So I finally purchased a Colt 614. While waiting for the F4 to be approved, have a few questions:

I have a Colt factory 4 position FCG. Will installing it increase or decrease the value of the gun? I'll install the FCG regardless, so I'm just wondering.

I have the following Colt factory uppers: 10.3" MK18, 11.5", and 14.5". Do I need a certain buffer type to ensure all 3 uppers will run?

Thanks in advance!

It'll make no difference.
Peraonally i dont like how m16 burst you can let out 1 or 2 shots, then on  the next triger pull it will let out the remaining 1 to 2 rounds.

I did got burst on my hk sear, even though most recommend against it. I believe wirh hk bust it resest to 3 shots every time.


Id say try it and see if you like it...it is your gun.
As far as buffers you should be able to use one for all 3 uppers.

No offense meant, but this is how what you propose usually plays out:

YMMV, and all that stuff.

Congrats!
But you know the rules.. Pics or didnt happen!

As for the buffer..
The OEM fixed stock should work fine with any configuration. If you plan to replace it with a collapsible one,do your tests but I'd get a H2 buffer.

I bought a nice 614 and love it.  Sent it off to Ken at Specialized Armament Warehouse for a Colt carbine stock setup, full diagnostic,  and replacement of the FCG and all springs, etc.  The gun runs great and I also have a .22 conversion for it that is fun.

Wow - that's a lot of M16 3rb hate! Definitely something to keep in mind. I have 3rb on my FNC and HK, and rarely use it. But it's a good option to have.

Will definitely make sure that it works prior to re-engraving the gun! Thanks!

To paraphrase an old football saying, "Three round burst is like kissing your sister".

Burst is for the unskilled. You will probably put many rounds downrange, and will develop skills to allow you to shoot burst when in auto. Then you will understand why nobody likes burst. And burst on an AR is abortion.

I assume this is sarcastic, but if not, that is a 50% drop easily imo.

The most annoying characteristic of the M16 3-round burst is that it is always engaged, and non-resetting. This means that when you flip the fun-switch to "BURST" and clamp down on the trigger, your burst will either be one, two, or three rounds, depending on the initial position of the burst cam. If you begin firing in burst mode with the burst cam aligned to give you all three rounds, but you let off the trigger after firing two rounds, your next "burst" will be a single shot.

The other annoying thing about the M16 burst trigger is that the trigger pull weight is constantly changing. It goes through a cycle of three pull weights, then resets and repeats the cycle. This happens even when the M16 is set on SEMI, which is particularly annoying.

i took my A2 and removed all the guts...put in a geissele trigger....no burst..only FA for me

if you get a collapsing stock you may have to mess with buffers and springs....i have 2 springs and 4 buffers...it all depends what upper i put on it....ive made my A2 into a M4 though

congrats...i considered getting a 614 at one time....wish i had gone that route...the extra $$ for an A2 isnt really worth it

1) 3 rd burst is pointless IMO, I can get 3 rd burst consistently on a full auto trigger, its not hard.
2) I use and H1 buffer with flat wire spring. If I have an upper that isn't running correctly I install an adjustable gas block on the upper and tune it to run properly with the H1 buffer, swapping buffers is annoying. I use the titanium SLR 7 gas block.

Thanks for your input, guys! Other than philosophy, it sounds like there's nothing technically wrong with 3rb, other than poor design (no reset).

I still plan on installing the FCG, and engraving the gun if everything works. The way I see it, the 614 isn't a collector's gun like the M16A1 or M16A2, so re-engraving the gun isn't as big of a deal.

It looks like the pictured 4-position kit comes with a spacer plate which is marked with its corresponding fire control settings. A spacer plate is used with that kit to allow its longer selector lever to rotate over the receiver's unaltered selector stops. I believe that there is a different 4-position kit (Colts?) that requires the removal of the selector stops. At that point, there's no going back...

These days, ALL of the Factory Colts are Collectors' Items and their prices reflect that fact. Welding over and grinding the original roll marks, then re-marking, then removing the selector stops and refinishing the Colt receiver will likely reduce its value by at least $5,000. It would still hold a slight premium over an aftermarket AR15 "Registered Receiver" conversion. It's your property and your decision though, so enjoy your new rifle.

i disagree about the 614 not being a collector gun...its a unique version and i wouldnt do anything to it....i assume you paid $20-23k for it......or more....i wouldnt engrave a gun i paid $1,500 for....you are lowering its value by thousands if you do it...i wouldnt customize a gun that would ruin its value unless its a $500 gun or less.....your wrecking a piece of history

there is no purpose to a 3 round burst since you can just do a 3 round burst yourself in FA...sell that trigger and get a Geissele and dont engrave...

is your 614 Burst or FA marked?

some think 614's will rise about A1's someday...they are more rare.....if given the choice between the 2 id pick the 614 myself....i think its unique and cool

i have a Ruger Ac556 with the 3 options.....i find myself never using the burst....its just a waste of space....a good, quality trigger will get you that 3 round burst all by yourself in FA

First, congratulations on your 614!

I would recommend against the 4-position FCG. The burst function on M16s SUCKS. It makes for a very poor trigger pull and it doesn't reset until all 3 rounds are fired...i.e., pull 2 rounds on burst and pull the trigger again, it will fire one round. I would instead take the money you would spend on the craptastic burst FCG and put it toward a Geissele SSF, which really makes the M16 a pleasure to shoot.

As for uppers, buy quality uppers to your hearts content. I have a couple Mk18 cqbr uppers (LMT and noveske), various Colt m4 and m4a1 sopmod uppers, and a noveske n4 middy upper. Also had a KAC sr15e3 mod1 upper for awhile. My hands down favorite upper is a friend's LMT 10.5" MRP upper with Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. With his SiCo Saker 762 and the carrier set to suppressed on my M16 lower with Colt m4 receiver extension and h3 buffer, it is literally like shooting a 22lr. It is unbelievably controllable.

Here are a couple videos of us shooting 18" steel at 100 yds...2-4 round burst with almost 100% hits firing off a barricade:


Slooooooooow motion

M16 with LMT MRP upper, GT sbc

As others have said screw 3 round burst. Throw a SSF in it and learn to shoot it. As for buffer the Vltor A5 system is awesome. I can run a 8.5 in blackout all the way up to 20 inch 5.56 with no changes. It just runs.

Congrats OP, the wait will be painful.

DO NOT RE-ENGRAVE YOUR FACTORY COLT TRANSFERABLE 614!!!!!!!!!

Seriously. Resist the urge. Do not under any circumstances alter your factory colt in a way that can never be reversed. A non-Colt RR convert? Sure. A factory Colt? No F'ing way.

You will tank the value. I wouldn't buy such an item unless it was at a significant discount. And even then I would likely pay a few grand more to get an unmolested factory gun. When you're $20k +, it's not unlikely that someone would spend an extra $5k to get what they want.

The 614 is a factory made select fire MG; is most certainly a collectible. Treat it as such. You'll be happier in the long run if you heed this advice.

Hmm...definitely something to think about then. Thanks again!

if losing $5k means nothing to you, then do it its your gun.....for history sake id still recommend keeping your 614 as is........

send some pics of the gun...id like to see it?

As has already been alluded to above, you cant just engrave the burst position on the lower, drop on some alumablack and be done.

The original Colt-4-Way kit has the burst setting where it already says "Auto" at the 3'o-clock position.  It will look like shit if you try and engrave burst over the top of where it already says "auto".  

The only option would be to weld over the existing "auto" setting, grind the weld flush, and then re-engrave the "burst" marking at 3'0-clock and "Auto" at 6'0-clock position.  (the 9'0-clock will stay "safe" and the Noon position "semi".

For the Colt-4-Way to work you will also have to mill off the selector stops.  (or drastically cut the selector arm to a nub)

The DMPS-4-Way kit will require you to weld over both the "semi" and "auto" markings.  "semi" will become "auto" at the noon position and "Auto" will become "semi",  burst can be added at the 6'0-clock position and safe will remain at the 9'0-clock position.

The one benefit of the DMPS kit is that it comes with an extended selector that is designed (in most cases) to clear the existing selector stops so you dont have to mill them off.


A couple of thoughts on this idea.

- As shitty as the M16 4-Way kit is,  the Colt system at least has a logical progression to the positions (safe->semi->burst->auto).  The DMPS 4-Way-Kit while clearing the selector stops has a retarded (safe->auto->semi->burst) arrangement.  Dont permanently modify the gun to take the fucked up DPMS selector arrangement.

- Removing the factory anodizing and welding over the existing selector marking/s on a transferable Colt receiver is madness.   Take it from somebody who has welded over selector markings on custom projects, its a dicey proposition.

1. To weld over existing selector markings you are going to have to remove the factory anodizing.
2. You will have no access to original base material as a TIG filler.   So you will be forced to use another aluminum alloy as a filler that wont be the same as the existing aluminum the receiver is made out of.  This will weaken the already thin walls of the fire control pocket not only from the heat but also the now mixed metalurgy.
3. You will get some level of receiver shrinkage in the welding process.   You will need to find somebody with a jig to act as a heat sink as well as hold everything straight.... otherwise your rear take-down pin may never go through a normal upper again as the rear pin holes will move forward as the receiver shrinks due to the welding.
4. You will never be able to properly restore an anodized finish to the lower and the receiver will require some type of paint coating to hide the weld/remarking job.

If you want to run a 4-Way-Kit, get the DMPS kit with the selector that clears the stops and the plate that gives you the selector markings without modifying the receiver.  The existing DPMS kit selector plates are red which look extra wonky, but maybe have a custom plate made that is gray to match your receiver so it doesnt stand out so bad.

If you are intent on permanently modifying the receiver, use the Colt kit.  (at least it will match the factory Colt FCG arrangement and use Colt parts).   Find somebody who is an expert in welding over and remarking AR15 receiver markings.   However I would actually be surprised if you will find anybody who will take that job due to the risk of permanently fucking up a transferable M16 receiver in the process.

Personally.. and as already emphatically stated above, I would just run it with a standard SSA FCG as Gene Stoner intended and use your trigger finger for bursts.

If you want a mechanical burst-arrangement get an FNC, AC, or HK sear/trigger pack.

The people telling you to forget the burst are some of the most respectable members on here. As the owner of a registered receiver for 34 years I can tell you there is NO reason to use a burst control. Adds unneeded complexity to a simple system and you can squeeze off how ever many rounds you want with just a little practice. And then to re-engrave a Colt? Stop the madness man! That said, it's your gun. Shoot it for a while and then post the thank you for the good advice.

Congrats!

There isn't a legal or regulatory requirement to re-mark the lower for the burst trigger. If you really want to run the burst trigger at least do so without re-marking the trigger at first.  Once you decide you hate it you won't have that marking to deal with.

The Geissele SSF is wonderful and worth every penny.

Haven't read the other replies, but I will say one thing.  Don't get the burst trigger.

thats what i have....and they go on sale once in a while.....worth every penny.....even the Semi auto Geissele triggers will improve your shooting dramatically...my son has a colt M4 and ive got a Geissele on my Ruger...at some point the trigger slows you down if your going to shoot at multiple targets as fast as possible.....having a light trigger will cut your times down by 25+%

on your Full auto it will make it so you can pick exactly how many rounds you wish to fire...you can do 3 round bursts probably 90% of the time you try if not 100% when you get used to the gun...making the 3 round burst worthless..

for me the mechanics of it being 1,2 or 3 round burst make it worthless.....there's a reason the military is going back to FA

I have Geissele triggers in my F/A Colts as well, picked them up during a periodic sale.  Worth every penny.

Painting factory M16s or worse, re-anodizing them is just dumb to me.


Engraving a factory Colt RR is absolute madness.  FFS, don't do it.

I guess I'm going to be just another echo in the chorus. Forget the burst kit!!! It is worthless. I know it's your rifle and your choice, but don't risk a transferable receiver to welding up and remarking. Like others have said, it will definitely drop the value and destroy a piece of history. Limit your mods to things that can be reversed. Besides, after a few shooting sessions you will hate the burst group. If you absolutely have to try it out, install the DPMS four way group. If your gonna run the burst group with a short barrel upper, make sure you install a M4 burst cam or you will have occasional issues.