Hi all...I'm about to have some bucks burning a whole in my pocket from uncle sam, so of course I have to buy guns!!! :-) I'm wanting a semi auto .308 but not sure whether to go with a FAL or a CETME? Any thoughts?
I had a STG 58 and it was a great rifle. The only reason I got rid of it was to do a "trade + cash" deal for a pre-ban AR15. As for the Cetme, I've had no experience with them. The FAL is a hard charger. Decisions, decisions!
I've got to say that my fav is the FN. Arguably the most battle proven rifle on the planet behind the AK series.
Looks cool. Mine is a DSA and STG58 hybrid. She's just plainn purty and the quality doesn't get any better.
Mags are $5.00 a whack, spare parts are everywhere and gadgets galore.
On the downside she's heavy but you have to love that tool steel feel.
That all being said the G3 kind of, sort of fits the same bill.
I have both, I prefer the CETME because of the looks. The Stg58 is a little more accurate. The both are heavy compared to the AR15. Mags are cheap for both. I saw a good site on both rifles, I think it was cruffler.com
persoanlly, i think the FAL is a bit mroe gooder. a cetme is a cetme, but thier are low end fals for under 500,and hi end up to 1000. remember youget what youpay for.
Thanks for the input guys. I'm wondering about accuracy. My buddy has an AR10T with a custom barrel and SA 3rd gen scope...of course neither is going to keep up with it and don't expect them to, but wonder which can be made to be more accurate. Kind of a "Poor mans" ar10...lol. Also, is there a CETME board out there somewhere? Golly, I have to hate these decisions...WHICH NEW GUN TO BUY! Not one I have to worry about often..lol
I think you can probably get better accuracy out of the Cetme if you are lucky enough to get a good one or are willing to sink some money and effort into it. The Cetme's are a real crapshoot with regards to quality.
check: www.hk91.com for info. Go to message boards, they have several on G3 clones as well as general discussion.
gunboards.com has a good site on cetmes as it dedicated to the spanish auto's as alot of other good boards over there i get on sometimes.
I have owned several fal's and plan on getting another one in the new future.
here's my opinion on them both.
I do not think there's a better mean looking rifle than a fal but a cetme comes close.
I like the ergo friendly fal and the adjustible gas system but do find that it does need to be adjusted and I have had a few problems with one fal I had (imi m444).
the cetme I do love that wood on it. works like a champ love the delayed roller bolt system as you do not have anything to adjust as it does it for you.
used to hunt with a h&k91 and it would feed anything I put in it from 147 gr. gi stuff to 180 gr. soft tip hunting loads.
for me when I bought my cetme a 7 or 8 months ago I looked personally at alot of them and tried to decide the best rifle out of the bunch by eliminating all of the bad things before I bought it.
#1 mag fits in on a closed bolt without haveing to beat on it.
#2 looked good like new parts
#3 sights lined up straight
#4 when I hit the charging handle the bolt closed all the way home.
if it failed any of those above faults I passed and about 3 out of 4 did have at least 1 of those things right off the bat. not that a couple of them could be fixed at home but why not get a good one or at least give yourself a fighting chance.
took my cetme home and took it apart and cleaned and brushed all the sand and grit out of it. took it out and put 1 mag threw it to adjust the sights and another as fast as I could pull the trigger. both worked great.
also before I took it out had the trigger pack worked over so it was not to bad.
when I go look for a new fal in a few months I most likely will buy a original fn import gun. sear cut. but building or having one built is also a good low end way to go.
there ar ea few good smiths that build them over on the fal files board and will build you a heck of a rifle.
if you buy a cia rifle you will have a pig in the poke chance again. the only cai one's I do trust are the early argy recievered one's on built with the new l1a1 parts. but they do not show up everyday. imi m444 is also a choice but buy one of the newer modelswith the improved muzzle break. good luck
How do I spell releif from a rioting mob? F-N-F-A-L. I have a FAL built on one of the rare "GOOD" Entreprise receivers and it is a very good shooter that never fails funcion. Mine is going to Arizona Response Systems for a rebarreling and some parts upgrades along with a complete refinish, black oxide metal and green furniture.. A slick FAL is a truly beautiful weapon. IMO the FAL is a superior battle field weapon but they are not tack drivers.
Wow, there is alot of information toknow on these rifles..:-) Cool stuff, I never really thought about getting an MBR until I shot a friends STG, but then saw a CETME,with the wood stocks and hear it recoils little and isn't finicky about ammo. Thanks everyone for the info, I think I'll prob. go with the CETME, or G3 clone, but now my question is this. How many different builds are there out there for the CETME, ie kinds of receivers, who built them, etc, and who builds the best one?
Thanks guys, I know lots of newbie questions, but maybe I can return the favor on something else sometime.
There is a poor mans AR-10, it's called the Eagle Arms AR-10. Shoot an AR10, FAL and a G3 and figure it out. Carry an AR10, an FAL and a G3 (similar configurations) a few miles and figure it out. If Armalite can successfully market the Eagle line, I think the FAL/G3 clone market will go away. Not to knock peoples guns but who wants a clone of an obsolete, inferior design? You can't do shoot them in any competition, they aren't collectable (clone). Seem like real expensive plinkers. My .02
I will give you a hint on which to buy but its still up to you. unfortunatly century is your only real choice in one form or another and they run the gamble of being from down right real bad to very good.
you have the choice of a stainless or stamped reciever. ( do not buy one of those cast alum. ones) alot of folks for the most part are getting the stainless ones. I chose the stamped (hesse) reciever as it looked more like the original to me and if stamped was good enough for the h&k and cetmes its good enough for me.
but if I was you I would try to eliminate the bad one's. go to a shop thathas several to chose from or go to a large show so that you can handle 5 or 10 or 15 of them and you will get the fill of the bad one's and the good one's. cia did not make any two alike it will seem to you if you have a choice of a couple.
like any other rifle like the fal or cetme go threw that list and if its not right and stick by your views pass on it. I do the following.
#1 first get one with all new parts as most of them are like that ( why start out with dinged up furniture)
#2 check the mag well and see if the mag locks up right. with the bolt in the open position the mag should fit in and snap fine. if you have to really work on it or hit the bottom of the mag to get it to seat pass on it. also with the bolt closed the mag should still fit in with out beating on it because it will get worse when the mag is full but still should lock up with out much problem.
#3 check the sights look down them if they are not aligned or are crocked it will NEVER shoot straight pass on it.
#4 pull the cocking handle back and look into the bottom of the bolt face were the ejector lever rides in the bottom bolt slot. it should be riding very high into the slot and if it does not you will have ejection problems pass if it barely rides in the slot.
#5 pull and cock the charging handle in the rear wards position and then slap it and let it charge the bolt foward on its own (do not ease it foward) after it has charged look at the bolt to see if it has gone into the locked position and is ALL THE WAY FOWARD INTO THE CHAMBER. if you see a small gap and you should only see the bolt face and no gap. to check this push on the close bolt face very firmly and see if it locks in. if it does on charging you have a good one and if it does not you take you chances but if it closes with just slight finger force it may just need a good cleaning.
good luck and please look at a few first.
will post another response after this.
I own a few clones and let me tell what they are
#1 romanian sar1 ak47 type rifle
#2 rock river ar15
#3 bushmaster ar15
#4 cetme hesse
#5 h&k 91 made by h&k
#6 ruger model 77 in 7mm mag
#7 springfield 1911
and I could go on for awhile.
they are all clones and I don't see much difference in owning those and the originals?
as far as matches go the ar10 is not LEGAL to shoot in any service rifle match if you follow the rules. you may shoot them in the match rifle catagory but you will be competing with bolt guns and other tricked out rifles. why put yourself at that big of a disavantage.
both of my ar15's are top of the line custom service rifle legal ar's over $1,300 each and are not over the counter factory dcm rifles and if I wanted to build a armalite one next I might.
you might be able to shoot them at some local matches that do not care about the rules and thats fine as long as you are not next to me with a muzzle brake on it cause you will be asked by the range director to move on down to the end of the line by yourself.
your ar10 is a fine rifle but in a battle field situation my self I would rather have a fal like over 90 countries in the world used to own before nato made them change to the .223 and just ask the brits in the gulf war why they asked for the fal to be sent to them because they work.
and how about mags I would rather buy 12 to 15 fal or h&k mags for ever one of the ar10 mags and in battle the mud and sand is not going to make either the fal or cetme quit.
I have thought about getting a ar10 and most likely will within the next year but it will not be for matches or battle but because its a neat weapon like the others I own but a ar50 will be first in about two months as I think if you want some long range connection get one before the govt. makes them go away. and for the cost you might just be able to get both a cetme and fal for the price of the ar10 eagle if you shop wisely. good luck
If it's a choice between the century FAL on an imbel or the century cetme on a hesse, it shouldn't be a hard decision.
Are you going ready made or kit?
I have my FAL G1 parts down at Arizona Response Systems for assembly right now. I got my kit from DSA ($140) plus the refinish option ($40) which included new handguards. Now the USA parts, (H,T,S,grip, floor plate and follower) and USA piston came to $100 with tax and shipping. New Imbel upper receiver was $190 when we bought two. Gunplummer charges $150 for assembly and test firing.
I would recommend going with the FAL first because of parts availability and expert smiths that can get it working for you. You also can get a used or new barrel if necessary.
My friend had his first Stg58 kit assembled by AZarms and it shoots nearly as tight as his Fulton Armory Kreiger barrelled $2000 M1A.
Hang out on the www.FNFAL.com board for awhile. I'd suggest the G1 kit from DSA or a nice South American kit from Dan's (great reputation).
tapco is having a e-sale on g1 fal kits for pre orders $100 or buy one from harlan at fac for $120 and he also has the l1a1 kits at $159.
harlan is also running a deal on imbel metric recievers either $229 for one or if you buy two they are $199 each. you can always get someone to take the other one for that price. but if you build and that is a great way to go or at least buy a few kits and recievers. look at it like this if you buy two kits and two imbel recieves and put them away you can always build them later. but remember this if you put a kit together unless you already have the tools it takes between the reciever ,kit, us made parts and other things like getting them refinished in most cases you are going to be right up there with the cost of a low end dsa or imi m444 and yours if you ever sell it will always be a gun built by you and they are harder to sell. the fal is not a hard gun to build and alot of times a person close to you from the board will either help you put it together or loan you the tools also.
the other guy is right it is a easy choice if you chose between a imbel cia fal gun or the cia hesse cetme. it is a shame what they do to a good imbel reciever but you may get lucky and like I said before 3 out of 4 of any of the cetmes by them I personally have seen a few problems with. I chose the hesse for a few reasons if you pick a good one out of a batch you get several things that will happen.
#1 the original stamped style reciever which the h&k claw scope mount goes right on with out modifying the reciever or mount. the stainless reciever have a reputation of being to hard a metal for the claw mount to go on like it should and if it does it also shows how different the recievers are.
#2 if you get the stamped hesse reciever they come with the rear g3 type drum sight which gives you fully rear adjustible sights and still have the front elevation post. the stainless recievers come with the cetme rear flip paddle sight and everything is adjusted on the front sight and is adjusted with the front sight going up or down at a angle and if your sight aligment is not near perfect you will have problems getting the gun to shoot straight.
those were my resons for the hesse reiever choice. but before you buy anything study those guns first and do not just buy the first one you see unless you know for sure what you are doing. fortunately for me I know these weapons very well and 90% plus of the time can at least spot potential problems.
if you ar going to buy a cia rifle of any type I would suggest getting it from a dealer you know and trust that will help you if its not right. ask him if I buy this rifle from you do you send it back and deal with century or the whole seller or is it all on you after the purchase. go threw the good dealers. you can get a good one walking around a gun show but be carefull as it is a good avenue for folks to pawn off those one's that don't work because they know they will never see you again.
if I was you I would buy the imi m444 new model fal first or at least the low end dsa gun and maybe a cetme after you study and look at a few and learn about them first. jon
I know this is a 'pick' but NONE of the guns I see mentioned above are "FN FAL's."
FN FAL's are pre-ban rifles and start at about $1800.
Now the gun's mentioned above are FAL's-just not FN FAL's.
(You could do worse than again read what the "GreenLocust" has to say.)
Personally I don't let friends drive unless drunk and I don't let them buy FAL's below the STG-58 mentioned above by "pdm."
From DS Arms the STG-58 is $800.00 plus shipping dealer cost and is one of the best 'values' around in guns in general and FAL's in particular.
Based on reading your posts I figure you're going to buy the CETME regardless of the advice so I'll now wish you "Good Luck."
Hi all...thanks to you all for all your great advice. Lots of knowledge. I ordered the CETME today from a friend with an FFL, and he will deal with the wholesaler if I don't get a good one. To all of you who suggested the FAL or STG or AR10 Eagle, you all seem to have great reasons for your advice. I actually think I'll get an FAL down the line too, but went with the CETME based on the big picture of all the advice from this and other boards. Thanks for all the info telling me the problems to look for...I'm hoping I get a good one and don't have to regret the decision, so we'll see when I pick it up this weekend. Also, got the CETME now because I hear they are drying up and may not be able to get one with new parts much longer...and then again I may be wrong on that. But, in either case I'll let ya know how it goes. Getting an AK also from the same order, so at least I know I'll have ONE rifle to shoot in a week....LOL. Thanks guys, have fun.