I am proposing a thread that will hopefully have 'tack' potential.  Many of the same questions get asked over and over by people who come and go through here.

I was thinking that this could be both a 'technical discussion/explanation' as well as a type of 'buyers guide'.  Not by brand name, but by features to look for when making the purchase.

I must admit I know very little about suppressed weaponry, only that it would have saved a better portion of my hearing in real world gun fights in the past.  So I am counting on people in the 'industry' to make some excellent posts that I'll be able to reorganize her in a logical format.

I'll start with some of the technical questions people ask:

Are they legal? How do I buy one?
For the most part yes, however some states do not allow certain NFA items.  Federally you must meet the following requirements: Be at least 21 years of age, be a U.S. citizen, have no felony convictions or domestic violence convictions, have no dishonorable discharge, not deemed mentally unstable by a competent authority.  Basically the same rules for owning a handgun.  The NFA rules/laws are posted through the BATFE website.

There is one caveat to this.....one member applied for and was approved to "manufacturer" his own SBR from a legally possessed AR15 when he was 18.  If you made your own suppressor with a FORM 1 I suppose you could apply the same ruling.  But as we know the ATF changes their mind like they do their underwear. ETA: you have to be 21 to buy one from a dealer, but you can buy one from an individual or entity at 18, as well as make your own at 18.

At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers:
AK, AL, AR, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, IA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, MD, ME, MI, MN, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WA, WV, WI, and WY. Of the eight states which do not allow civilian ownership, CA and MA allow class 3 dealers and class two manufacturers to possess silencers.



How does a suppressor/silencer work?
Suppressors, also called silencers or 'cans', work very much like a car muffler.  They reroute the exiting gases to allow them to more slowly expand, thus creating more of a 'hissss' than a 'pop'.  Think of a soda can.  When you open the top very quickly you get a 'pop' sound.  If you slowly break open the seal you get a quieter 'hissssssss'.  This is basically the same principle (except the gases in the firearm combust causing a small "explosion" if you will).  The idea is to reduce the rate that these hot gases hit the outside oxygen and thereby reduces the "burn" effect.  You could actually get the same effect (although not as great) by creating a super long barrel.  I believe there is a shotgun barrel that adds an additional 30" to a regular skeet/trap barrel with several gas ports along the top.  In effect it allows the gases to burn more completely before exiting and also allows the gas to escape along the many "compensation ports".

Can any firearm be suppressed?
Well, that answer is relative.  I could technically suppress a revolver and reduce the amount of gas and noise coming from the barrel, but the amount of gas and noise that emits from the cylinder gap makes this a fruitless endeavor.  People seem to always pose the question about suppressing a shotgun as well.  Again, technically you could build a suppressor for one but it would be so large and cumbersome it would have no "tactical" advantage or usefulness.  You also run into the problem of only shooting slugs (to prevent massive baffle strike by the buckshot pellets) or coming up with some type of multi-ported interior barrel inside the suppressor.

Barrel length also plays a HUGE part of suppressor effectiveness.  Remember that the shorter the barrel the less complete the gases burn causing a greater "combustion" outside the muzzle. When these unburnt gases hit the first 'chamber' of the suppressor the more it heats of the can.  The more it heats it up the less effective it becomes.  There is also the greater chance of wear/damage to the suppressor with the super high temps and pressure (think of a 'plasma cutter' )  

Generally, most pistol suppressors can handle the temps of any standard size pistols.  Although reliable cycling of the weapon becomes an issue depending on the design of the action.  AR style carbines/rifles are best suited for barrels longer than 11.5".  Some manufactures will not warranty their products on the "short barrels" such as 7.5" and 10.5" due to the problems that can result from them.  I have no experience with these types of setups (although I'm saving up for one in the near future!)

Can I use any ammo or do I have to buy special ammo?

Depends on what you're after.  Any ammo that is super-sonic (faster than the speed of sound) will create it's own "sonic crack" and be impossible to 'silence' so to speak.  For center fire rifles you can buy subsonic rounds to eliminate most of the noise.  Remeber too that the sound of the action on a semi-auto can be very loud as well.  Some subsonic ammo will not reliably function the action of the AR15 setup.  For pistols (.45ACP in particular) alot of the standard ammo is already 'sub-sonic'.

Do I have to do anything special to my firearm to accept a suppressor?

Most firearms will need to be threaded for a suppressor.  Even those barrels that are already threaded (AR15's) should be rethreaded when attaching a suppressor.  THis is because that in high volume production, the threads on the barrel are not always concentric to the bore.  This doesn't matter with a regular flash hider or compensator but with the suppressor being off just a few thousands of a inch can create baffel strikes.

Some supressor use a "quick detach" method over the existing flash hider or compensator.  The same problems can arise if this is not perfectly concentric to the bore.

You are about to spend $200 on the tax stamp....$600-1200 on the supressor, so don't cheap out on a $65 threading job to ensure accurate, quality threading on your barrel.





How can I make my gun "Hollywood quiet"?
Short answer: You can't.  First, the very fact that most firearms cycling of the action results in a very "loud" metallic click negate this possibility.  You also have to factor in that most rounds are "super sonic" which means that they will create a small 'sonic boom' as they come out of the barrel (just ask anyone whose worked 'the pits' at a long range match---you can hear a very loud 'crack' above your head followed by the sound of the gunshot).  Now, it is possible to use "sub sonic" ammunition in some firearm calibers while others are far too "heavy" and reducing the load would cause serious functioning problems.

What is first round pop?
FRP is related to a louder-than-normal report. This occurs when oxygen is present within a suppressor. Since 1/5th of our atmosphere is oxygen, FRP usually occurs when the very first shot is taken. Few (if any) gun powders retain enough chemical oxygen internally to allow total and complete combustion in the cartridge case and barrel. These hot combustion gasses often reignite after they reenter the primary chamber in a silencer on the first shot. Subsequent shots delivered in close succession are usually much quieter than the first shot in a sequence. FRP will reoccur when another shot is taken a few minutes later, as more oxygen will gradually reenter a silencer that is not sealed off from the atmosphere. FRP can be minimized with careful design, and with a very small primary expansion chamber, but it is considered a major problem within the suppressor industry. FRP can be a problem with compact cans, extremely short pistol barrels and center fire cans. A small primary expansion chamber in .223, .308, .50 BMG and heavier calibers will soon damage a rifle’s muzzle due to a plasma effect – causing accuracy to deteriorate because of premature melting and erosion of the barrel metal in the weapon’s bore.


What does it mean when someone says shooting a 'wet' can?
It means that someone has put either water, grease, or oil inside the suppressor.  Remember the part about escaping hot gases?  Well, the water does two things.  First it acts like a 'coolant'.  Cooling the gases faster means less combustion.  Second, it acts to reduce the 'volume' of the gas (this is a super scientific area that is not even worth explaining as I don't even fully understand it myself....but basically gases always maintain their 'mass' but their 'volume' can change.  If you're that interested go look up  Benoît Paul Émile Clapeyron's "Ideal gas law").

So, how long does this last?  Well, that is relative.  The effects of the water begin to degrade right after the first shot.  Some tests have shown it to last up to 30 rounds.  I've personally fired a 'wet can' on an 11.5" AR barrel and noticed the 'extra suppression' starts to degrade after 5 shots.  

It's important to know that you don't "fill the can up" with water.  Usually just dunking the can then shaking it out or adding a few table spoons of water and shaking it out will be effective.  Water tends to be more effective than both grease and oil.  Grease is not as messy as the oil but it still stays in the barrel.  

The one major drawback of a wet can is that the lead vapors can cool faster and condense inside the baffles.  A dirtier can may result in more serious problems if the suppressor gets super heated and the lead flakes off creating small "projectiles" inside the can.

ADDED BY TONY_K:
The gases that propel the bullet contain kinetic energy, and that energy has to go somewhere (see: the first law of thermodynamics, the conservation of energy, yada yada yada).

When a dry suppressor vents those gases through the baffles, the energy is converted through friction to heat (thermal energy) -- which is why suppressors get so hot.

By wetting the inside of the suppressor, the energy in the gas is instead put to work converting the artificial medium (water, oil, grease, etc.) from a liquid form to a vapor. This conversion process very efficiently uses up a tremendous amount of that energy, so there is less residual energy to generate heat -- and, more importantly, there is less residual sound.

When all of the liquid artificial medium has been converted to vapor, there is nothing left for the gases to work on, and the can gets louder again.

In theory, with sufficient volume and artificial medium for the energy to "work on," a wet suppressor would be completely silent. In reality, a centerfire round would require a suppressor the size of a 55-gallon drum to do so.

Also note that air and gases can be compressed, while water (and artificial media) cannot. Suppressors are designed and built to withstand a certain level of pressure before the seams let go and they grenade. The pressure generated by venting a given caliber's gases into a can of known volume can be calculated, and the suppressor is built to withstand that level.

But adding non-compressible media reduces the volume remaining to contain the expanding gases. Putting the same amount of gas into a smaller volume raises pressure levels -- and, in some cases, beyond the suppressor's design strength.

The lesson herein: Unless your suppressor is rated for wet use, contact the manufacturer before adding any artificial medium.

What's a "Gas Buster" and why do I need it?
A great deal of gas/lubricant/lead vapor is blown back through the upper receiver out the back near the charging handle area on an AR15/AR10.  This is magnified when using a suppressor.  One way to combat this is by using a "gas buster" handle.  This proprietary charging handle uses a higher "shelf" on the rear of the handle area which blocks the gases from coming out the top into the shooters eye.

A "poor mans gas buster" can be made by using a little RTV (room temperature vulcanizing) sealant in the gap between the upper receiver and charging handle.

Much of this should be somewhat of a non issue however if you are always shooting with eye protection.  Safety glasses are more than just an 'annoying range rule'.  Regardless of what type of firearms activity you are engaged in....eye and ear protection should always be utilized (life or death CCW confrontations aside).

Can I use a .223 suppressor on my 22LR ?
Yes, but this is not recommended by some knowledgeable people in the industry.  The main reason is that 22LR causes a great deal of fouling in the internals of the can which requires a great deal of cleaning and can necessitate a can that is able to be taken apart by the end user.  If the can cannot be taken apart then it is much more difficult to clean.  But more importantly is what will happen when you switch over to .223.  First, a solid can that is welded is more durable and better suited for heavy use of a .223 caliber weapon.  The problem is going to arise however when the .223 heats up the can to much higher temps than the .22LR did.  In the process this could knock some of the fouling build up that remains in the can from the 22LR which in turn could cause serious damage to the baffles as it’s blown out the barrel.  This is almost like a plasma cutter effect.  The baffles could already be superheated from extended or full auto fire making the internals "soft".  The hot carbon that got knocked loose could now be blown out the can striking the baffles on the way out and chewing them up little by little.  Over time by switching back and forth between heavy use this could really eat up the internals.


Baffle strikes, what are they and what causes them ?
As the round leaves the barrel is passes through a series of "chambers" called baffles.  When a round is not properly stabilized it can "wobble" off center and can touch the interior of the suppressor.  This can be caused by an improper twist rate (too slow or bullet too heavy), an overheated barrel and suppressor, or by rounds that do not have enough powder for the correct velocity.  The last issue can depend on bullet caliber.  While generally most manufactures will rate their .22LR and .223 cans to be used with subsonic ammo many state that subsonic .308 is not recommended.  This is due to the fact that pushing that large .308 round down the barrel at subsonic speeds is not enough to suitably stabilize the bullet which can lead to a baffle strike.

Another issue which can cause a baffle strike is an improperly mounted suppressor.  Before mounting you must first ensure that the threads on the barrel are properly lined up with the bore axis.  Although someone may be good enough to use a "die" to cut the threads by hand the only "sure way" is to have a competent machinist/gunsmith cut the threads on a lathe.  Next, if it is thread-on mounted then proper procedures must be followed to ensure a tight/correct fit. (Don't ask me what these are as I am nowhere near informed enough to comment on this---someone who is please feel free to add that section).  If it is QD mounted then the adapter must be correctly mounted in a similar fashion to ensure it is lined up with the bore axis.


How about traveling with a suppressor across states lines?

ADDED BY TONY_K
Approved 5320.20s are required for interstate transportation of all NFA items except suppressors and AOWs.

If you are transporting other types of NFA, it's worth getting .20s for your suppressors and AOWs as well as a CYA. Many LE do not know AOWs and cans are exempt from .20s, and will wonder why they aren't on your approved list.

BATFE will approve a 5320.20 for suppressors and AOWs if you submit one.

As far as notifying out-of-state authorities ... no notice is required to travel through a state -- that is protected under FOPA '86. Some states do have their own requirements for visitors, though, so if you want to shoot NFA at your destination, check in the hometown forums about that state's regs. (IIRC, Va., N.C. and Mass. regulate visitors' NFA, but don't hold me to that.)



Can I make a silencer out of a soda bottle or potato?
If it weren't for the fact that people believe a lot of the stuff they see on TV it would be laughable at some of the things we see.  The answer to the above is not so straight forward.  First, you can do what ever you want as long as you are willing to risk going to prison and possibly ruining your firearm at the same time.

What level of suppression you get out of a soda bottle is also relative.  Even if it only lowered the sound level by 1 decibel the BATFE would consider it a suppressor/silencer by NFA standards and would be regulated (which is why having a real XM177 moderator is foolish because they only lowered the dB by about 2-3 decibels at best---not worth the NFA headache).

So if you are willing to skirt the law, and have a suppressor that will only lower the sound by a marginal amount then yes you could theoretically.  You can also put your hand on a hot stove if you wanted to....let us know how that turns out for you.


OK, who else wants  to add some stuff?

Please post and correct where I am wrong or if additional info is needed.

Reserved for more info

Reserved for more info

How about the difference between wet and dry cans? Effects of usiing water in one's can, consequences etc etc.

First warning; "don't expect hollywood queit"

Then perhaps effects of minimum barrel length for 223 cans.

Perhaps notes about when 9mm or 22lr goes supersonic out of what length barrels.

Also, mentioning that 45, while usually subsonic, is harder to suppress effectively because of the exit diameter.

Are they legal? How do I buy one? For the most part yes. *snip*

Some (16) states do not allow suppressor ownership.

Originally Posted By GhostRing: Are they legal? How do I buy one? For the most part yes. *snip* Some (16) states do not allow suppressor ownership.

Ok, made it a little more specific.....

At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers:
AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. Of the sixteen states which do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow class 3 dealers and class two manufacturers to possess silencers.

-traveling with suppressor, the myths and facts

-pictures of the current most bought/used suppressors (this could be very subjective)

-explanation of how the suppressor actually works



some off the top of my head

+1

How about traveling from state to state and actually using a can in a state other than your home state?

I've been told that a phone call to the State Troopers letting them know that you are going to be going through their state was sufficient...of course this came from a gun store clerk.

Originally Posted By bjwar10: +1 How about traveling from state to state and actually using a can in a state other than your home state? I've been told that a phone call to the State Troopers letting them know that you are going to be going through their state was sufficient...of course this came from a gun store clerk.

the atf wants a 5320 form filled out and sent in before traveling with Machine Guns and SBRs (not 100% on the machine gun part)

and suppressors seem to be an optional disclosure

DOH nevermind

Has anyone used a high-end dB meter to measure what the noise level is at the ear of someone shooting a .223 with a can on it?

Thanks in advance,
Walsh.

P.S. I'm just learning that Radio Shack, and most other meters, don't cut it. According to some info at Gem-Teck, the meter needs to be able to read the first 20 microseconds of the blast to register the highest level of noise.

Cleaning the lead out of a .22LR can. Be warned about aluminum destroying aluminum baffles.

Originally Posted By Radiant556: I know some of you know about this already, but many of you may not. One of the big problems with .22 cans that can't be disassembled is that they are VERY difficult to thoroughly clean.  The lead and powder fouling can build up to an irreversible point very quickly, particularly if you use the can on a rifle.   A friend who shoots a lot of black powder cartridge rifles overheard me bitch about ineffective ways of cleaning lead out of .22 cans the other day, and he told me that he uses a 1:1 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to remove lead from cases and barrels. I mixed up a batch, filled up a Nalgene bottle, and tossed in a very cruddy AWC suppressor. Three days later, checked the bottle, and there's all kinds of blue/gray granular fouling in the bottom of the bottle.  Took the can out, blew it out with a compressor, and holy shit.  Clean as new. Worked on an AAC Pilot too, which has Al guts and tube.   Apparently the solution dissolves the lead, converting it to lead acetate or some shit like that.  Try it, you'll be amazed.

My state Ms. showes its legal to own but a state permit is required. Does that mean I have to do a federal form 1 as well as obtain a additional state permit for a suppressor? ?

If so what kind of state permit and do you know where I would get that.

Suppressors (as well as all other NFA) are legal in ND. I don't see ND mentioned in your original post. I know.... many people forget about us up here.

I have a question that definitely wasn't answered in the tacked portion of this thread:

What amount of sound suppression can be expected from a 14.5", 16", and 20" AR?

I realize there are many variables- the can design, wear/age, ETC. But generally speaking, how much is the report reduced? If you want specifics I'm personally interested in the YHM Phantom mounted on a 16" barrel. I use 55, 62, and 77-grain loads. Yankee Hill says the Phantom "reduced muzzle noise by up to 35 decibels." Okay, that's a start. According to these guys a gun shot is around 140 db. So if we subtract the advertised 35 db maximum, we're still at a sound level around a gas mower, motorcycle or snowmobile. Huh? Why would it even be worth suppressing if that's all you get? What am I missing?

Originally Posted By justbill: I have a question that definitely wasn't answered in the tacked portion of this thread: What amount of sound suppression can be expected from a 14.5", 16", and 20" AR? I realize there are many variables- the can design, wear/age, ETC. But generally speaking, how much is the report reduced? If you want specifics I'm personally interested in the YHM Phantom mounted on a 16" barrel. I use 55, 62, and 77-grain loads. Yankee Hill says the Phantom "reduced muzzle noise by up to 35 decibels." Okay, that's a start. According to these guys a gun shot is around 140 db. So if we subtract the advertised 35 db maximum, we're still at a sound level around a gas mower, motorcycle or snowmobile. Huh? Why would it even be worth suppressing if that's all you get? What am I missing?

As exact a science as "decibel metering" is  the WAY a suppressed can sounds is almost like an art.  You see, different baffel designs produce different sounds.  The gases escape at different speeds and so forth.  Trust me, reducing an AR by 35 dB's is huge!

There are a variety of reasons...the Military likes to mask the shooter, LE likes to save the shooters hearing plus help determine friendly from enemy fire, hunters like to save their hearing, and everyday shooters just find shooting suppressed weapons enjoyable.

Oh, and a "gas mower" sound for only a tenth of a second is not that bad.

Originally Posted By justbill: I have a question that definitely wasn't answered in the tacked portion of this thread: What amount of sound suppression can be expected from a 14.5", 16", and 20" AR? I realize there are many variables- the can design, wear/age, ETC. But generally speaking, how much is the report reduced? If you want specifics I'm personally interested in the YHM Phantom mounted on a 16" barrel. I use 55, 62, and 77-grain loads. Yankee Hill says the Phantom "reduced muzzle noise by up to 35 decibels." Okay, that's a start. According to these guys a gun shot is around 140 db. So if we subtract the advertised 35 db maximum, we're still at a sound level around a gas mower, motorcycle or snowmobile. Huh? Why would it even be worth suppressing if that's all you get? What am I missing?

One thing you have to understand is the "average person's hearing" vs "individual hearing"

If you were to average the hearing threshold (the dB rating that people begin to hear sound) for everyone in the united states you would have this average of 0dB HL (hearing level)

Well, the variance is between 15-20db plus/minus the average, and this is still considered "normal/ok hearing" So an individual can have +/- 20dB from the average of 0dB and still be normal.

So, when you talk about metering cans, you have to keep all this in mind....and do not buy into the numbers...so much.

So lets say you have a 20db deficit in both of your ears (which means you do not begin to hear compared to the average until 20dB, instead of 0dB), and a suppressor shoots and meters 125SPL (sound pressure level, calibrated relative to atmospheric pressure), it could sound like 105dB to you......relatively quiet considering most cans....

But lets say i have better than average hearing and i have -20db "enhancement" in my hearing, this can now sounds like 145SPL - pretty damn loud, like a normal unsuppressed rifle..

These are extreme examples, but it illustrates a point...

So you have to consider the HUMAN ANATOMICAL factors when it comes to cans...so ALWAYS hear the can if you can before you buy it......

And if you want to get more specific, then you can define Sound Pressure level of silencers, how they meter in regards to atmospheric pressure depends on the frequency...which opens up an entire new can of theory

Great Post Tony_k.......

In conclusion over time, there is truly no "hearing safe can"

Some basic dB levels from wikipedia

200dB -- Rocket engine at 30 m 183dB -- Blue whale humming at 1 m 163dB -- Windows break 150dB -- Jet engine at 30 m 130dB -- Threshold of pain; train horn at 10 m 120dB -- Rock concert

Granted shooting bolt action is not as constant as a jet engine...but beta dumps on full auto..this culminating effect is dramatic on the auditory pathways....

Assuming that those dB listed by wikipedia are SPL measurements, we are looking at threshold for pain for average person being around 130dB...which is relatively quiet I believe for .223 can?

just think about that everytime you shoot suppressed without hearing protection

Originally Posted By justbill: I have a question that definitely wasn't answered in the tacked portion of this thread: What amount of sound suppression can be expected from a 14.5", 16", and 20" AR? I realize there are many variables- the can design, wear/age, ETC. But generally speaking, how much is the report reduced? If you want specifics I'm personally interested in the YHM Phantom mounted on a 16" barrel. I use 55, 62, and 77-grain loads. Yankee Hill says the Phantom "reduced muzzle noise by up to 35 decibels." Okay, that's a start. According to these guys a gun shot is around 140 db. So if we subtract the advertised 35 db maximum, we're still at a sound level around a gas mower, motorcycle or snowmobile. Huh? Why would it even be worth suppressing if that's all you get? What am I missing?

Impulse sounds are NOT the same as continuous noise, like a chainsaw or a lawnmower.

Impulse sounds last less than one second typically.  Suppressed shots have a much shorter duration.  This can be easily understood when you think of an unsuppressed gunshot sounding like BOOOOOOOOOOM, and a suppressed gunshot sounding like BOOM.  

People DO have different levels of hearing loss.  This is obvious.  A sound meter takes your life experiences regarding hearing loss out of the equation.  That means that dB reduction numbers show you a true picture of the loudest noise a gunshot (suppressed or unsuppressed) makes.  

If you have a 16 year old kid and a Vietnam combat veteran taking an impulse sound test, the kid will hear WAY better than the combat vet.  Also, standing out in a huge open space shooting silencers will NOT give you any clear idea of how loud it really is.  Wide open spaces don't reflect sound, and that means that even a poor silencer may sound as quiet as a good silencer.  

Now to answer your question.

The average 14.5 inch barreled weapons will produce a sound signature of around 164-165dB UNSUPPRESSED.  The 35dB listed is MAX suppression, and that probably means that they got SOME of the shots in the string to measure at 130 or so.  You can expect the low 130's out of quality 223 silencers.

Look at my website to learn more.

Website
 

What about a list of manufacturers and products with pros and cons, limitations, uses, etc.

In general something like the chart for the AR-15 manufacturers.

Im not trying to be a smart ass or anything. But why are supressors so damn expensive?? I mean its essentially like a muffler for a car. and those cost less than $100.

Originally Posted By grndy27: Im not trying to be a smart ass or anything. But why are supressors so damn expensive?? I mean its essentially like a muffler for a car. and those cost less than $100.

They are also typically required by law, do not require a special tax, are in use by everyone, and don't need to have an unobstructed path for a bullet.

Can someone touch on using a 30 cal supressor on 22's and 223;s

Someone said it could be done but I dont trust anything i hear in a gunstore

Originally Posted By Impact-Vector: Can someone touch on using a 30 cal supressor on 22's and 223;s Someone said it could be done but I dont trust anything i hear in a gunstore

It's address (somewhat) in the FAQ.  I'll add some more info to address it further but the short answer is "Yes and No"

Yes, you can use .30 cal on anything smaller than .30.  In fact, some say you get more volume out of a .30 can and will use it to supress .223 and others.

The things about .22's is they are dirty and not good in a can designed for center fire rounds.

I'll post more later.

I live in Texas and I am wondering since I know we can supress an AR-15 and other rifels. Cna we also supress pistols here too?

Originally Posted By GreenGhost5: I live in Texas and I am wondering since I know we can supress an AR-15 and other rifels. Cna we also supress pistols here too?

It's not the item that is being suppressed that is restricted....it's the item that is doing the suppressing.  So yes, unless there is some obscure state law.  As far as the ATF and NFA laws are concerned they only restrict/control the NFA item.

Is the stamped Form (1 or 4), or copy, required to be in your possession when using and transporting a supprssor?  

Thanks!

Originally Posted By JThomas: Is the stamped Form (1 or 4), or copy, required to be in your possession when using and transporting a supprssor?   Thanks!

Others have chimed in on this before and gave both answers (actually several variations of the answers).

I think it would be wise to have a good laminated color copy with you where ever you go.  Some have said only an original would do...others said a color copy is a no-no (because of the tax stamp being a "reproduction").  Personally, I think having all your paperwork with you and the NFA item at all times is the only way to go.  There are plenty of people out there who think all SBR,SBS,Suppressors are Illegal.  Having the paper work with you should convince them otherwise.......should being the key word.

I have a SBR and keep a very small and ledgible, luggage tag size, reproduction with the gun and keep the original locked in a safe.

I was just wondering if the paperwork was required for a suppressor since I could not find anything on it.

Thanks.

Originally Posted By Friiguy: What about a list of manufacturers and products with pros and cons, limitations, uses, etc. In general something like the chart for the AR-15 manufacturers.

+1 also maybe list of dealers that sell suppressors too.

Kinda a weird question but If I had a barrel that was 10.5in's long and a suppressor that was 5.5in's long... could I put them both on my ar15 & have a legal 16in barreled rifle?  I do not own either so I don't plan on doing it... just curious if it would be legal.

Originally Posted By jdmae86: Kinda a weird question but If I had a barrel that was 10.5in's long and a suppressor that was 5.5in's long... could I put them both on my ar15 & have a legal 16in barreled rifle?  I do not own either so I don't plan on doing it... just curious if it would be legal.

If the suppressor is permanently attached to the barrel, welded, and is at least 16" OA, then you would only have to pay for one tax stamp.  But I could be wrong.  

I dont know about making a suppressed barrel yourself.

Kansas can now be moved to one of the states the allow suppressors. Starting 1 July 08 they will be legal to possess.

With a $200 federal tax, an additional local tax (Louisiana), and the requirement of a Class III license for the transfer, owning - and better yet, reselling - suppressors is impractical, to say the least. Does anyone know of a way to streamline the process for a retail shop?

I have been thinking about getting a surpressor for quite some time now and have been reading up on them also. I am curious about how fast they get dirty and how hard it is to clean them. I have a HK USP CT, I am looking at getting a AAC Evolution for it. First off, does anyone have any personal experience with the Evolution or recommendations of a different can? Regarding surpressors in general, what are some thoughts about owning one? It would be nice to hear from some owners or from some guys who have "been there, done that". Thanks for the help.

Missouri is now on the list as well. Starting Aug. 28, 2008.

Being from Missouri and never having shopped for a suppressor before, in addition to adding MO to the list of suppressor okay states (you may want to mention that missouri requires an FFL to own a suppressor), maybe add a list of companies which make/sell them?

What about cleaning cans?

I have a 22LR can (Mite) that comes apart for cleaning.

but my 9mm (AAC Evo 9) and 308 (Soundtech Blackstar) do not.



I have read that soaking in Ed's Red will do the trick, and I have read that there is no need to clean.

Thoughts, impressions, data?

I clean my pistol cans with hot soapy water and dry them in the oven.  Seems to work well.

Centerfire rifle cans almost never require cleaning.  Only .22 cans require moderately frequent cleaning, which can only be done on take-down cans.  Any all-stainless can can be soaked in a 50/50 solution of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, but you have to take the resulting blue-green liquid to a HazMat disposal place, because Lead Acetate is not something you want to pour down a storm drain.

How do cans effect accuracy?


How finnecky are they?


If I get a can for an ak can I put it on my 5.56 ar if they're threaded alike?


What side effects/problems can I expect?

GREAT POST !!!
thx

Originally Posted By mesquitecountry: How do cans effect accuracy? How finnecky are they? If I get a can for an ak can I put it on my 5.56 ar if they're threaded alike? What side effects/problems can I expect?

Most people say that cans improve accuracy, as it is essentially a longer barrel

Is your AK shooting 5.56 or is it shooting 7.62?
If shooting the latter, I'd imagine it wouldnt be nearly as quiet with an AR since there is a wider muzzle for more gases to escape out of...

Perhaps we can update the original post with some mentioning of the form 4 vs form 1?  May even want to mention the various other Forms.


according to http://www.submachinegun.net/class3series.htm , forms 3,4, and 5 are:

Form 3 is for Dealer to Dealer use only Form 4 is tax paid transfer TO or FROM a non-NFA dealer Form 5 is free transfer to or from a goverment entity or from an estate in the event of a death of the owner to a lawful heir

I believe a Form 1 is for manufacturing a suppressor (as mentioned by the OP), but does anyone know what a Form 2 is?

I live in MN, a non-suppressor state. I grew up and have family in SD, where suppressors are legal. Could I apply the stamp and purchase a suppressor if I kept it locked up in SD?

Originally Posted By david_g17: Perhaps we can update the original post with some mentioning of the form 4 vs form 1?  May even want to mention the various other Forms. according to http://www.submachinegun.net/class3series.htm , forms 3,4, and 5 are: Form 3 is for Dealer to Dealer use only Form 4 is tax paid transfer TO or FROM a non-NFA dealer Form 5 is free transfer to or from a goverment entity or from an estate in the event of a death of the owner to a lawful heir I believe a Form 1 is for manufacturing a suppressor (as mentioned by the OP), but does anyone know what a Form 2 is?

Form 2 is used by a manufacturer to get permission to build and register the can.