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Posted: 3/6/2002 5:29:27 PM EDT
I was talking to my professor today who served two tours in Vietnam from December 1966 to 1969 with the 1/3 USMC. He told me that the NVA would take M-16 ammo (5.56) and use it in their AK-47s (7.62 X 39). I did not think this was possible but I have heard this before. Like before, he said it pissed them off because the 7.62 ammo would not work in the M16. Will this work? Can someone please try to chamber a .223 in their AK-47? Don't shoot it as it may be dangerous, just see if it will chamber and see if the bolt will close all the way. i already tried it in an SAR2 but it would not chamber in the 5.45 barrel. thanks.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 5:51:51 PM EDT
That is known as "scuttlebut".

During the police action in SE Asia many rumors circulated concerning US and Combloc weapons systems.

The one that you mentioned was popular. In fact, it resurfaced in a new guise after the Soviets began to field the AK-74. However, this time it was manipulated to say that Combloc ammo would chamber in M16's, but it would cause a catastrophic weapon failure if fired.

Ask your professor if he's ever been issued an M16 made by Mattel. And then research his service record. Perhaps he isn't what he claims to be?
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:06:36 PM EDT
I know he is who he says as I have seen pictures of him in Vietnam, as well as his medals. He was there the same time as my dad and my dad told me to ask him "stuff" about it and he answered it all right. He was an Amtracker his first tour and had an M-14 issued to him. Durring that tour he was issued an M-16 (no foreward assist) and to this day he still goes off on M-16s. I recently took my AK-74 and AR-15 by his house and as soon as he saw my A2 he started cussing and telling me stories of how "that piece of shit never worked right and I saw many men have their weapons jam while I was in the safety of my Amtrack behind an M-2." He also said he saw men die with their jammed weapons in their hands. When he speaks of this is eyes glaze over and he stares at the wall. He is not a lier about where he was or what he did but I do wonder it the round will chamber. Can someone please see if a .223 will chamber in a 7.62 AK? Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:18:02 PM EDT
You cannot fire 5.56mm NATO from a rifle chambered for M43 Russian.

He's probably relating some of the rumors that he heard.

He's right. The early M16s were designed to be used with a round loaded with a specific powder. The M16 went into production and the ammo specs were changed. The United States fielded a weapon with a round that it was not designed to utilize. It was also fielded without prior training, familiarization or cleaning kits.

Many soldiers and Marines dies because of the classic a$$hole slip-shod government way of doing things.

Now the M-16A2 is a fully developed weapon system. In the Gulf War it was more reliable than any other weapon fielded by our allies.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:25:36 PM EDT
Also keep in mind, that this was a very long time ago. My old man did two tours, and he can't remember a lot of stuff that went on back then. He is also very anti-AR, says almost the exact same things as your professor did.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:26:24 PM EDT
P.S. The US did manufacture 7.62X39mm M43 Russian ammo to be used by Special Forces units in captured AK's.

The US also manufactured 7.62X39mm M43 Russian ammo that was designed to cause catastrophic weapons failure. According to some sources that ammo was "seeded" into the NVA supply system. The black ops idea was to instill in enemy troops the notion that their weapon could fail and kill/maim them.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:31:42 PM EDT
There is allready a post about just this thing happing only it was about a 5.56 being accidentaly put in an ak-47,, when it fired unstead of the expected boom you get a thummp! of coarse the case instantly takes on it's new chanber size ,swelled huge and the round would rattle down the barrel if you were that lucky! and I just don't think so...my younger brother went through two tours in nam in the marine corps ,and is still to this day getting a check! (and he earned it) but we still don't take every thing he says as just that! and by the way there is nothing in the world you could do to him that would ever get him to talk about his tours, (operation fire storm, chu-lia ect) a part of him was lost in veit-nam and nobody can ever go there but him!
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 6:47:27 PM EDT
Lets pool our money, buy a cheap AK clone, one round of 5.56 NATO and settle this controversy this weekend!

Just kidding. Don't do this at home.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 7:45:08 PM EDT
I heard the same type of rumor from my uncle who was over there, but had to do with M14/M60 ammo being used in the AK.
Link Posted: 3/6/2002 8:12:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lucasf:
I heard the same type of rumor from my uncle who was over there, but had to do with M14/M60 ammo being used in the AK.



Wow. I wonder how those crafty commies figured out how to fit a 51mm long cartridge in a chamber only 39mm long.

They are a lot smarter than I thought they were.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 12:44:25 AM EDT
I heard a similar but much different (how does that work?) rumor.

I heard the issue was that the Vietmanese LMG was chambered for 7.62X54, and that they could use m60 7.62X51 in their guns, but not vice versa. However this seems doubtful since the 7.62X54 is rimmed ammo, and the X51 is not.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 1:12:59 AM EDT
B.S.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 3:52:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 3:53:31 AM EDT by natez]
This came up more times than I can count when I was in the Army. We even went as far as to issue a message saying that none of the AKs, 7.62 X 39mm or 5.45 X 39mm could reliably fire M16 ammo, although there was a chance that you could get it to go 'boom' once. It still kept resurfacing. This is one of those urban legends that refuses to die.

Now the commie 82mm mortar will fire US 81mm mortar ammo, and commie field telehones will work with US TA-312s. There is the occasional comatibility between older radio systems, and you might be able to get 9mm Makarov to work in a 9 X 19mm pistol (and you might blow yourself up with it, too). The Yugos made 7.62 NATO and 5.56mm AKs years before it was popular for their SF-type units. Beyond that, I don't think there is much ammo compatibility between old Warsaw Pact and NATO weapons and equipment(although I am sure I forgot something obscure and someone will point it out to me shortly).

Edited to add the Polish M17 Protective Mask clone that supposedly could use US filters and some parts.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 4:25:07 AM EDT
Natez is absolutely correct regarding the 81mm mortar.....But as for 5.56 to use on the AK...No. There was no such thing. Your teacher might confuse that the VC did make use of the captured ammunition by taking them apart and use the powder to make home made bombs, grenades or booby traps. They also dug up unexploded bombs or artillery shells to extract the explosive part to make home made anti-tank mine. Later on when our troop leaned about what they have been doing, we used to drop bombs with retarded fuse, the VC stored the unexploded bomb in their ammo dump and in the middle of the night....Kaboom!
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