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Page Armory » 50 Cal
Posted: 2/21/2006 6:51:09 PM EDT
OK, so there's this guy in my evening class...He's in the Air Force Reserves and thinks he's an expert on everything military. Tonight he was showing us these "de-classified" videos from the sand box of .50 cal snipers taking out bad guys. (Telling us that only he could get these "de-classified" videos and had issue with someone else who said he's got copies too...Then someone else spoke up and said "Ah, dude, they're declassified, anyone can get them", which shut him up...So you get the picture about this guy...)

Anyways, he starts lecturing us on .50 cal ballastics, telling us that the .50 cal is the only "ballastically perfect" round, because the crossover POI is 500M and 1000M, going on to explain that the round goes down to 500M, then when it hits 500M, it starts going back up with the same crossover at 1000M again.

Of course I called BS on him, and that no bullet goes back up after it starts it's way down (unless it gets an updraft). But he insisted that the .50 cal was the only bullet that had this trajectory. I'm not a .50 cal guy, but this sounds like B.S. to me, and after looking at the ballastic chart tacked in this forum, it does appear to be B.S. indeed.

Anyone ever hear of a .50 cal round that starts back up on it's own? He basically said the trajectory was like a sine wave. I'm tempted to get him a book on some Newton's Laws.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:54:49 PM EDT
If it sounds like BS.......
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:12:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 8:22:09 PM EDT by uglygun]
Let me guess, another REMF touting himself as an expert. Probably same class of fucktard that I once ran into at the range, a damned computer programmer with a whopping 4 years in the service who insisted on calling my AR15s a piece of shit based upon his service which probably accounts from familiarization in basic and occasional range quals if that.

If you got to see these supposed "sniper kills" with the 50BMG, head by here and pay close attention to the rock chuck shooting videos and tell me if they look familiar.

www.rmvh.com/Scenes.htm

The chuck shooting preview was basically ripped off and badly edited into an "afgan sniper" video fake.

Wish I could find the person responsible for it and cut his achilles tendons with a bolt cutter then watch him flop around like a fish.


The 50BMG is not a "perfect" anything. It's a stupid goddamned bullet for god's sake. Fire it and it begins to fall immediately upon exiting the barrel.

Print out Zak Smith's ballistics chart that is tacked at the top of this thread and tell him to point out ANY POINT IN IT'S TRAJECTORY where it is ignoring the basic principles of gravity.

If zero'd at 1k yards, the bullet is going to be around 8-10 inches above the line of sight if shooting at 500 yards. Basic math principles here, if it takes 23.75MOA to hit at 1k yards and only 7.75MOA to hit at 500 yards, the difference between the 500 yard zero and the 1k yard zero is 16MOA which a person would HAVE to account for(either by dialing back down to a 500 yard zero or by using appropriate hold UNDER) to hit at 500 yards.


Please do us a favor and make this guy look like the bitch that he is for us. He is a liar and a POS, his status in the class needs to be lowered to an appropriate level.

But first, let him really stick his foot in his mouth. See if you can get him to brag of any claims about being able to shoot a silver dollar at 1 mile or some similar level of rediculous accuracy.

Think the 50BMG 5 shot 1k yard world record is something right around 2 inches fired by Skip Talbot.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:51:07 AM EDT
ALL bullets fall at the same rate. Factor in velocity and you've got a trajectory. The diffrent curves in a trajectory are caused by diffrent ballistic coefficients causing some bullets to loose velocity faster than others. This guy needs to take a physics class, he is full of BS.

-Scott
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:45:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:03:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The ballistic arc will cross the POA at 33m and again at 500m.



Does this arc change from barrel to barrel, round to round or is this figure static no matter what metric is thrown at the situation?

Good question back40!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:52:28 AM EDT
Physically speaking, the bullet is dropping the second it leaves the barrel, regardless of the arc it begins on.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:39:44 PM EDT
Upon leaving the barrel, ALL projectiles accelerate at 32 ft/sec^2 towards the earth. Even at 100000 ft/sec, no matter what the size, no matter what the weight.

It's not just the force of gravity, IT'S THE LAW!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:46:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 10:47:45 PM EDT by tfod]
IIRC 9.8m/sec acceleration is gravity; therefore to be "flatter" is to have a higher velocity and travel as much distance as possible compared to a slower projectile within the same time
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:25:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:15:39 AM EDT
Yep....everyone is pretty much right on....It would be pretty cool if the bullet did do a sine wave though....or better yet...a square wave.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 10:56:10 AM EDT by DvlDog]
i find this syndrome to be endemic to air force guys. a lot of my friends in my home town ended up in the air guard and i went to a BBQ at one of their houses last summer. these guys talk like theyre the pointy tip of the spear. one dude went on and on about how hairy it was in AFG in the early days of the war. come to find out he was a C-130 crew cheif, never spent more than 24hours in country. i said "hey man, you know all those guys that get off your plane and stay for like 6 months getting shot at after you go back to germany...thats me"
about an hour later a guy shows up in DCUs talking shit to some chicks like he is crawling into caves looking for OBL. someone asked him why the DCUs and he puffed out his chest and said "because im attached to CENTCOM" come to find out he's a weatherman. how impressive. i got the shits of it after awhile and said "look guys, we all have our jobs, and each one of us is an important cog in a big machine but stop trying to impress eachother with your rear-area adventures. see the guy pumping the keg, he did 6years as a SEAL and im a Marine with 3 combat tours and you dont hear us talking a bunch of shit" my wife made me appologize to the host and made me leave. alcohols a hell of a drug.

why cant some guys just be proud of what they do without trying to make it sound like more than it is.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:57:54 AM EDT
I wish I had some of those Laws of Physics defying bullets.

I once spoke with an AF mechanic who said that the cannon on fighter aircraft shot bullets so fast, they were almost touching in the barrel. How they unlocked the breach and stuffed another cartridge in there while there were ten other projectiles going down the tube, I don't know.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:05:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 11:06:27 AM EDT by PromptCritical]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I wish I had some of those Laws of Physics defying bullets.

I once spoke with an AF mechanic who said that the cannon on fighter aircraft shot bullets so fast, they were almost touching in the barrel. How they unlocked the breach and stuffed another cartridge in there while there were ten other projectiles going down the tube, I don't know.



Simple math blows that one out of the sky:

muzzle velocity: 3000 ft/sec (guess)

Rate of fire: 6000 rnd/min (give or take) = 100 rnd/sec.

In one second of firing the gun will put out a stream of 100 rnds that is 3000 feet long. Quick math says they are 30 feet apart. That would have to be one long freakin' barrel...
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:54:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i find this syndrome to be endemic to air force guys. a lot of my friends in my home town ended up in the air guard and i went to a BBQ at one of their houses last summer. these guys talk like theyre the pointy tip of the spear. one dude went on and on about how hairy it was in AFG in the early days of the war. come to find out he was a C-130 crew cheif, never spent more than 24hours in country. i said "hey man, you know all those guys that get off your plane and stay for like 6 months getting shot at after you go back to germany...thats me"
about an hour later a guy shows up in DCUs talking shit to some chicks like he is crawling into caves looking for OBL. someone asked him why the DCUs and he puffed out his chest and said "because im attached to CENTCOM" come to find out he's a weatherman. how impressive. i got the shits of it after awhile and said "look guys, we all have our jobs, and each one of us is an important cog in a big machine but stop trying to impress eachother with your rear-area adventures. see the guy pumping the keg, he did 6years as a SEAL and im a Marine with 3 combat tours and you dont hear us talking a bunch of shit" my wife made me appologize to the host and made me leave. alcohols a hell of a drug.

why cant some guys just be proud of what they do without trying to make it sound like more than it is.



Never served a lick of service and have never once claimed that I do.

But for some reason when I come across military personel like you describe I get in a rage because it is giving the modest guys with a sense of humility, like yourself and others, a bad name.

Love busting the bullshitters and dropping their social status a few bars, not sure why. Maybe I feel it is owed to those who actually do the really hairy shit and never seek any praise or thanks for doing it.

To all the humble and straight laced military personel, they get my thanks for their service. The posers need to just shut up and do their job they are paid to do to get similar graditude.
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