. Those are two great Karambits. Check out this one from Valiant Trading Company. Pretty sweet little blade. Remember, the prices on the Valiant site are in Australian dollars, so it is actually much less.

its on the bottom of the page,

www.valiantco.com/newproduct.html



Kind of looks like a Strider PS. Personally I like the synthetic handled ones. I don't like wood on anything... knives, guns, broomsticks, etc. But that is a sweet knife.

I've been jumping around in bladeforums.com and usualsuspect.net checking out all the pretty pretty pictures. There's some pretty wild stuff out there. Not much of it turns me on at this point. I'm considering the two I mentioned above... and the only other one I'd really want, which is way out of my price range, is the Strider PS. I'll probably pick up a Cold Steel FGX so I can "practice" without cutting myself all up.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 5:19:10 AM EDT by DaddyDett]
The Kamis at Himalayan Imports BirGorkha in Nepal occaisionally do runs of Kerambits.
There is a good possibility of a run in the coming months.
Hand forged from work hardened spring steel, these knives are just plain beautiful.

Himalayan Imports

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:19:53 AM EDT
Do not get the Emerson unless you have girly hands. The ring is too small.

The Tarani folders are the best folders, and the Striders are the best fixed.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:18:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:
Do not get the Emerson unless you have girly hands. The ring is too small.
The Tarani folders are the best folders, and the Striders are the best fixed.



I don't like the folders as much. I have pretty sknny fingers so the Emerson should work fine for me. Thanks for the advice though.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:29:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaddyDett:
The Kamis at Himalayan Imports BirGorkha in Nepal occaisionally do runs of Kerambits.
There is a good possibility of a run in the coming months.
Hand forged from work hardened spring steel, these knives are just plain beautiful.

Himalayan Imports

DaddyDett



Man, I was going to mention this, but you got there first. I really hope they do, they truly are beautiful, and real workhorses too.

By the way, I assume this is the same DaddyDett from over on blade forums. I received the Villager Pen Knife today from the 2-14 Deals. I will post pics of it soon over there as well as here. Pretty sweet little blade.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:21:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:

Originally Posted By DaddyDett:
The Kamis at Himalayan Imports BirGorkha in Nepal occaisionally do runs of Kerambits.
There is a good possibility of a run in the coming months.
Hand forged from work hardened spring steel, these knives are just plain beautiful.

Himalayan Imports

DaddyDett



Man, I was going to mention this, but you got there first. I really hope they do, they truly are beautiful, and real workhorses too.

By the way, I assume this is the same DaddyDett from over on blade forums. I received the Villager Pen Knife today from the 2-14 Deals. I will post pics of it soon over there as well as here. Pretty sweet little blade.




You assume correctly.
Sharking time soon, adios!

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:39:21 AM EDT
IMO unless you have a working knowledge of basic FMA/Indonesian MA techniques most of the advantage of using the Karambit is lost. Most karambit techniques work off the passing and checking moves within the pekite range and target the inside of the forarms and side of the chest or are utilized in Sumatran silat counter grappling techniques useing unique hooking and uppercut type cuts into the lower torso. Otherwise the karambit is an expensive box cutter. The karambit is also not very effective against body or leg cuts unless the oponent is wearing light clothing. I beleive the karambit is a cutlery fad that is starting to fade within the "tactical sheik" crowd who are now moving on to some other wonder weapon to hype. I beleive this is why the Spyderco and Emerson folding karambits are now discontinued and the Emerson and Strider semi production fixed blade models are so expensive. Steve Tarani has the best (maybe only) book out on modern use of the karambit.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:48:10 PM EDT
I agree... it probably does become an expensive box cutter for a lot of folks... if they even use it that far. Looks likea lot of folks just buy them and look at them... much like a lot of the people around here with brand new looking AR's with all the rails filled with some sort of gadget.

I plan to check out some videos and try to learn at least a little about the proper techniques.

BTW... I made up my mind on the Emerson Karambit and the Hossom/Dionaldi... in my first ARFcom tradition decision... I got both. Bought them from a guy over on UsualSuspect.net. I think I got a pretty good deal.

I'll post pix when I get them.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:40:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I agree... it probably does become an expensive box cutter for a lot of folks... if they even use it that far. Looks likea lot of folks just buy them and look at them... much like a lot of the people around here with brand new looking AR's with all the rails filled with some sort of gadget.

I plan to check out some videos and try to learn at least a little about the proper techniques.

BTW... I made up my mind on the Emerson Karambit and the Hossom/Dionaldi... in my first ARFcom tradition decision... I got both. Bought them from a guy over on UsualSuspect.net. I think I got a pretty good deal.

I'll post pix when I get them.



Awesome! Definitely post pics. It is a great idea to look into the proper techniques of using such a blade. Congrats!

Now, what blade is next?


Link Posted: 2/16/2006 9:59:18 PM EDT
Although video or DVD may be your only avenue for training, I think you would be better off training with a FMA class or group, or if possible an actual Silat instuctor. Tarani's karambit stuff is very strongly based in FMA and trying to pick up the details of various principles used without actually training with an instructor and with experienced training partners is almost impossible. Karambit stuff is unique among SEA knfie combatives but still uses basic concepts found in all FMA and Silat, which is harder to learn from video than most people think. Karambit techniques require a keen sense of timing, distancing and footwork to set up and position both the oponent and defender. Dont get me totally wrong, as getting a trainer and some videos/DVDs is better than getting a live karambit and training with some guy from your Karate class. I would also point out that the karambit is not a beginners weapon in any SEA martial system I have trained in or researched, so you might keep that in mind in your quest.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 3:59:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torakan:
Although video or DVD may be your only avenue for training, I think you would be better off training with a FMA class or group, or if possible an actual Silat instuctor.



Baby steps dude, baby steps.

I'm definitely interested in learning though. I know you can only learn so much from a video... kind of like The Karate Kid learning from a book.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 1:36:26 PM EDT
Its been a while since ive seen it but i thought the TOPS tomm Brown Tracker was the one in The Hunted (I was pretty sure) look at it here that place also has the Emmerson karambit at a good price if it is in stock. But i do like the karambits quite a bit.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By younggunner:
Its been a while since ive seen it but i thought the TOPS tomm Brown Tracker was the one in The Hunted (I was pretty sure) look at it here that place also has the Emmerson karambit at a good price if it is in stock. But i do like the karambits quite a bit.



You're right on the Hunted knife. When I mentioned that I was just referring to knife fighting... not the knives in particular.

And that price on the Emerson Karambit is pretty sweet. On karambit.com it's A LOT more than that.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:41:35 PM EDT
fyi

karambit.com online sales is down. i ordered a trainer and a dvd a few weeks ago and did not receive anything, so i called them today. well it seems that even though the site still takes orders, they do not go thru. the guy said they were having production problems. production and sales might be resumed in maybe 4 months.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:42:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By younggunner:
Its been a while since ive seen it but i thought the TOPS tomm Brown Tracker was the one in The Hunted (I was pretty sure) look at it here that place also has the Emmerson karambit at a good price if it is in stock. But i do like the karambits quite a bit.



You're right on the Hunted knife. When I mentioned that I was just referring to knife fighting... not the knives in particular.And that price on the Emerson Karambit is pretty sweet. On karambit.com it's A LOT more than that.



Ok i see what you mean now, the link i gave you has great customer service and good prices I bought my Cold Steel R1 Military classic from them.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 1:35:27 PM EDT
While they look cool enough not being a very effective at stabbing has kept me from buying/carrying one so far.

I'd rather be able to cut and stab. And if your thinking The Hunted was realistic knife fighting your sadly mistaken. I havent seen the movie but every trained knife fighter who's watched it wasnt too impressed.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:13:10 PM EDT
I found another one that's pretty flippin sweet.

RICHARD DERESPINA MODEL 8

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:33:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I found another one that's pretty flippin sweet.

RICHARD DERESPINA MODEL 8
www.tadgear.com/edged%20tools/custom%20knives/images%20for%20pages/model8-blk.jpg



Yikes, that one is pricey! Neat lookin though.

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 10:50:10 PM EDT
STRIDER makes a couple wicked KARAMBITS.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 5:24:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 1:48:18 PM EDT by pathfinder74]

Originally Posted By gene5:
STRIDER makes a couple wicked KARAMBITS.



They really do. The Strider PS Karambit, HS, and MB.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:51:04 AM EDT
I picked up an Emerson and a Dionaldo-Hossum.



The others on my wishlist will have to wait a little.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:53:32 AM EDT
Looks like Cold Steel will be making a "real" version of the KGX Nightshade Karambit

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:26:12 PM EDT
I've been playing around with the thought of kerambit for sometime now. I finally got off my butt and made a cardboard model to get the feel for it before I bought one or in my case had it custom built. I'll get pictures up of my model and when I get the final product received from my knife maker I'll add those also.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:23:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 8:26:27 AM EDT by Torakan]
Pathfinder, now that you have your knives, I'd like an opinion on how you will carry them and what type of techniques you will utilize in using your new bladeware. As I have stated in the past, the Karambit was never ment to be a versitile self defense tool and is employed within a narrow and specific set of techniques. The Karambit does work very well in counter grappling and counter grabbing applictions however.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:49:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I picked up an Emerson and a Dionaldo-Hossum.

www.mattandpamazon.com/images/matt/Guns/GEAR_05.jpg

The others on my wishlist will have to wait a little.



Is that a pic of yours? Very nice. Let us know what you learn in regards to their use and how they perform.

With that said, More Pics Please!!

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:07:41 AM EDT
I actually prefer he EMERSON after playing with it at the Emerson booth at the Shot Show. Shawn the rep there showed me how to stab with it and i was amazed. tho I wouldnt want to buy one and learn to use it myself cause of the price as well as all the cuts Shawn showed me he had. I liked the Emerson design because of the one handed opening design of the wave. It is quick and fast. Wish I had that feature on my old CQC7B but it works fine with thumb stud. Just much faster with the wave feature. Price is up there but I think they were selling for $132-Shot Show price. Shoulda picked up one cause now I regret it seeing the retail prices of $200 and up. Met Mr. Emerson himself and his wife....I dont wanna mess with him lol. He is built up and if looks could kill I d be dead already! But fortunately he was a nice guy to joke around with.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:
Is that a pic of yours? Very nice. Let us know what you learn in regards to their use and how they perform.
With that said, More Pics Please!!



Yes, the pic is mine. I was pretty impressed with myself with how it came out.
I'll be taking more when I get my MOD Lady Hawk this week.

I'll keep you posted when I start learning. Right now I'm kind of partial to how the Hossum feels vs. the Emerson.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:23:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:
Is that a pic of yours? Very nice. Let us know what you learn in regards to their use and how they perform.
With that said, More Pics Please!!



Yes, the pic is mine. I was pretty impressed with myself with how it came out.
I'll be taking more when I get my MOD Lady Hawk this week.

I'll keep you posted when I start learning. Right now I'm kind of partial to how the Hossum feels vs. the Emerson.



Right on. By the way, here is another Karambit for you to purchase, and this one is in INFI!

www.bussecombat.com/knives/

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:19:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lefthandblack:
Right on. By the way, here is another Karambit for you to purchase, and this one is in INFI!
www.bussecombat.com/knives/



Seen those... not really that crazy about them.

So I'm planning on getting the three Striders, a Derespina, a Steve Ryan Razorback, at least one R.J. Martin, and probably an Emerson folder... for starters.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 11:38:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dghboy315:
those are the ones he uses later in the movie on the prison planet.



Is it this one?



Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:49:15 PM EDT
IMHO if you are carring a handgun for SD you should be carring a EKI Karmabit on the offside for weapons retention. Most people can not stab very well with their off hand but they can cut like hell. The EKIs with the Wave are the fastest deploying folder in the world. I EDC my EKI Karabit on and off duty for this reason.
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