User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:03:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Just my opinion but I think Sig has one of, if nitvtye next mounts out there.
However the Vox now has my interest as I need on final can. I was going to be cheap and buy a yhm turbo but this looks o be worth the money. As far as Griffin. Must suck seeing a new product come out that’s going to kick the fuck out of yours and all you can do about it is talk shit on a forum. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 5:19:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Page 5 of 5 I have a reputation in the industry as being painfully, brutally honest. I'm a former narc who is now an attorney so it would be fair to say I am a doctorate level asshole but one who prides himself on being fair and equitable. As I said earlier I've never carried Griffin cans in my store for a variety of reasons. However, on June 1 we will be launching our e-commerce site and selling suppressors, accessories, and host weapons online. We will be expanding our lines to carry suppressor brands we do have not previously carried in store. Until I read Evan's post in this thread, Griffin was among those brands-I deleted all of their products from the under construction website as soon as I read it. I am not going to address the inaccurate information posted by Evan. I will leave that to Karl from EA who will be along as soon as his account is approved (for some reason it is under review, if a mod could check I think having Karl post would be in the interest of the entire community). I will say that it has been my experience that the suppressor industry has some of the most wonderful and gracious people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. From the manufacturers, Eric, Mike, Gary, and Rod at Dead Air; Michael and all the guys from Rugged; Derek formerly of Gemtech; Karl at Energetic Armament; to my fellow dealers, Chris at Hansohn Brothers; Torrey, Rhiannon, and Jorge at Capitol; Jake at Quiet Riot; Joseph at JoeBobOutfitters; and Randall and Brandon at Allen Arms, the leading suppressor distributor in the country, you cannot find a finer group and I cannot imagine any of them posting what Evan has here today. My apologies for this incredibly long first post. I encourage everyone here to go handle an Energetic Arms Vox for themselves when they hit dealers and draw their own conclusions. While it may not be everyone's preferred can the quality and incredible design cannot be denied. Best, Kenny Meplat Group |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 5:43:14 AM EDT
[#3]
@MeplatGroup
Very well said. It's nice to hear the back story behind all this, especially regarding EA's manufacturing capabilities and engineering expertise. It's always hard to trust a new player in any market, especially when we see companies like Huntertown Arms come and go, or see the inferior product quality from companies like Rebel Silencers. I have been very impressed with the professionalism that many in the industry have shown here on these forums, especially from people like Mageever & Atlmike. Always professional, never disparaging, and a good example of how one should conduct themselves in an open forum amongst their competitors. It's always heartwarming to see some of the compliments that these gentlemen give their competitors on occasion, treating them as friends rather than as enemies. Compare that to the recent post by Green0, which is a textbook example of foot-in-mouth disease, and a good lesson in how not to conduct oneself in a public forum. I have no problem with honest constructive criticism of a product, especially in regards to things like design, performance, versatility, and longevity. I do have a problem with a competitor trying to vilify a company or a product in a vain attempt to paint themselves in a more favorable light. If you want to sell me your product, please do so based on the merits of your product, and what sets it apart from the competition. Show me that your product is better, not that your competitor's product is worse. If your sole marketing strategy is based on trying to discredit your competition, insinuate that they will soon be out of business, or tear them down in general, you have already lost my business. It's a lot like politics. Don't spend your time trying to tell me how horrible your opponent is, and why I shouldn't vote for them. Instead, show me the good things about yourself, and why I should vote for you. Let your actions speak for themselves, and know that your opponent will be also judged by theirs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 8:03:16 AM EDT
[#4]
I've got a Keymo adapter I'm not using and I'm set up with Dead Air brakes and flash hiders.
I'm in for a direct thread model. It looks like a really slick can. And Griffin's behavior in this thread helped sell this can for me, and in the future, any cans other than Griffin. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 8:51:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Very cool to see this thread get back on track. I think every new company wanting to get into the NFA market should have their fair chance and I hope for these guys that its successful for them. Good Luck EA. The Griffin product line never appealed to me and now after seeing "Evans" temper tantrum in this thread doubtful they ever will be. I guess he's never heard of the reason why some folks myself included won't touch a Troy product? People remember this type of shit in the future. Everyone outside of the gun circles wants to attack the 2A and everything related to it. Amongst ourselves we all need to support each other and stand united. Not attack each other. Plenty of folks on the outside willing to do that. Anyway. No more bashing in this thread please. I'll shut up now.
I wonder if Silencer Shop is going to pickup the EA line? I might give them a shout and see if they are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:13:40 AM EDT
[#6]
@MeplatGroup
Welcome to the forum on a less than desirable circumstance. I look forward to hearing from Karl and EA as they enter the market. As a side note-I've had my eye on the Nyx titanium rimfire can but I'd like to see a shielded baffle design. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:19:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Several Griffin cans and mounts share many design cues and features with KAC cans, and KAC was around long before Griffin so you can do the math on that. There's also the thing where Griffin threatened to sue some guy who called them out about that... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can appreciate a company willing to roll the dice on some innovation versus ripping off something down the hall at SHOT. There's also the thing where Griffin threatened to sue some guy who called them out about that... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:29:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.imgur.com/ggXFJDh.png My apologies to Hansohn and EA should they step in the thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:31:13 AM EDT
[#9]
To add to what Kenny has said, let me provide some more background on Energetic Armament, specifically the people involved and their qualifications.
Karl contacted me last year wanting my opinion of a silencer he and his friends made. With my expectations low, I said "sure, send it on." When the Nyx arrived I noted the FFL type: 10, Manufacturer of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition. Interesting, you don't see that often. I liked the silencer and it performed much better than I expected, on par with the current top silencers. In the fall of 2017, Karl contacted me and said he would be in Virginia and asked if we could meet. We did and I think we spent the better part of 2 or 3 hours talking about the industry and engineering. He impressed me; I ordered more of his product and mentioned he should contact Kenny at Meplat Group in Louisiana. Karl comes from a background in military hardware design. His work involved the electromechanical design of miniature military robotic systems for advanced technology demonstrations. This design work included drive and control electronics, battery systems and payload systems. Karl is a member of the Society of Petroleum Engineers (SPE) and a member of the International Society of Explosive Engineers (ISEE). Karl earned his B.S. degree in Electromechanical Engineering. Steve is a mechanical engineer specializing in manufacturing process optimization and systems design. He comes from a background in pharmaceutical manufacturing process design. His design work in that field focused on advanced diagnostics of fluidic and mechanical systems for process optimization. Steve is an SME Certified Manufacturing Technologist. He is also a member of The Society of Manufacturing Engineers (SME) and The American Society for Quality (ASQ). Steve earned his B.S. degree in Manufacturing Engineering. Andrew is an electrical engineer with a background in electrical construction, consulting and electronic board level design. Andrew earned his B.S. degree in Electromechanical Engineering. These aren't just a couple of guys with some threaded pipe, fender washers and a dream (not that there's anything wrong with that). They aren't a fly by night operation; they are engineers with legitimate passion for the product they are creating. They specialize in materials and manufacturing efficiency. This is how they are able to use C300, by maximizing their manufacturing process efficiencies to offset the cost of material. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:40:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To add to what Kenny has said, let me provide some more background on Energetic Armament, specifically the people involved and their qualifications. Karl contacted me last year wanting my opinion of a silencer he and his friends made. With my expectations low, I said "sure, send it on." When the Nyx arrived I noted the FFL type: 10, Manufacturer of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition. Interesting, you don't see that often. I liked the silencer and it performed much better than I expected, on par with the current top silencers. In the fall of 2017, Karl contacted me and said he would be in Virginia and asked if we could meet. We did and I think we spent the better part of 2 or 3 hours talking about the industry and engineering. He impressed me; I ordered more of his product and mentioned he should contact Kenny at Meplat Group in Louisiana. Karl comes from a background in military hardware design. His work involved the electromechanical design of miniature military robotic systems for advanced technology demonstrations. This design work included drive and control electronics, battery systems and payload systems. Karl is a member of the Society of Petroleum Engineers (SPE) and a member of the International Society of Explosive Engineers (ISEE). Karl earned his B.S. degree in Electromechanical Engineering. Steve is a mechanical engineer specializing in manufacturing process optimization and systems design. He comes from a background in pharmaceutical manufacturing process design. His design work in that field focused on advanced diagnostics of fluidic and mechanical systems for process optimization. Steve is an SME Certified Manufacturing Technologist. He is also a member of The Society of Manufacturing Engineers (SME) and The American Society for Quality (ASQ). Steve earned his B.S. degree in Manufacturing Engineering. Andrew is an electrical engineer with a background in electrical construction, consulting and electronic board level design. Andrew earned his B.S. degree in Electromechanical Engineering. These aren't just a couple of guys with some threaded pipe, fender washers and a dream (not that there's anything wrong with that). They aren't a fly by night operation; they are engineers with legitimate passion for the product they are creating. They specialize in materials and manufacturing efficiency. This is how they are able to use C300, by maximizing their manufacturing process efficiencies to offset the cost of material. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:43:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very cool to see this thread get back on track. I think every new company wanting to get into the NFA market should have their fair chance and I hope for these guys that its successful for them. Good Luck EA. The Griffin product line never appealed to me and now after seeing "Evans" temper tantrum in this thread doubtful they ever will be. I guess he's never heard of the reason why some folks myself included won't touch a Troy product? People remember this type of shit in the future. Everyone outside of the gun circles wants to attack the 2A and everything related to it. Amongst ourselves we all need to support each other and stand united. Not attack each other. Plenty of folks on the outside willing to do that. Anyway. No more bashing in this thread please. I'll shut up now. I wonder if Silencer Shop is going to pickup the EA line? I might give them a shout and see if they are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:54:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Thank you for all the additional information. I'm almost certain I'll be getting a Vox now.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 10:08:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if Silencer Shop is going to pickup the EA line? I might give them a shout and see if they are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 10:09:30 AM EDT
[#14]
this literally happens every couple of years with greeno coming on here and chucking a terd in the punch bowl. I feel like the only reason that GA got as big as it did was because Silencershop quit carrying silencerco for a couple years.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 10:25:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this literally happens every couple of years with greeno coming on here and chucking a terd in the punch bowl. I feel like the only reason that GA got as big as it did was because Silencershop quit carrying silencerco for a couple years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 10:58:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Greetings all! This is Karl Edminster and I, along with Steve Piche and Andrew DeMedeiros founded Energetic Armament LLC. It seems like our silencers, particularly our VoxTM centerfire has made quite an impression on the industry since we released it last week at the NRA show.
I have a lot to cover so bear with me over the next few posts! Please feel free to jump in with any questions, So who the heck are you guys and how did we get here? I am an engineer and hold a BS Electromechanical Engineering from Wentworth Institute of Technology in Boston, MA. I founded an engineering company, Electromechanica, Inc., in 2001 while working for a DoD contractor (now part of Lockheed) designing antenna systems for submarines. Loved the engineering but hated working for a big corp (and all the BS bureaucracy) so I set out on my own. Steve (BS Manufacturing Engineering) joined me in 2003 and we continued to grow the business specializing in turnkey electromechanical designs, robotics, test systems and government contracting. Andrew (BS Electromechanical Engineering) joined in 2008 as we continued to grow. In 2010 we had outgrown our humble beginnings and moved to our present location in Mattapoisett, MA. Within 2 years of the move we bought the building and expanded to our present 10ksf facility. We were awarded contracts with the US Naval Research Laboratory to support advanced R&D initiatives in robotic inspection tools. To support the growing engineering business we made forward looking investments and developed a full in-house CNC machining capability to be more vertically integrated in supporting our clients. Additionally we received ATF licenses to support our expanding DoD R&D work and currently hold a Type 20 FEL (Mfg. of HE) and Type 10 FFL (DD's). |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 10:59:00 AM EDT
[#17]
I believe in a previous post we were referred to as a 'job shop' but I think you will see that may be a bit of a mischaracterization. We have a solid 17 year history, staff of leading engineers and an extensive client list that includes the DoD, prime contractors & commercial clients. We have been awarded several patents.
With our engineering & manufacturing capabilities, and the Type 10 FFL, we developed our first silencers. One thing let to another and we saw a business opportunity so Energetic Armament LLC was founded as a separate business in early 2017 to expand and commercialize the R&D work started at EMI. EA LLC has grown rapidly and sustainably since the introduction of the NyxTM line of rimfire silencers in August 2017. We established an exclusive distribution agreement with Allen Arms Tactical in January 2018 which has given us further visibility and expansion into the market. We have a core philosophy of innovation and engineering the best possible products. even more important is our commitment to client service at all levels from our distribution partner, to our dealer network and to our shooters. We stand 100% behind our clients and the silencers we make and offer a lifetime warranty on our products. We recognize that customer service is the key to the continued success and growth of Energetic Arms. Next post- Material Science! Let our engineering geek shine... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:02:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allen Arms Tactical is the exclusive distributor for Energetic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:05:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe in a previous post we were referred to as a 'job shop' but I think you will see that may be a bit of a mischaracterization. We have a solid 17 year history, staff of leading engineers and an extensive client list that includes the DoD, prime contractors & commercial clients. We have been awarded several patents. With our engineering & manufacturing capabilities, and the Type 10 FFL, we developed our first silencers. One thing let to another and we saw a business opportunity so Energetic Armament LLC was founded as a separate business in early 2017 to expand and commercialize the R&D work started at EMI. EA LLC has grown rapidly and sustainably since the introduction of the NyxTM line of rimfire silencers in August 2017. We established an exclusive distribution agreement with Allen Arms Tactical in January 2018 which has given us further visibility and expansion into the market. We have a core philosophy of innovation and engineering the best possible products. even more important is our commitment to client service at all levels from our distribution partner, to our dealer network and to our shooters. We stand 100% behind our clients and the silencers we make and offer a lifetime warranty on our products. We recognize that customer service is the key to the continued success and growth of Energetic Arms. Next post- Material Science! Let our engineering geek shine... Looking forward to the material talk. I deal with a bunch of different materials in a different biz/industry and I really enjoy nerding out on the material nuances. On the Nyx can you elaborate on a cleaning regiment? I'd like to have a full Ti rimfire can but I've become a big fan of the shielded rimfire baffles that isolate crud from the main tube. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:10:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that will eliminate 75% of their potential sales. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Allen Arms Tactical is the exclusive distributor for Energetic. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:10:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that will eliminate 75% of their potential sales. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Allen Arms Tactical is the exclusive distributor for Energetic. Enlighten the ignorant please sir |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:44:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Ok, there were some questions about our material selection for the Vox and how that compares to some of the more conventional materials used in silencer manufacturing. Disruptive technologies can be a bit intimidating but it doesn't need to be... unless you are the disrupted technology!
Let's start with standards because that is how engineering works. The data shown in the above graph is taken from Metallic Materials Properties Development and Standardization (MMPDS) which is the US Federal standard for metallic materials properties. This standard is used for DoD (Formerly Mil-Handbook-5), FAA and NASA for flight critical design and procurement. This represents statistically validated materials properties for Aerospace Materials Standards (AMS). Data shown for C300 Maraging Steel is per AMS 6514 (bar) and for 17-4PH Stainless is per AMS 5643 (bar) Here is a link if you would like to read through all 1700+ pages of the MMPDS Here is an updated chart on our site where I added H900 as per a previous poster's concerns. The concerned poster had linked to a vendors data sheet and you can see that the values shown on that sheet do not align to the statistically validated and industry accepted values shown in the MMPDS standard. Good engineering practice always uses validated standards. For 17-4PH Stainless (ASM 6514) refer to table 2.6.9.0(e) (Pg. 2-199) for both the H900 and H1150 condition For H900 please refer to chart 2.6.9.2.1 (Pg. 2-207) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature For H1150 please refer to chart 2.6.9.6.1 (Pg. 2-212) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature For C300 Maraging (ASM 6514) refer to table 2.5.1.0(c) (Pg. 2-95) Please refer to chart 2.5.1.1.1 (Pg. 2-97) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:49:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, there were some questions about our material selection for the Vox and how that compares to some of the more conventional materials used in silencer manufacturing. Disruptive technologies can be a bit intimidating but it doesn't need to be... unless you are the disrupted technology! Let's start with standards because that is how engineering works. The data shown in the above graph is taken from Metallic Materials Properties Development and Standardization (MMPDS) which is the US Federal standard for metallic materials properties. This standard is used for DoD (Formerly Mil-Handbook-5), FAA and NASA for flight critical design and procurement. This represents statistically validated materials properties for Aerospace Materials Standards (AMS). Data shown for C300 Maraging Steel is per AMS 6514 (bar) and for 17-4PH Stainless is per AMS 5643 (bar) Here is a link if you would like to read through all 1700+ pages of the MMPDS Here is an updated chart on our site where I added H900 as per a previous poster's concerns. The concerned poster had linked to a vendors data sheet and you can see that the values shown on that sheet do not align to the statistically validated and industry accepted values shown in the MMPDS standard. Good engineering practice always uses validated standards. For 17-4PH Stainless (ASM 6514) refer to table 2.6.9.0(e) (Pg. 2-199) for both the H900 and H1150 condition For H900 please refer to chart 2.6.9.2.1 (Pg. 2-207) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature For H1150 please refer to chart 2.6.9.6.1 (Pg. 2-212) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature For C300 Maraging (ASM 6514) refer to table 2.5.1.0(c) (Pg. 2-95) Please refer to chart 2.5.1.1.1 (Pg. 2-97) for % of tensile strength as a function of temperature Now I remember watching a MAC video starring "a concerned poster" and thinking, "That guy seems miserable. Certainly no salesman..." Looks to be true. We as users welcome you and are excited to see how this goes. I'd be especially interested to see POI shift/repeatability on the VOX as well! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:53:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome @kedminster Looking forward to the material talk. I deal with a bunch of different materials in a different biz/industry and I really enjoy nerding out on the material nuances. On the Nyx can you elaborate on a cleaning regiment? I'd like to have a full Ti rimfire can but I've become a big fan of the shielded rimfire baffles that isolate crud from the main tube. Typically you can remove the ends of the Nyx and push out the baffle stack. If it is really dirty I will throw it in some Hoppes or similar to aid in the removal. A piece of 1/2 CPVC pipe is almost a perfect fit to the ID if you need any help getting the baffles free and the plastic won't damage anything. If anything ever gets bunged up in the process, no worries,just send it back to us and we will take care of it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:54:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dun dun dun Enlighten the ignorant please sir  .
My guess is EA is low volume, and could not provide product for more than 1 distributor at this time, so it is NOP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 11:59:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that will eliminate 75% of their potential sales. Not trying to be the biggest but absolutely want to be the best! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 12:06:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think our distribution with AAT is working really well and scales well with us as we grow. They are very knowledgeable and share our commitment to client service. Having our silencers sold by a distributed network of dealers gets cans in people's hands and that is the best sales tool we have. I also like the better customer service our clients can get from our dealer network. Not trying to be the biggest but absolutely want to be the best! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 12:10:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Limit your sales channels, limit your sales. I know lots of FFLs in my AO that are not setup for sales from AA, but are for SS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 12:16:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you misunderstood, Silencer Shop will have to buy from Allen Arms if they want Energetic products. My point was the products will be less visible by only selling to 1 distributor vs 5. I know several FFLS in my AO who will not be carrying them for example (because they do not buy from AAT), to my benefit. But I imagine they are low volume at this time, so they should still sell out. eta do not want to hijack thread, so I will move on and be happy I am with AAT. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 12:58:51 PM EDT
[#30]
I met up with Energetic Armament at the NRA Show in Dallas last weekend and got to mess with the Vox. I've known Karl and Steve for a good while. We compete in two very different industries and we're still happy to be able to call them friends. They were even nice enough to invite me to dinner with them a couple of times. Great people.
The Vox was great for many reasons. Lightweight, quiet for its size, interchangeable mounting systems, and my personal favorite the optional wiped front cap. It's a very well rounded silencer for its size and weight. I'm most definitely going to be getting one of them for my personal collection in the near future. And for the record, Green0 is Austin, unless they started sharing the same account. Evan did the marketing and Austin did the designing if I remember correctly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:02:29 PM EDT
[#31]
@kedminster, any plans on an "L" version of the VOX?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:06:20 PM EDT
[#32]
I’m very impressed with the Vox after shooting it. I am looking forward to maybe testing it on my precision rifle.
Vox guys, keep on taking the high road, you’re doing good. Griffin, you keep subtracting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:25:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that will eliminate 75% of their potential sales. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:45:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AAT is the largest and most knowledgeable silencer distributor in the country. If your dealer is unwilling to work with the fellows at AAT for their Title 2 items, then your dealer (and their customers) is at a complete loss IMHO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:55:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Firstly. welcome Mr Karl. Glad you were able to hop in here and give your side. A lot of the technical stuff I don't understand but generally speaking it sounds like you and your crew know your away around a machine shop. Maybe the Griffin guy is just jealous your "jobber" shops bigger than his lol. But enough with the negativity. Plenty of that already in this thread.
I like options. I think its good for everyone and nothing wrong with reinventing the wheel. When people are not complacent and just try to rip off someone else's idea everyone wins. Glad to have you in the NFA market and I'd be willing to give your product a roll of the dice based on what I'm hearing so far. Sad to see SS may not be an option but hoping maybe down the road it might be. I'm going to send an email to them and ask about carrying your product. For me I like the model with how they handled everything and made my first suppressor purchase experience a breeze. So I'm being selfish here asking if they would consider carrying your stuff. Sounds like a few folks out there are worried about your chance of sinking some teeth into the NFA market place and perhaps thats a good sign your heading in the right direction. Best of luck with this venture. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 1:57:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Ok, next on the agenda...
So apparently a concerned poster seemed to have his interpretation of the economics figured out here and was sure we were running a 501(c). Sorry, not the case and basically the whole analysis had no actual reference to reality. Please see my previous post about always validating your references... 1. We are running a for-profit LLC; not a non-profit 501(c). I support lots of charities but manufacturing silencers to loose money is not one of them. 2. If you think our materials analysis is on-point, our business planning and financial management game is there as well. 3. Yes, C300 is expensive but not quite as expensive as the concerned posted believes. Please refer to Item 2 above. Next: manufacturing concerns... Note: sorry for the spread posts; this 2k character limit is killing me! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:03:39 PM EDT
[#37]
There were also some manufacturing concerns:
1. We have the machining process optimized. We turn these on a Doosan Lynx220LSY. Bars go in one end; completely finished parts come out the conveyor. Chip break is challenging but manageable and we are getting great insert life. Automate or die... 2. We developed our own CNC orbital welding system. One of the perks of having an engineering company that designs industrial equipment. Automate or die... 3. The concerned poster indicated they use 17-4PH in H900 condition. 17-4 is almost always machined in H1150 as the machinability is significantly less in the annealed or H900 condition. They seemed to be concerned about our productivity machining C300 but may want to turn that concern to introspective about their own processes. 4. Our design is a welded baffle stack where the baffles and walls are machined out of the same piece of C300 bar stock. There is no superfluous outer tube to just add weight and hide shitty welds. You know what comes in tubes? Tampons... 5. We will go on the assumption that other cans are 17-4 in the H900 condition (still not sure about this). If so, using MMPDS the C300 has a 59% higher yield at room temp and at 1,000F. I believe those are real numbers using real validated data. If this was H1150 then it is 170% stronger at RT and 114% at 1,000F. 6. The concerned poster is correct that C300 is not as corrosion resistant as 17-4. For those of you who are not intending to submerge your can in salt water or who can clean and oil after you use then you should be fine. We have a black nitride finish. Finish gets a little lighter when it gets real hot but does not burn up like other coatings. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:04:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Do you do your MFG in MA?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:15:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I met up with Energetic Armament at the NRA Show in Dallas last weekend and got to mess with the Vox. I've known Karl and Steve for a good while. We compete in two very different industries and we're still happy to be able to call them friends. They were even nice enough to invite me to dinner with them a couple of times. Great people. The Vox was great for many reasons. Lightweight, quiet for its size, interchangeable mounting systems, and my personal favorite the optional wiped front cap. It's a very well rounded silencer for its size and weight. I'm most definitely going to be getting one of them for my personal collection in the near future. And for the record, Green0 is Austin, unless they started sharing the same account. Evan did the marketing and Austin did the designing if I remember correctly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:19:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Firstly. welcome Mr Karl. Glad you were able to hop in here and give your side. A lot of the technical stuff I don't understand but generally speaking it sounds like you and your crew know your away around a machine shop. Maybe the Griffin guy is just jealous your "jobber" shops bigger than his lol. But enough with the negativity. Plenty of that already in this thread. I like options. I think its good for everyone and nothing wrong with reinventing the wheel. When people are not complacent and just try to rip off someone else's idea everyone wins. Glad to have you in the NFA market and I'd be willing to give your product a roll of the dice based on what I'm hearing so far. Sad to see SS may not be an option but hoping maybe down the road it might be. I'm going to send an email to them and ask about carrying your product. For me I like the model with how they handled everything and made my first suppressor purchase experience a breeze. So I'm being selfish here asking if they would consider carrying your stuff. Sounds like a few folks out there are worried about your chance of sinking some teeth into the NFA market place and perhaps thats a good sign your heading in the right direction. Best of luck with this venture. There are plenty of great dealers that can give you even better turnkey service than SS and make the process just as simple. We work with some great folks that live and breath client relationships and concierge service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:21:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you do your MFG in MA? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 2:22:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love this place  I missed this stuff from school when transitioning to the adult world. Then I found AR15.com. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 3:01:34 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm going to have to lock this one up for now.
@MeplatGroup @kedminster Please contact [email protected] to set up a dealer account. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 3:02:12 PM EDT
[#44]
See above.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 5:14:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Technical discussion continuing. No sales pitch.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 7:06:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very cool to see this thread get back on track. I think every new company wanting to get into the NFA market should have their fair chance and I hope for these guys that its successful for them. Good Luck EA. The Griffin product line never appealed to me and now after seeing "Evans" temper tantrum in this thread doubtful they ever will be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very cool to see this thread get back on track. I think every new company wanting to get into the NFA market should have their fair chance and I hope for these guys that its successful for them. Good Luck EA. The Griffin product line never appealed to me and now after seeing "Evans" temper tantrum in this thread doubtful they ever will be. I wonder if Silencer Shop is going to pickup the EA line? I might give them a shout and see if they are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 7:45:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not worth the big reaction it got, IMO |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 7:52:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Would corrosive milsurp ammo be a no-go through the VOX?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 8:14:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would corrosive milsurp ammo be a no-go through the VOX? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2018 9:05:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't shoot corrosive through any suppressor, except maybe one that was fully serviceable... even then it would be a last resort type thing for me... |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
