40mm chalk rounds are now DD's? - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 40mm chalk rounds are now DD's?

Posted: 8/1/2017 5:06:00 PM EDT

I was revisiting completing a m203 project and recently found some information about an opinion letter stating that the ATF now classifies the M781 target practice round as a DD. First off WTF? Secondly is this information correct?

link to the article

Posted: 8/1/2017 5:07:17 PM EDT

[#1]

From what I remember, they have been for a year or so.

Posted: 8/1/2017 5:21:16 PM EDT

[#2]

I'm finding dealers selling this ammo stating either nothing about its legality (cydes armory) or stating that its not regulated like here.

I was considering loading my own using components from M60 JOE if I did the build but until I know what's what I don't know that I want to even spend the money to complete the launcher.

Posted: 8/1/2017 7:35:22 PM EDT

[#3]

Topic Moved

Posted: 8/2/2017 12:55:19 AM EDT

[#4]

My understanding is that BATFE now considers 40mm smoke, flare, and illumination ammunition to be "low explosives". They took away the small arms ammunition exemption. You'll notice the linked letter only refers to M992 IR flares. I have not seen documentation specifically referring to other rounds.

M781 chalk rounds should not be affected, but some field agents are likely doing it wrong (as usual).

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_21/448778_.html#i4379131
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_21/458683_.html
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_21/471513_ATF_Phone_Call_about_DD_Ammo.html

Posted: 8/2/2017 3:28:29 AM EDT

[#5]

man this is so dumb.

Posted: 8/2/2017 3:33:01 AM EDT

[#6]

No that's BS. I remember reading some articles a while back that people were saying chalk rounds are DD's and it was total misinformed BS back then.

Posted: 8/2/2017 5:07:13 AM EDT

[#7]

I thought this was directly related to the amount of propellant contained in the round. ATF decided the "Explosive Charge" used to launch the projectile was over the magic number and re classed them DD.
There was a lengthy thread on it..?

Posted: 8/2/2017 5:29:09 AM EDT

[#8]

I've talked to both a local ATF agent in Seattle as well as a DD dealer in Seattle and got two different answers.....

The ATF agent pretty much said that "due to the caliber of the round, a FEL was now required to possess 40mm ammunition (regardless of type)"

The DD dealer said "Bullshit". He is also planning on ordering a couple hundred rounds from MAST, so I guess I will be stocking up.

Posted: 8/2/2017 6:40:05 AM EDT

[#9]

That article is dated 2015.

Posted: 8/3/2017 10:27:01 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I thought this was directly related to the amount of propellant contained in the round. ATF decided the "Explosive Charge" used to launch the projectile was over the magic number and re classed them DD.
There was a lengthy thread on it..?

View Quote

No. At least as far as my interactions with ATF went on this- they claimed that since the ammunition is over .50 caliber in diameter, ANY amount of propellent in it makes it an explosive device. Apparently the stance of ATF is that the exemption for propellant from federal explosives regulations doesn't include anything that ATF determines is not ammunition for "small arms".

Posted: 8/4/2017 5:07:32 PM EDT

[#11]

Then shotgun slugs are DD's?

Posted: 8/4/2017 6:48:46 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Then shotgun slugs are DD's?

View Quote

Technically, shotgun ammo falls under the small arms ammo exemption.

Posted: 8/5/2017 8:31:41 AM EDT

[#13]

As someone who is currently waiting on a stamp for my m203 I'm kinda wondering if I need to stock up now. will sellers eventually stop selling this you think?

Posted: 8/6/2017 4:18:43 AM EDT

[#14]

The problem right now is availability. Clyde is out right now. The only place that I know that has any is UNAC and they are on the more expensive side. Really hoping my local dealer gets some from MAST

Posted: 8/6/2017 11:48:39 AM EDT

[#15]

It's always a good time to stock up.

Every time I procrastinate a purchase, I regret it.

Posted: 8/7/2017 3:57:25 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
The problem right now is availability. Clyde is out right now. The only place that I know that has any is UNAC and they are on the more expensive side. Really hoping my local dealer gets some from MAST

View Quote

40MM ammo is always on the pricey side retail. That TXOGMYZ place is on crack at $325/25rnds.

Lately I buy a box a month from UNAC until another group buy comes along.

Posted: 8/8/2017 6:07:34 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

40MM ammo is always on the pricey side retail. That TXOGMYZ place is on crack at $325/25rnds.

Lately I buy a box a month from UNAC until another group buy comes along.

View Quote

Last time I bought from Clyde, which was last year, they were selling factory seconds for $440 shipped/100

I really want to get some from UNAC, but they are priced high and they charge you a credit card fee.

Posted: 8/8/2017 12:01:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Technically, shotgun ammo falls under the small arms ammo exemption.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Then shotgun slugs are DD's?

Technically, shotgun ammo falls under the small arms ammo exemption.

My concern is what RockHard13F said, the ATF can reclassify whatever whenever they want.

Posted: 8/8/2017 12:03:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Check with MAST about components.
They used to sell everything to anyone including the orange float.
It's really simple to roll your own.
Prices were very reasonable, less than $4 per round.

Posted: 8/8/2017 4:13:14 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

My concern is what RockHard13F said, the ATF can reclassify whatever whenever they want.

View Quote

Yes, but you also have to remember that 40mm ammunition is not for "small arms", so reclassifying 40mm is a lot easier than trying to reclassify 12ga ammo.

Posted: 8/8/2017 4:14:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Check with MAST about components.
They used to sell everything to anyone including the orange float.
It's really simple to roll your own.
Prices were very reasonable, less than $4 per round.

View Quote

Yeah, I think last time I priced components out, it was about $5-$6 per round, a little cheaper as you build up stock of Nylon casings and any pushers that can be retrieved.

Posted: 9/10/2017 6:56:15 PM EDT

[#22]

Just came across this discussion. I have hundreds of the components to reload the 40mm chalk rounds. I was stock piling with the intent of getting a 40mm and then came across this. I have lots of once fired blank cases, cleaned and uncleaned nylon cases, plenty of zinc pushers, and maybe 100 brand new nose cones. if any one is interested email me what you are interested in and I can create a for sale listing in the NFA classifieds.

Thanks

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 40mm chalk rounds are now DD's?

Armory » Destructive Devices (DD)

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