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Posted: 2/26/2002 8:15:27 PM EDT
I'm not asking a ? here, but if you want to
some bullsh-- that will piss you off ! read on!

As a Vet with 10 years in the military, never
has any felonys or any trouble with the Law,
Married for 14 years, 2 kids, 40 years old,
work 50 Hours or more a week, try to go fishing
or hunting legally with my son, 12 years old,
when we can make the time, and try to spend some
quality time with him and then..........

My son's school calls me and wants to talk with
me....

That they have suspended my son for haveing
un-authorized reading material in class....

He had a Sporting Goods magazine that had hunting,camping, and guns in it.

They said that wrong for him to even think about
having such material, that no-one should ever
have a gun...

My son has had a weapons safety course at the
local gun range and has alot of respect for
the sport of hunting and the use of firearms.

and then when I tried to talk to the school
they told me that I have no place as a father
letting my son having reading material like that
because of the Coliumbine school.

Am I wrong here for being really piss off,
or am I missing something ?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 8:35:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 8:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 8:50:45 PM EDT by Wiggins]
I know how your son feels. Every time there was a shooting at a school that made the news I was searched. I was never picked on, I did not fit the profile for the students that would shoot up schools, so why was I searched?
(It must be the red eyes, they make me look eeeviilll)

Kyle
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 9:01:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 9:06:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 9:09:27 PM EDT by Prairie-Ranger]
You people must live in the most whacked out places.

In all the places I have gone to school (well, only two really, Greenwood, SC and here Yankton, SD,) I have never heard of any of the kids having something like that happen. It must be a city thing or something. Hell, in Greenwood my high school had a HUNTING CLUB, it was school approved, had a picture in the year book, everything. Here in SD many of the kids talk about hunting, paintball, etc. and no one bats an eye.

Most my teachers have been fairly neutral as right left-right goes. Sure, you get the crazy left winger every once and a while, but I have also had hunting/rkba teachers too. I had a favorite English teacher who I went shooting with once or twice in SC.

I personally have always tried to be aware of any slant in the teacher and the material and choose to disregard it. I had to take speech last semester and I gave a persuasive speech on the 2nd amendment, didn't get kicked out!

Well
whatever
I need to finish my damn homework now.

[edited to space out large block of semi-coherent text]
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 6:20:03 AM EDT
What the hell was he doing with it? Smacking another kid on the nose with a rolled up Sportsman's Guide? I'm kidding, of course, but there's an issue to be considered here. Was he doing anything with it that he shouldn't have been (looking for a good deal on reloading equipment in the middle of math class)? Was he reading aloud from it in Literature rather than some dippy love poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley? Somehow creating a scene or disturbing other kids?

Next question: Is this a public school?

Final question: Whats "authorized" reading material? Is it only books or material used in a particular class, or does it extend to other works even though they're not used in any class? That is, are kids allowed to bring in say, "Sports Illustrated" or "Rolling Stone" to read between classes, on lunch, or at recess?

Basicly, what you're looking for here is a public school making an arbitrary decision as to whats "authorized" reading material based upon the specific content/topic of a particular work AND that decision has no relation to maintaining peace and tranquility in the educational forum. Schools are not traditional public places like streets and sidewalks, so the school can regulate and restrict speech necessary to maintain peace and tranquility. It is, afterall a school and they need to maintain an environment quiet and conducive to learning. However, if there's no relation to keeping the peace in school, they become just like any other gov't body and can only regulate speech based simply on content in very limitied circumstances...and this doesn't sound like one.

I doubt the NRA will do much here, but if you want to put the fear of God in them, tell your contact at the school (the principal, I assume) that in light of cases such as Chicago Police Dept. v. Mosley, Grayned v. Rockford, and Lamb's Chapel v. Center Moriches Union Free School District, you believe their prohibitions are unconstitutional and you'll be contacting the nearest chapter of the ACLU.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 6:24:59 AM EDT
I sure would like to get that schools email address or maybe a web site address if they had one. hint, hint.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 6:27:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shaggy:
....but if you want to put the fear of God in them, tell your contact .... you believe their prohibitions are unconstitutional and you'll be contacting the nearest chapter of the ACLU.




EXACTLY.

Use their own BS agencies against them. (paraphrase of Sun Tzu, The Art of War )

That, and get your kid OUT of the public re-education camp system. Who knows what other propaganda they are slipping into your kids "cool aid."

And use this experience as a teaching opportunity for your son. Pull out the BoR, and read to him of the FF.

And YES, you are justified to be PO'd.

Link Posted: 2/27/2002 7:00:30 AM EDT
I'd have gone ballistic. I come from a long line of people who are quite expert at making points forcefully when the circumstances warrant it.

Years ago, my brother had a bully issue (he was the victim) and the school wasn't doing anything about it though the bully was well known to the adminstration. My mother grabbed a baseball bat and went to see the principal of the school, bat in hand, and ever so gently advised the principal that she was an Air Force wife with a husband currently on a year-long unaccompanied tour in Alaska, and she would do whatever it took to ensure that her children could walk to and from school and not be molested by a bully, or during school as well.

The principal got quite nervous, understandably. But the problem went away.

Being from that genetic line, in your situation I'd have become VERY loud with these bastards but not to the point where I was in any danger of getting arrested. I'd have also told them that their anti-gun agenda qualifies them as shitheads who don't understand or believe in the rights that are guaranteed in this country. I would have also ORDERED them to take a 'hands off' approach toward my son. If he wants to read a hunting/sportsman/outdoors magazine or any other non-pornographic material in his spare time, even during class, it's his right to do so and they're not to interfere. Hell, I'd buy him a subscription to Small Arms Review and Soldier of Fortune and let him carry them to school after that!

My attitude, stated simply is: I'm the father. I teach him how to be a citizen. The school is to teach him reading, writing, math, science, physical education, history, and a few other specific areas of knowledge, but are NOT permitted to push their liberal views on my kid and they are most CERTAINLY not allowed to be the ones to administer discipline. That's MY job!

If my kid was given detention, my standing orders would be that he is to ignore the detention order and would come home at the normal time, and I would handle it. (not unkindly, by the way.) If the school didn't like it, tough shit. I can take him to a private school if I want.

The job of the school is to educate. Nothing more. Information only, and NOT including political indoctrination.

The job of the parent is to turn their children
into decent citizens. That includes the responsibility for all discipline.

CJ
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 8:06:05 AM EDT
Pointtarget,

Your school has gone way over the top. It seems many of you should pack the board meetings and put the board on notice that they may need replacing. A call to you friendly NRA should give you advice on a legal avenue. At my kids school they have a buck pool and the library carries Guns and Ammo and Sports Afield as well as some other sporting and gun magazines. All politicians not up to speed on our needs here (state) have been replaced. Our governor got an A+ rating by the NRA. Now we just need to work on our federal representation.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 8:15:13 AM EDT
First off, i graduated from high school last year. I consistantly would wear HK MP5, cammo, Wilson Combat, .50 Cal, SWAT, and sniper shirts to school and walk around with the lastest guns & ammo tucked under my armpit or on top of my books where it was easily visible. I actually DARED them to suspend me from school as it would be an obvious violation of my 1st ammendment rights, as i was 18 years old. After that i had no more problems except for teachers giving me bad looks in which case i would give them even worse looks. I even made a gun case in woodshop.
If you go to the principal and raise hell.... and i mean RAISE HELL with him he should let your son back in.
if not, i would start talking to a lawyer.
Best wishes,
Mike
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 8:53:42 AM EDT
I agree with Shrike, really raise hell. Don't let this one go by, your son needs a lot of support here from all. The principal needs a training lesson.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 2:18:58 PM EDT
Thanks for the support,
He got suspended for 3 days,
and no he was'nt hitting another kid with
the magazine (I wish he had shove it up the teachers ass) and then maybe the suspension
would have been worth it. Unfortunlly I live
in Minneapolis, Belive me I want to move from
this damn liberal town, whats worse than the
kids school, I've check into getting my FFL
back after 15 years ( I had one when I was in
the USAF Security Police, turn it back in when got sent to Korea) and would be stopped by the
city because they won't issue me a tax license,
because the address would be my home address.

Thanks again.
Keith Fagan
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 4:23:31 PM EDT

Hey Wiggins,

How did ya train that yote' to wink at the camera?

Seriously, I think most of the responses here would make sense to most people. But here in Joeja responses like that fall on deaf and uncaring ears. Where not to long ago a black high school honor student was suspended for 10 days due to her bringing an African ceremonial spear to school for one of her gifted classes. It wound up costing her dearly on point grade average and a nasty mark on her spotless scholastic record. Several other cases like this have cropped up and the taxpaying public is outraged. Georgia has a zero tolerance policy on weapons and drugs. Leave it to the school boards to screw a good idea up.
This sounds like one of our local self-important idiots have relocated themselves and their nazi or taliban-like ideas about censorship to your fine neighborhood. These people think they are too educated to listen to common people like us taxpayers. If you want action you must go over their heads or go to the newspapers and TV. Send both of them e-mails about your story and expose these fanatics for what they are.
We do still live in a society where freedom is the rule. If they do not realize your freedom is being taken away then what will they take tomorrow?

Link Posted: 2/27/2002 4:34:56 PM EDT
Get out of public skools. I graduated from high school in 2000 and sure I am glad that I left! I almost got into trouble in high school because the $#%#$ing chemistry teacher told the principal that I was talking about explosives (I debated with him saying that TALKING about stuff shouldnt be illegal, its not like profanity or something) and the principal threatened to send me to alternative schools if I continue (I been there once and I wont go there again). I dont think I will be sending MY kids to public schools anymore when I get kids, those dammed admins treat words like guns and explosives like its a profanity and they instantly treat you like a criminal, yet they do NOTHING to those kids who choose to bully on other kids! You get suspended or even expelled for talking about guns, but you only get a lunch detention for bullying other kids... what a perfect system... Not only that their teacher SUCK, they cant teach and the class is more like a power point presentation than a class. If any of you havent gone to college or if you dont plan on going, my advice is, go to college. You learn so much more in college than you can ever imagine and the zero tolerance policy isnt as bad (well avoid campus housing if you like guns). Not to mention the professor is smarter than those "teachers" (I swore that my English TA knows more about math than most Calculus "teacher" in high school)
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 5:57:52 PM EDT
Sue.
I'm a lawyer, but not in your state.
Find some lawyer just out of school, one of the better schools is good because he will be up on the constitutional stuff. Not too good of a school, though, because you want him to know where to file stuff (I am totally in the dark about filing and service and stuff, the firm's secs take care of all that)..

anyway, new, so he is willing do do it affordably, and is not yet firmly in the political scene there.
Ask him how much to draft the "complaint" and file it, and how much for summary motion and brief.
That should either break the district like a bad habit, or get you some news time so a national rights org jumps in.
See if you can get it for under a grand, or ask to make payments. A new lawyer may let you do either.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 8:49:55 AM EDT
Public school sucks. At my PRIVATE Christian high school, a good friend gave a "demonstration" style speech in which he dissasembled and cleaned a Action Arms Uzi pistol. The Uzi sat in the teachers desk all day, till speech time. I used to read gun catalogs during study hall. My lacrosse coach was an avid hunter. I was always excused for opening day of deer firearms and spring turkey season. This was in the capital of anti-gun Maryland in the mid '90s!
Vote for vouchers,folks.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 9:08:52 AM EDT
oh my, reading a hunting mag in MN of all states!!! you must live in the southern part of the state. along with the other info these guys have suggested i would write a letter to the editor of the biggest newspaper in your area..don't let this die!
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 12:06:15 PM EDT
My uncle is a teacher in northeast PA. All the schools in the area are closed opening day of deer season so the student can hunt. I imagine so many people would be taking off anyway that it is not worth their while to hold classes. Sounds like a nice place to be. Its amazing how drastically different public schools can be from area to area.

Rocko
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