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Posted: 3/3/2002 9:35:19 PM EDT
I see there have been quite a few discussions of which is better generally, so I'll try to make my questions more specific.

1) Most of the reviews or opinions I've read seem to feel the RR has a better finish. While I don't think this is the most important criteria, I don't think it is insignificant if you are building a collection, so does anyone disagree with this (the finish quality that is)?

2) Some of the people who have given the Bushmaster the upper hand have given it's adherance to mil-spec as the reason, hinting (or outright stating) that it is more reliable. I don't have any experience with these guns, but since the AR-15 has taken a bunch of criticism for jamming when dirty I think it's fair to ask: For those who think a BM is more reliable than a RRA - how much more? Are we talking a pretty fine line or a world of difference? I won't be dragging it through the dirt, but I don't want it jamming just because a truck drove by on a dry dirt road on a windy day.

3) Chromed bores - how much realistic effect does this have on cleaning? I certainly understand the military's desire to have it, but I clean my guns after every trip to the range. In that case will the chrome lining still make it easier to clean or is that only a factor when "abused" (can't clean it for days or weeks because you're in the field).

4) More on chromed bores - how much does this effect accuracy, all other things being equal (assume bench resting to take my meager skills out of the equation)? 1/2 MOA? 1/4? 1/8?

5) Trigger - is the trigger really much better on the RRA? This one seemed to be an almost universal belief, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 7:10:32 AM EDT
Hello, Quilter. I have both a Bushmaster/Colt Hybrid 20" and a Rock River Arms 16" Carbine (mid length handguard and small buttstock). Here is what I found:

1. Finish is close to the same to me, but as you said this is insignificant.

2. Both guns have never failed on me. I abused the Bushmaster and I abused the RRA Carbine (which is very compact) in the range and they're both very reliable. Abuse meaning, fire the guns and not clean them until 500-700 rounds later. I do this to test the reliability. As far handiness, I prefer the RRA compactness (mid-length Handguards/smaller A2-lookalike buttstock) even compared to an M-4 or the Colt 653/CAR-15. Of course, the compactness has nothing to do with the makers.

3. Chromed-bores, if you abuse the gun in the field like the Military does, then Bushmaster wins. If not, then both will do fine.

4. I'm not sure about the accuracy question, as they are both similarly accurate. I'd say both are 1 MOA depending on the shooter, I'm not that great of one.

5. Trigger, RRA trigger is smoother and has a better "click" to it. I can't explain it any other way :-)

As most everyone agrees, either gun will do fine.

Cheers.

PS. This is my first post since AR15.com was renovated 1 1/2 years ago. I used to be an active poster back then. Sorry it took so long to come back.

Link Posted: 3/14/2002 7:54:29 AM EDT
I plan on building an RRA rig some time soon; I would have to say that my impression so far is grate. Other than the grips, stock and mag release button I could not find any other plastic parts on the kit. The internal parts look well machined – I was planning on doing a little clean up work on those parts but decided not to because they look like they did it for me . The cost savings was good too, saved $200 going with RRA over bushmaster – that’s a savings of 23% over the total cost of the whole project. The bolt assembly looks very well machined and functions with ought any play in the upper receiver. So for an economy rifle that still has quality then RRA is the way to go. I may get a bushmaster in the future, but I’m hoping this little carbine project of mine will keep me happy for a while .
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 8:00:58 AM EDT
HarvardShark:
Uh, that's 'Quiter', not 'Quilter'. h.gif Guess I better change that to 'Quitter' anyway. 16 years of school and I still can't spell!

I had pretty much given up on this thread, but thanks for the response. I've decided to order the Bushmaster 20" Target model. I'm assuming this is what they used to call their HBAR model. I found a dealer who will charge me only the transfer fee of $25 so the price is right, plus I like the chromed bore. If the trigger turns out not to be so nice then I guess I can just order me a match trigger, and I can always just buy a new upper if I want a carbine or more accuracy. I don't care for the fake collapsible stocks, but that shorter A2-like stock you mentioned sounds pretty cool. Glad to hear about the finish and accuracy, that makes me more confident of my decision.

sulaco:
AIM has Bushmasters for $700. Was your RR only $500? If so, where did you get it? I'm sort of commited to buying the Bushmaster as my dealer has already mailed them his FFL, but for a $200 difference I might reconsider.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 10:13:12 AM EDT
the first match rifle I had built I started with a bushmaster complete lower and put the rra two stage trigger with a custom service rifle upper built by one of the rifle smith's that visit this board.
having another rifle built and this time going with the rra's complete match lower and the matched stripped upper. rra's shipped the complete lower minus the trigger to my ffl and the stripped upper and match trigger went to the gun smith to get done. it has saved me a little over $100 going with the rock river this time as $1400 compared to right at $1300 this time. both are nice.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 11:35:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quiter:
HarvardShark:
sulaco:
AIM has Bushmasters for $700. Was your RR only $500? If so, where did you get it? I'm sort of commited to buying the Bushmaster as my dealer has already mailed them his FFL, but for a $200 difference I might reconsider.



Note quite. I have the miss fortune of living in California so I can’t buy a completed rifle – I have to put one together. If I was going to go with Bushmaster then I would have gone with a Pre-Ban M4 16” upper with a 6 position collapsible stock. I would have ordered from bushmaster so I would have paid more doing that. My total build cost is $850 our the door, would have been over a thousand if I went bushmaster. I ordered my parts from www.sableco.net. I think in the end I did get a better deal and paid less.

Link Posted: 3/14/2002 11:36:55 AM EDT
If there was a Bushmaster and a RRA of identical configuration, side by side, at the same price, I'd take the Bushmaster. However, I own one of each and in truth they are of the same high quality. I wish my LEGP had a chrome bore, but not enough to go get a new barrel. Either rifle is as good as you'll ever need. The same can be said for Armalite, DPMS, and many other brands (yes, even Colt).
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