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Posted: 5/18/2018 11:12:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. If the Sandman-S didn't exist or I didn't already have one I'd purchase a Vox. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Shouldn't have to pay any royalties. The Keymo was designed to work with SiCo cans so EA has smartly followed suit by using the same thread pitch but promoting the solid DA mounting system. DA now gets to sell more Keymos and muzzle devices. Suppressor accessories add up quickly. When you can offer your product to somebody who is already invested in another "ecosystem" it's a good move. Especially when the mounting system is well regarded. I don't have an immediate need for this can but I am impressed and would've given it a hard look back when I was making my .30 cal can purchases. It will now be a Vox assuming there isn't some major defect upon release |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 4:13:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ihave a sandman S and wanted a modular Omega for the longest time. It will now be a Vox assuming there isn't some major defect upon release Now I'm seriously considering the Vox, just to have something different, but retain the same mounting system. As a side note, I personally feel that Dead Air has the best muzzle brake design in the industry, in addition to the solid mounting system. |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 6:17:24 PM EDT
[#3]
I would think the Rugged Micro 30 would be the closest to a modular length Omega.
I'd like to hear this shot and metered against the Omega, TBAC Ultra 7, Rugged Micro 30, Chimera and TBAC 556 Takedown. Back pressure and cold bore point of impact shift would be worth knowing. Unless you're running abusively short barrels or belt fed, the extra strength of this suppressor is a nice psychological insurance policy but secondary to sound and long term support. People aren't routinely blowing up Omegas or other welded 17-4 core cans, so the safety margin on existing designs is adequate. Given the strength advantages of the material, this suppressor theoretically could have been made much lighter to compete with Thunderbeast. I suspect welding and turning processes limit how thin a tubeless design can be fabricated. For hard use I'm not convinced the light weight has much operational merit. A lighter can will reach higher temperatures faster, and the host has a good chance of being the limiting factor anyway. The mount and the nitride finish are very good touches and the price is very competitive. I'll probably consider one in a year or two when the user base gets big enough for appraisals that are both deep and wide. By then their processes should be optimized even more and the price should come down even further. |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 7:40:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You had me until "loose"  |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 7:48:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I don't understand is why Energetic is getting bashed by some for using Dead Air's Keymo. I mean, it's the best mount in the industry, period. I'm sure they're paying royalties or whatever so it's not like they're "ripping them off." Besides, it's about time we get some kind of industry standard with regard to QD mounts. Many manufacturer's centerfire pistol suppressors now accept SiCo pistons.....again, smart. Same thing. Does anyone remember when every cell phone had a different charging port? That was stupid. Now there are basically two. We need this in the industry. |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 7:56:03 PM EDT
[#6]
POI & other testing is ongoing bth by us and 3rd party evaluators. Data will be published as it becomes available.
Side note: KalmanPhilter is an awesome username BTW. As one EE to (likely) another... linear quadratic estimation is cool stuff! In a previous life I designed the electronics for what became the QinetiQ TALON EOD robot back in 1999 when I worked for Foster-Miller. We were doing some cool DARPA funded stuff on the Tactial Mobile Robot (TMR) program. Good times! |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 8:40:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just an FYI but Sig doesn't recommend barrel shorter than 16" with the ti model |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 9:13:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Anyone know if dead air will ever make a smaller and lighter compensator. I always hear how good their system is, and after playing with it a few times it is nice, but their mounts are long and heavy.
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Posted: 5/18/2018 10:47:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What makes the Keymo so good? Honest question, I've never seen one. I only have direct thread suppressors.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJwtKVV5--I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRPHeRF3ajoc'mon please, a simple taper mount does the same simple job far simpler, never seen a complaint other than how boringly reliable ops inc or allen engineering is. Sig "improved" taper mount with a latch just in case, surefire has a very good mount system, yhm - never seen a complaint, gemtech has the bilock; never seen a complaint, aac works very well if you arent a fucking moron. Also, I hear a clicky noises when tightening the dead air can down, eventually those teeth will wear out. to be fair, it looks good and at least its not a total copy, but its not such a vast an improvement that to choose anything else would ruin every range day for the rest of your life. The thing about suppressors is that they are so boringly simple that any mundane feature can be hyped into a technological singularity. Its fucking wierd actually, your dont see this phenomena in any of the other tech forums. |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 10:51:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From my experience/observation after a couple years of ownership this: - Rock solid lockup. No worries with shooting loose. And from what I can tell I just don't think the ratchet system will wear out. - YET it will not get stuck even after long strings of fire. Basically if you can handle it, you can remove it. - Repeatability - I have yet to have to re zero any rifles once zeroed with the can in place. - Zero leakage between the can and mounting interface. No carbon or anything can build up on the mounting surface - Easy, one handed operation. I don't use a can under a hand guard but for guys who do it's nice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What makes the Keymo so good? Honest question, I've never seen one. I only have direct thread suppressors. - Rock solid lockup. No worries with shooting loose. And from what I can tell I just don't think the ratchet system will wear out. - YET it will not get stuck even after long strings of fire. Basically if you can handle it, you can remove it. - Repeatability - I have yet to have to re zero any rifles once zeroed with the can in place. - Zero leakage between the can and mounting interface. No carbon or anything can build up on the mounting surface - Easy, one handed operation. I don't use a can under a hand guard but for guys who do it's nice. |
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Posted: 5/18/2018 11:02:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OMG....never been done before!!!! c'mon please, a simple taper mount does the same simple job far simpler, never seen a complaint other than how boringly reliable ops inc or allen engineering is. Sig "improved" taper mount with a latch just in case, surefire has a very good mount system, yhm - never seen a complaint, gemtech has the bilock; never seen a complaint, aac works very well if you arent a fucking moron. Also, I hear a clicky noises when tightening the dead air can down, eventually those teeth will wear out. to be fair, it looks good and at least its not a total copy, but its not such a vast an improvement that to choose anything else would ruin every range day for the rest of your life. The thing about suppressors is that they are so boringly simple that any mundane feature can be hyped into a technological singularity. Its fucking wierd actually, your dont see this phenomena in any of the other tech forums. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 12:46:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But they’re fine so long as you don’t go below 11.5” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Just an FYI but Sig doesn't recommend barrel shorter than 16" with the ti model |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:48:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well mine is on a 10.5" so... |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 3:03:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We run a 10.5" on our 5.56 MG with the Vox. Vox has no barrel length restrictions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well mine is on a 10.5" so... |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 3:42:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Any plans on making a dedicated 5.56 Vox?
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Posted: 5/19/2018 4:02:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any plans on making a dedicated 5.56 Vox? |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 8:47:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not in the immediate future. The 7.62 Vox works really well with 5.56. Might do some 5.56 aperture nose caps at some point. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 9:26:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how many different cans do you own? never had any of those problems with 4 different makes. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 9:53:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd still love to see these Vox cans metered at the shooter's ear on an AR vs. other popular cans mentioned ITT like the Omega and Sig. At the shooter's right ear data is far more relevant and tells us a lot more about the design of the can.
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Posted: 5/22/2018 12:33:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be frank, I have neither the time nor the desire to list every manufacturer and their QD issues. It is all WELL documented at this point. Also, judging by a previous post of yours, you will hate on such a response just to ignite a debate regardless of factual evidence brought to the table regarding DA's mount and the flaws/aggravations that exist with other manufacturers. While such issues with other brands do not plague everyone, they do exist. The best way I can sum up a Dear Air's mount is that you get all the benefits of a direct thread with a taper and the benefit of QD and it works. Also, I am not affiliated with any manufacturer. That is all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: how many different cans do you own? never had any of those problems with 4 different makes. My advice to anyone, wait till something you want goes on clearance sale, paying full price for any of them is for suckers |
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Posted: 5/22/2018 10:16:14 PM EDT
[#21]
I tend to agree, and early adopters usually pay for the privilege. In the case of the VOX though, my sense is the current price won't be bested for quite a while. I bet the Sandman K goes up in price before the VOX goes down in price. I hope I'm wrong.
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Posted: 5/22/2018 11:46:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tend to agree, and early adopters usually pay for the privilege. In the case of the VOX though, my sense is the current price won't be bested for quite a while. I bet the Sandman K goes up in price before the VOX goes down in price. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 5/23/2018 5:22:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tend to agree, and early adopters usually pay for the privilege. In the case of the VOX though, my sense is the current price won't be bested for quite a while. I bet the Sandman K goes up in price before the VOX goes down in price. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 5/23/2018 5:26:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only reason I'm holding out is for the potential of a modular version in the future. 
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Posted: 5/23/2018 10:28:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From my experience/observation after a couple years of ownership this: - Rock solid lockup. No worries with shooting loose. And from what I can tell I just don't think the ratchet system will wear out. - YET it will not get stuck even after long strings of fire. Basically if you can handle it, you can remove it. - Repeatability - I have yet to have to re zero any rifles once zeroed with the can in place. - Zero leakage between the can and mounting interface. No carbon or anything can build up on the mounting surface - Easy, one handed operation. I don't use a can under a hand guard but for guys who do it's nice. Had to use two people to wrench it off. A strap wrench would probably have broken it loose easily.
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Posted: 5/25/2018 1:02:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh...that’ll be my excuse to buy another host and the new can Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The only reason I'm holding out is for the potential of a modular version in the future. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:56:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of my rifle & pistol cans are mod length. Just a preference, but I'd like to maintain the trend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: The only reason I'm holding out is for the potential of a modular version in the future. On the other hand, I understand. Money is money...which I don’t have a ton of to just drop on a new host and can. I would have to wait and save. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 11:05:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of my rifle & pistol cans are mod length. Just a preference, but I'd like to maintain the trend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: The only reason I'm holding out is for the potential of a modular version in the future. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 11:17:59 AM EDT
[#29]
In my experience modularity in length is a selling feature for people who aren't sure what they want, or just like options. Most people tend to settle on a length for 80-90% of the time once they realize changing length inside a range session gets tedious if their one do-all can gets warm.
Modularity in mounts and to a lesser extent front caps is a very useful feature unless you are flush enough to dedicate cans to hosts. The VOX picked a well supported back-end thread pitch so they will gain customers on that alone. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 11:32:08 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just cutting through the marketing and bandwagon bs My advice to anyone, wait till something you want goes on clearance sale, paying full price for any of them is for suckers |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 11:38:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've gotten the Keymo mount stuck. Had to use two people to wrench it off. A strap wrench would probably have broken it loose easily.
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Posted: 5/25/2018 2:53:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pricing sometimes boils down to your relationship with your dealer. I paid $750 + stamp for my S not long after they first released, mine is below the 1,000 SN mark. And yes, he still made a profit. Prices I see from some of these dealers make me shake my head. Two for $1375. No idea the S/n but It was Dec 2015 |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 12:41:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How often do you utilize the modular length feature? |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 12:48:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Delete
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Posted: 5/26/2018 11:40:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Hansohn Brothers,
It's nice to see you are putting your meter to work, but several people here have asked about measuring at the ear and I haven't seen you respond. Many of us only care about that measurement and I personally couldn't care less about the muzzle measurement. Are you going to start including that in future testing? |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 11:53:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hansohn Brothers, It's nice to see you are putting your meter to work, but several people here have asked about measuring at the ear and I haven't seen you respond. Many of us only care about that measurement and I personally couldn't care less about the muzzle measurement. Are you going to start including that in future testing? |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 2:55:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, we will start metering at the ear. Will probably have videos up in August. If you want just numbers, I can probably crank out simple iPhone videos in the next few weeks. None of the cans tested will be hearing safe at the ear on 5.56mm though. |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 6:26:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hansohn Brothers, It's nice to see you are putting your meter to work, but several people here have asked about measuring at the ear and I haven't seen you respond. Many of us only care about that measurement and I personally couldn't care less about the muzzle measurement. Are you going to start including that in future testing? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hansohn Brothers, It's nice to see you are putting your meter to work, but several people here have asked about measuring at the ear and I haven't seen you respond. Many of us only care about that measurement and I personally couldn't care less about the muzzle measurement. Are you going to start including that in future testing? Quoted:
Quoted:
And just yet another reason why we need more at the ear data! |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 8:30:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OMG....never been done before!!!! c'mon please, a simple taper mount does the same simple job far simpler, never seen a complaint other than how boringly reliable ops inc or allen engineering is. Sig "improved" taper mount with a latch just in case, surefire has a very good mount system, yhm - never seen a complaint, gemtech has the bilock; never seen a complaint, aac works very well if you arent a fucking moron. Also, I hear a clicky noises when tightening the dead air can down, eventually those teeth will wear out. to be fair, it looks good and at least its not a total copy, but its not such a vast an improvement that to choose anything else would ruin every range day for the rest of your life. The thing about suppressors is that they are so boringly simple that any mundane feature can be hyped into a technological singularity. Its fucking wierd actually, your dont see this phenomena in any of the other tech forums. 
I agree with you mostly (especially on tapers) but will have to disagree on a few points. Surefire's mount system straight up sucks. I won't sell their cans because they get stuck on the gun and "unlock the mount and shoot it off the gun" is not an acceptable solution in my book. The Dead Air Keymo IS a taper mount. When you put the can on the gun the collar locks into the brake and stops turning then as you continue to twist the can the collar threads further onto the mount housing. The clicky noises you are hearing are a bearing plate that is pressed into the collar by the visible wave springs with four rounded "teeth" on it that engage the collar. You really need to handle one and take it apart. They are elegant in their design. If anything needs servicing or inspection it is easily done by the end user. I've played with every mount around and I've never seen one close to this. If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. Again, not to say there aren't other good mounts out there, but I install and remove cans constantly all day and the Keymo is on an entirely different playing field than everything else. I encourage you to spend some time putting Keymo equipped cans off and on guns and you will fall in love. Coincidentally, I have a tech post to make regarding installation quirks on the Keymo on Gen I Omegas. I'll try and do that shortly. P.S. I like your sig---when I joined here Chris Hansohn's only advice to me was to stay out of GD. HAHA!!! Any other advice for surviving arfcom is greatly appreciated as I am new to this forum. |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 9:41:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Karl (or anyone else who knows the answer), I saw you mention that if you have any issues with an Energetic Arms suppressor to send it back as you have a lifetime warranty. However, your web site seems to show differently, as the warranty on the site states:
"Energetic Armament, LLC (EA) warrants the silencer was manufactured free of defects in material or workmanship. Determination and remedy of such defect is at the sole discretion and determination of EA. Please contact EA for warranty support prior to returning the silencer to obtain an RMA number and ensure compliance with BATF regulations. No other warranties are implied. EA makes no warranty of merchantability or fitness of purpose." As a guy who reads contracts and warranties for a living, I am not seeing a warranty of the caliber (no pun intended) of Rugged, Silencerco, Q, etc. Is there a separate warranty stated elsewhere that ships with the Vox or Nyx? Just curious as warranting that a silencer was manufactured free of defects is not the same as what you put in your post that: "If anything ever gets bunged up in the process, no worries,just send it back to us and we will take care of it." Thanks for any clarification that can be provided! |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 5:57:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm guessing the Magnuson-Moss Act has something to do with it. I know there are other firearm manufacturers that take the same stance of not having a "written" warranty, but will still fix any warranty issues you might have without question.
That being said, it certainly would be more comforting to have a written lifetime warranty... |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 8:45:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, I'm back with a dealer account.
I agree with you mostly (especially on tapers) but will have to disagree on a few points. Surefire's mount system straight up sucks. I won't sell their cans because they get stuck on the gun and "unlock the mount and shoot it off the gun" is not an acceptable solution in my book. The Dead Air Keymo IS a taper mount. When you put the can on the gun the collar locks into the brake and stops turning then as you continue to twist the can the collar threads further onto the mount housing. The clicky noises you are hearing are a bearing plate that is pressed into the collar by the visible wave springs with four rounded "teeth" on it that engage the collar. You really need to handle one and take it apart. They are elegant in their design. If anything needs servicing or inspection it is easily done by the end user. I've played with every mount around and I've never seen one close to this. If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. Again, not to say there aren't other good mounts out there, but I install and remove cans constantly all day and the Keymo is on an entirely different playing field than everything else. I encourage you to spend some time putting Keymo equipped cans off and on guns and you will fall in love. Coincidentally, I have a tech post to make regarding installation quirks on the Keymo on Gen I Omegas. I'll try and do that shortly. P.S. I like your sig---when I joined here Chris Hansohn's only advice to me was to stay out of GD. HAHA!!! Any other advice for surviving arfcom is greatly appreciated as I am new to this forum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: OMG....never been done before!!!! c'mon please, a simple taper mount does the same simple job far simpler, never seen a complaint other than how boringly reliable ops inc or allen engineering is. Sig "improved" taper mount with a latch just in case, surefire has a very good mount system, yhm - never seen a complaint, gemtech has the bilock; never seen a complaint, aac works very well if you arent a fucking moron. Also, I hear a clicky noises when tightening the dead air can down, eventually those teeth will wear out. to be fair, it looks good and at least its not a total copy, but its not such a vast an improvement that to choose anything else would ruin every range day for the rest of your life. The thing about suppressors is that they are so boringly simple that any mundane feature can be hyped into a technological singularity. Its fucking wierd actually, your dont see this phenomena in any of the other tech forums.
I agree with you mostly (especially on tapers) but will have to disagree on a few points. Surefire's mount system straight up sucks. I won't sell their cans because they get stuck on the gun and "unlock the mount and shoot it off the gun" is not an acceptable solution in my book. The Dead Air Keymo IS a taper mount. When you put the can on the gun the collar locks into the brake and stops turning then as you continue to twist the can the collar threads further onto the mount housing. The clicky noises you are hearing are a bearing plate that is pressed into the collar by the visible wave springs with four rounded "teeth" on it that engage the collar. You really need to handle one and take it apart. They are elegant in their design. If anything needs servicing or inspection it is easily done by the end user. I've played with every mount around and I've never seen one close to this. If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. Again, not to say there aren't other good mounts out there, but I install and remove cans constantly all day and the Keymo is on an entirely different playing field than everything else. I encourage you to spend some time putting Keymo equipped cans off and on guns and you will fall in love. Coincidentally, I have a tech post to make regarding installation quirks on the Keymo on Gen I Omegas. I'll try and do that shortly. P.S. I like your sig---when I joined here Chris Hansohn's only advice to me was to stay out of GD. HAHA!!! Any other advice for surviving arfcom is greatly appreciated as I am new to this forum. Why exactly do you not like the idea? |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 8:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Maybe, but I am not an expert on Magnuson-Moss and understood it to just require written warranty. However, in looking a little further, only Rugged, Silencerco and Q really have good written warranty, and Dead Air and YHM written warranties read like EA.
Rugged excerpt: If for any reason you have an issue with a Rugged Suppressors product, we will repair or replace it free of charge. Period. Even if you drop it from a mountain. That’s why it’s called an Unconditional Lifetime Warranty and that’s why there’s no small legal type needed. Q excerpt: Listen, shit happens. Luckily, we warranty anything but stupid. So don't worry. We'll take care of you! Silencerco excerpt: We proudly stand behind the quality of our silencers and offer a lifetime warranty, no matter what – even if it’s not a product defect. So, like you said, perhaps in practice is different than in writing. |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 7:25:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. . |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 9:24:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. 
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Posted: 5/31/2018 9:58:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Damn - I was excited to read about this - but needed to order ASAP to at least hopefully make my November/December hunts and the unknown availability dates scared me off. I had to go with a Sandman S. I know I won't be disappointed with the Sandman, but still bummed I'll have to wait until I get more discretionary NFA funds for a Vox
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Posted: 6/2/2018 5:24:29 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you can name one other taper mount that can be install/removed one handed in seconds with a secondary (and tertiary for that matter, the "hood latch" on the collar) locking system under any rail that the can will fit on, then it is something I haven't seen. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 6:25:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would anyone want to run a rifle silencer under a HG? Keep your local burn unit contact info handy. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:18:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Forgive my lack of knowledge but what about running a can under a handguard would cause them to blow up?
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:33:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive my lack of knowledge but what about running a can under a handguard would cause them to blow up? |
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