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Posted: 12/24/2018 11:18:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:snip...
Eta: not sure what the part in red is supposed to mean. What does "completely erodes" mean"? I'm guessing this isn't even a legitimate concern based on the thought process of service life and "you spent $10k on ammo, buy a new $600 can". Which I generally agree with that sentiment. Surely someone around here has shot a suppressor out, along with a barrel or 2 along the way. At what point did they call it quits and decide the can is done and rebuild the baffle stack or have to destroy the item? What criteria did they use to determine it was at the end of its service life? What I'm asking is how do you know it's worn out? E.g. so far with my M4SD, it has about 2,500 rounds through it (99% SA, 200rds FA) . It appears to have zero erosion, but a good bit of junk caked on the inside. I can knock the junk off by gently scraping with a tool. A lot of it is soluble with CLP or motor oil. Even then, the layer of crud is nothing. It still sounds great. Obviously this can is still good to go and has thousands of rounds left in its service life. Maybe @green0 can chime in and divulge the expected round count? Or how eroded the baffles can get before they'd no longer consider it safe to shoot? |
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Posted: 12/24/2018 11:20:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ConcernedCitizen:
I would worry about uneven erosion possibly upsetting the bullet due to turbulence, which might eventually affect accuracy or lead to a baffle strike. I think you would need to severely erode more than one baffle before you notice a significant change in performance, but I am not an expert by any means. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2018 12:48:16 PM EDT
[#3]
That or a change in POI shift, but just as with a can 'filling up' and eventually getting louder, the change would be gradual and imperceptible.
Since over bored suppressors work OK on 556, a worn out 556 suppressor is most likely due to a mount wearing out, a baffle strike, or a tube failure due to corrosion or a 'oh shit' event. One way to justify a new suppressor is that having one in the pipeline that covers capability should an 'oh shit' happen. |
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Posted: 12/25/2018 1:49:16 PM EDT
[#4]
When there is a situation involving aggressive wear from hard use in any silencer the most important attribute is to keep the bore from closing in with peening when material is quite hot and temporarily softened. The only material that should cause concern is the material that is pushed into and left in the bore.
That material can be pretty easily removed with a high speed drill and an electric hand drill from the discharge or muzzle side as long as the baffle geometry supports it. If you dont know what size to use start small, you dont want to cut anything but the peened edge. I once bought a lightly used nt4 for example and the previous owner had baffle grazed it and there was material in the bore from that on a couple baffles rendering the can less safe to shoot than new. No problem i grabbed a .295 hss drill bit (the can has like a .300 bore) and ran it with a hand drill and it cut the peened over 625 inconel no problem and got the bore round again- near perfect. |
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Posted: 12/25/2018 2:09:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FritzTKatt: Say the aperture on your .22 can is .27... you've shot it so much that the blast baffle is paper thin and the aperture is now something extreme like .35. I'm guessing this isn't even a legitimate concern based on the thought process of service life and "you spent $10k on ammo, buy a new $600 can". Which I generally agree with that sentiment. Surely someone around here has shot a suppressor out, along with a barrel or 2 along the way. At what point did they call it quits and decide the can is done and rebuild the baffle stack or have to destroy the item? What criteria did they use to determine it was at the end of its service life? What I'm asking is how do you know it's worn out? E.g. so far with my M4SD, it has about 2,500 rounds through it (99% SA, 200rds FA) . It appears to have zero erosion, but a good bit of junk caked on the inside. I can knock the junk off by gently scraping with a tool. A lot of it is soluble with CLP or motor oil. Even then, the layer of crud is nothing. It still sounds great. Obviously this can is still good to go and has thousands of rounds left in its service life. Maybe @green0 can chime in and divulge the expected round count? Or how eroded the baffles can get before they'd no longer consider it safe to shoot? We know of one user who on video ran 500rds in 5 minutes on a 10.5 5.56 gun, and hes still running his today (years later). Obviously the harder you push cans the shorter life will be, but we havent had any users wear them out. It makes more sense to use the product like you would normally use the rifle without the can. There are several (known to us) swat teams and a foreign military customer for the product currently, and we sell most probably (~95%) of cans through dealer and distributor customers so thats all Im aware of. |
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Posted: 12/25/2018 7:38:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Updated Griffin Optimus numbers.
About 2.5k 9mm via pistol About 500 5.56 from a 10.5" in long configuration with a taper mount comp About 1,448 5.56 from a 10.5" in mid configuration with micro 3 prong flash hider taper mount. About 100 6.5 creedmoor 150 7.62x51 from 18" with paladin taper mount mid configuration Rifle blast baffle pretty worn down, any further wear and I can not remove it with the push rod... without replacement of this part I have to decide either 9mm can or rifle can. 
 This is the part that concerned me the most. At some point the first baffle (after the rifle baffle) started to deform, I don't think this was a baffle strike as I never heard anything strange... but know knows. What worries me about this is it got caught on the push rod ever so slightely and I actually had to hammer the push rod out... so it looks like no more shooting 9mm until I either drill it or get it repaired. I need this for a course in Feb so I will most likely just keep as is until after that. Would take better pics but first end cap is stuck on pretty good. 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/26/2018 2:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#7]
I doubt that peeled over second baffle is flame erosion. My guess is under mag dumps you had a projectile melt and go off course in the can.
The blast baffle shows wear consistent with 3-prong FH use on your 10.5. Rate of fire/duty cycle is a big factor in thermal metal fatigue and flame erosion. You might want to consider a can with inconel or stellite internals, or switch to a muzzle brake mount on the shorties for some sacrificial blast baffle effect and more even gas jetting into the blast baffle. Griffin should be able to turn that around before your class. I'd get an RA going on that, signature required and full insurance in both shipment directions. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 8:30:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By assaultdog0351:
Updated Griffin Optimus numbers. About 2.5k 9mm via pistol About 500 5.56 from a 10.5" in long configuration with a taper mount comp About 1,448 5.56 from a 10.5" in mid configuration with micro 3 prong flash hider taper mount. About 100 6.5 creedmoor 150 7.62x51 from 18" with paladin taper mount mid configuration Rifle blast baffle pretty worn down, any further wear and I can not remove it with the push rod... without replacement of this part I have to decide either 9mm can or rifle can. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_170338-785362.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_170342-785366.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_170349-785367.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_170354-785368.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_170359-785372.jpg This is the part that concerned me the most. At some point the first baffle (after the rifle baffle) started to deform, I don't think this was a baffle strike as I never heard anything strange... but know knows. What worries me about this is it got caught on the push rod ever so slightely and I actually had to hammer the push rod out... so it looks like no more shooting 9mm until I either drill it or get it repaired. I need this for a course in Feb so I will most likely just keep as is until after that. Would take better pics but first end cap is stuck on pretty good. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_165418-785385.jpg |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 9:37:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By assaultdog0351:
Updated Griffin Optimus numbers. About 2.5k 9mm via pistol About 500 5.56 from a 10.5" in long configuration with a taper mount comp About 1,448 5.56 from a 10.5" in mid configuration with micro 3 prong flash hider taper mount. About 100 6.5 creedmoor 150 7.62x51 from 18" with paladin taper mount mid configuration https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/313258/20181225_165418-785385.jpg 
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Posted: 12/27/2018 1:22:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Effenpig]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter:
I doubt that peeled over second baffle is flame erosion. My guess is under mag dumps you had a projectile melt and go off course in the can. The blast baffle shows wear consistent with 3-prong FH use on your 10.5. Rate of fire/duty cycle is a big factor in thermal metal fatigue and flame erosion. You might want to consider a can with inconel or stellite internals, or switch to a muzzle brake mount on the shorties for some sacrificial blast baffle effect and more even gas jetting into the blast baffle. Griffin should be able to turn that around before your class. I'd get an RA going on that, signature required and full insurance in both shipment directions. I switched from a FH to a brake on my 10.5" that I use my Sig 556ti-qd on. Between when I bought the can and actually received my form 4, Sig started recommending minimum 16" barrel for the ti model I'd also agree about the 2nd baffle. With the amount of wear for the round count I'm guessing things got hot enough to melt some lead Eta: I noticed the difference between the last pics and these pics is 448 rounds. To get that much additional wear in under 500 rounds you must have had that thing smokin' 
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Posted: 12/27/2018 1:53:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: assaultdog0351]
[#11]
I did get the can pretty hot. Maybe 20-30 minutes to fire 448 rounds. But the day started out with some creedmoor. The days prior were mostly 9mm, Creedmoor and a touch of 5.56. There is also some 7.62x39 in there which is probably the main source of the carbon buildup aside from the 9mm.
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Posted: 12/27/2018 11:27:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By assaultdog0351:
I did get the can pretty hot. Maybe 20-30 minutes to fire 448 rounds. But the day started out with some creedmoor. The days prior were mostly 9mm, Creedmoor and a touch of 5.56. There is also some 7.62x39 in there which is probably the main source of the carbon buildup aside from the 9mm.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2018 12:59:41 PM EDT
[#13]
What did @griffinarmament say as a cost to rebuild that Optimus?
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Posted: 12/28/2018 1:15:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rwatson452:
What did @griffinarmament say as a cost to rebuild that Optimus? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2018 4:13:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47:
@Green0 |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 4:29:10 PM EDT
[#16]
That's definitely a can to send for service. I don't handle service here, so I would send an e-mail to [email protected] and ask for a RMA# on the first e-mail to get it moving. It seems like the use would have been better for a really hard use suppressor like an M4SD II or K. The Optimus was intended for hunting, hobby use on everything a person owns on the weekends - that type of stuff- great for first time NFA purchases. It wasn't intended to replace military/duty style suppressors for the hard use category stuff.
The guys will work with you to get it back to new condition. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 8:51:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: Safety to shoot is a bigger bore not a smaller one. So if you wear a can out from normal low to medium temperature use it should erode in that direction (larger) and always be safe to shoot. The m4sd cans are pretty durable silencers. In that product group you could have one on a 14.5 or 16inch gun and run 30,000 rounds. We know of one user who on video ran 500rds in 5 minutes on a 10.5 5.56 gun, and hes still running his today (years later). Obviously the harder you push cans the shorter life will be, but we havent had any users wear them out. It makes more sense to use the product like you would normally use the rifle without the can. There are several (known to us) swat teams and a foreign military customer for the product currently, and we sell most probably (~95%) of cans through dealer and distributor customers so thats all Im aware of. Should I expect better service life from the m4sdII? One of these days I'll actually get one on order... |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2018 9:01:47 PM EDT
[#18]
M4sdk is surprisingly quiet for a k can and looks bad ass. Love it.
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Posted: 12/29/2018 10:50:00 PM EDT
[#19]
YHM Turbo on 10.5" barrel with brake, 200 rounds.
 Attached File Attached FileSecond YHM on a 16.5 barrel with brake, 200 rounds.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 10:58:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Specwar 556 on my 11.5" 556 SBR with a Silencerco brake 2-2.5k rounds approximately and about 3-400 on a 16.5" with FH.
 Attached FileSpecwar 762 with flashhider, 800 rounds on 16" 556 and around 700 rounds of .308 on a 16" barrel.  Attached FileYHM Ti Phantom 762 QD with a flashhider on my 16" Ruger GSR around 500 rounds and 250 6.5 Grendel with FH from a 16.5" barrel.  Attached FileGriffin Armament Recce 7 Mod 3 with about 400 rounds of 6.5 Grendel with an 18" barrel.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 11:54:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: assaultdog0351]
[#21]
I got the paperwork for the Optimus repair. Not too expensive per baffle, can't recall off the top of my head but the rifle baffle is more than the 9mm, just under. The shipping will cost more probably.
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Posted: 12/31/2018 7:46:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FritzTKatt: Thanks for the input. Sounds like it will outlast me. Well, maybe not. Probably 10-15 years at my rate. When I got to play with it on a MG the other day I remembered the booklet saying 2 mag dumps then SA, so for fun's sake it would get 2 mags then about 10 minutes rest. Should I expect better service life from the m4sdII? One of these days I'll actually get one on order... There are some cans on the market like Surefire where [some] of the baffles are ~.015" thick, and that's a design emphasis on safety even over durability. If the baffles that thin get very hot, they may just melt in the hottest areas and blow harmlessly away. They once had a video in the early days that basically talked about how they wanted bullets to be able to fired in a relatively straight line right through the baffles in the event of a baffle strike. Obviously thicker materials fair better for wear, but there are engineering reasons for more and less durable, or lighter and heavier suppressors. To a SWAT team where the expectation is a potential shooting of hostage takers (people in the very close proximity to people who are innocent) and stuff like that, that kind of design or marketing influence can be seen as risk mitigation for a department. Whether the baffle strike will actually occur, and whether the bullet will actually fly straight enough to safeguard a downrange bystander or hostage, are impossible to predict. I have never had a baffle strike with a Griffin centerfire silencer. All the bullets I've fired flew straight. We have for a while test fired all the cans, and a baffle strike is not something that has yet occurred. An employee swaps cans at a rate of about 2 per minute for hours at a time and all the cans then go to final inspection before boxing. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/18/2019 9:36:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Rugged Suppressors Razor 1,700 rounds of mostly 5.56 through 10.5" barrels
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Posted: 1/19/2019 12:39:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djsity:
Rugged Suppressors Razor 1,700 rounds of mostly 5.56 through 10.5" barrels http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/djsity/B486A8EA-024C-4083-BEF4-0BF96307C330.png |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/19/2019 10:16:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fordkicksass:
That looks like it is taking the abuse in stride! Curious, are you using a brake or flash hider? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fordkicksass:
Originally Posted By djsity:
Rugged Suppressors Razor 1,700 rounds of mostly 5.56 through 10.5" barrels http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/djsity/B486A8EA-024C-4083-BEF4-0BF96307C330.png |
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Posted: 1/19/2019 10:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: boltcatch]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FritzTKatt:
I'm guessing this isn't even a legitimate concern based on the thought process of service life and "you spent $10k on ammo, buy a new $600 can". Which I generally agree with that sentiment. Considered like that, wanting something with a long service life is reasonable. Get a poor match of materials and design for your intended purpose and you can wreck a can with $150 in ammo instead of $10k. Use one as intended and they should outlast you. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 9:37:08 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 1/21/2019 10:48:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By boltcatch:
NFA process throws a huge wrench in that. Doesn't matter if you have the cash for another $600 can if you don't have a stable address due to work, or the FBI has you on their fuck-your-background-check list, or ATF isn't processing, etc. Considered like that, wanting something with a long service life is reasonable. Get a poor match of materials and design for your intended purpose and you can wreck a can with $150 in ammo instead of $10k. Use one as intended and they should outlast you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By boltcatch:
Originally Posted By FritzTKatt:
I'm guessing this isn't even a legitimate concern based on the thought process of service life and "you spent $10k on ammo, buy a new $600 can". Which I generally agree with that sentiment. Considered like that, wanting something with a long service life is reasonable. Get a poor match of materials and design for your intended purpose and you can wreck a can with $150 in ammo instead of $10k. Use one as intended and they should outlast you. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:08:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: boltcatch]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
Unless you have a baffle strike or catastrophic failure most cans can just be rebuilt Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
Originally Posted By boltcatch:
Originally Posted By FritzTKatt:
I'm guessing this isn't even a legitimate concern based on the thought process of service life and "you spent $10k on ammo, buy a new $600 can". Which I generally agree with that sentiment. Considered like that, wanting something with a long service life is reasonable. Get a poor match of materials and design for your intended purpose and you can wreck a can with $150 in ammo instead of $10k. Use one as intended and they should outlast you. But if you lack the former and no longer have permission to do the latter, you're sort of hosed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:46:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zachsmith526:
Surefire RC2 with 675 rounds on it, mostly 10.5/11.5" barrels with 3-prong FH. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171069/D3494901-7D13-4961-A8DA-801E351DD89E_jpeg-816941.JPGI am The edge of the blast baffle looks really bad. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/22/2019 2:41:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulautotank:
I am surprised how much erosion there is on the blast baffle with only 675 rounds through it. I haven't put any through my RC2 yet. I have mine on a 12.5" gun. The edge of the blast baffle looks really bad. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 4:18:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MisterDurden]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulautotank:
I am surprised how much erosion there is on the blast baffle with only 675 rounds through it. I haven't put any through my RC2 yet. I have mine on a 12.5" gun. The edge of the blast baffle looks really bad.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2019 12:35:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MisterDurden]
[#33]
 Attached FileAlmost 1200 rounds, most of it through 10.5”/11.5” barrels with 3P flash hiders. Surefire RC2. |
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Posted: 4/1/2019 9:56:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MisterDurden]
[#34]
1400 rounds on Surefire RC2, 10.5/11.5” barrels, open tine flash hiders:
 Attached File*** Then I swapped to a closed tine warcomp and a brake to try and minimize that baffle wear, this is 2500 rounds:  Attached File*** Can is showing some wear now too haha  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/6/2019 9:55:50 AM EDT
[#35]
As I look at this thread I can't help but think of the companies that say you don't need to take them apart and clean.
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Posted: 4/6/2019 11:49:15 AM EDT
[#36]
The vast majority of these pics are not of dirty suppressors, they are eroded. User maintenance wouldn't change that.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/6/2019 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
The vast majority of these pics are not of dirty suppressors, they are eroded. User maintenance wouldn't change that. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:47:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Q Trash Panda, 0 rounds fired
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Posted: 6/9/2019 6:58:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Tagged to remind myself to contribute someday
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Posted: 7/8/2019 10:00:10 PM EDT
[#40]
@DCV_117 that’s beautiful haha
*** Just under 3100 rounds (Surefire RC2), switched to a brake and CT Warcomp and think the blast baffle looks better than when I was using the 3P.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/9/2019 1:22:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zachsmith526:
1400 rounds on Surefire RC2, 10.5/11.5” barrels, open tine flash hiders: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171069/5FF83A7A-F860-4B5D-8C9E-96717374EE22_jpeg-898032.JPG *** Then I swapped to a closed tine warcomp and a brake to try and minimize that baffle wear, this is 2500 rounds: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171069/E0587568-E9C1-4B01-B7F2-1A3F24FAD453_jpeg-898041.JPG *** Can is showing some wear now too haha https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171069/3EA02D56-AE2F-46B0-AF76-2D34D921F573_jpeg-898040.JPG Dead Air is sending me a new muzzle device, they asked if i wanted a new flash hider or a brake. Ill go with a brake. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 7/9/2019 3:58:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Not a picture, but a short video.
Just because it's cool, this is a ~5.5" x 1.75" prototype CGS silencer which was 3D printed (DMSLS) out of 718 Inconel. This silencer has had 600rds of continuous full auto 5.56 ran through it on an M249, and has had around 2,000rds of 5.56 through it on a 10.5” AR15 and around 1,000rds of 5.56 through it on a 16” AR15, along with other misc round counts on other hosts. |
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Posted: 7/9/2019 3:59:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zachsmith526:
@DCV_117 that’s beautiful haha 
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Posted: 7/13/2019 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#44]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2019 7:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11B3XCIB]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronnoc:
BH Gas Can with 0 rounds through it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/73248/IMG_20190713_144221706__2__jpg-1014694.JPG 
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Posted: 7/13/2019 10:13:30 PM EDT
[#46]
I think that might be the angle, don't have a reaction rod, don't even have .30 cal weapon, biggest is 6.5. Some other pics. I have an 8mm dowel rod that fits right, doesn't catch, clearance seems fine.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/14/2019 12:45:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11B3XCIB: The middle portion of that looks pretty off center. I’d be curious to see an alignment rod in there http://i.imgur.com/YKjhuxr.jpg |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 7/15/2019 1:29:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11B3XCIB]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KalmanPhilter: Thats a cast stellite baffle so the final EDM should create a path true to the centerline. On the Omega the front cap exit aperture is bigger than the final baffle cone ID so when I see any concentricity issues with a gauge rod on the front cap I always remove it and look to see where the rod passes that last baffle. The Omega is fairly tightly bored for a .30 can, approx. 0.360" at the last baffle IIRC. OP’s Omega blast baffle in the thread below doesn’t look remotely like the BH Faux-mega in this one. The other baffles though 
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/SiCo-Omega-now-with-pre-bubba-d-baffles-/20-501089/&page=2 |
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Posted: 7/15/2019 1:50:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Wear will definitely not be a concern, if anything it will go on a 16 or 18 inch Grendel or creedmoor barrel. I run brakes on most things too.
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Posted: 8/7/2019 6:46:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Form1 Zmachine cone, 400-500 rounds of 556 semi auto and mag-dumps |
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