Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/14/2002 8:38:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 8:41:15 PM EDT
I think that would be the 230grain hydroshok for the best street record but FBI swat uses the golden saber so thats what I am carrying those FBI guys know there shit. It is also reliable which is very important and doesn't have too much recoil or flash.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 9:21:57 PM EDT
With a 4 or 5 inch barrel just pick whichever of the 'premium' 230gr JHP loads is most reliable and accurate (in that order) in your pistol and you'll be fine. I generally use Federal's Hydra shok because it gives good accuracy and I can get it in bulk easily enough but Golden Sabre, Gold Dot, Ranger/Black Talon or whatever are just as good.

If you are using a shorter barrel then you may want to consider a lighter/faster load, but you'd still be okay going with the above.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 4:37:36 AM EDT
I like to carry 200gr hydros (185 if necessary) to get a little more "zip" 168gr hydros in the 10mm............
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 4:57:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 5:56:36 AM EDT
Black Talons, 230grn.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 8:30:12 AM EDT
Corbon with Speer 200 gr. flying ashtray.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 8:37:20 AM EDT
If you live in an apartment or any where that overpenetration is a concern frangible bullets might be your choice. I have my Glock 21 loaded with 6 Glazer "safety" rounds and then with Speer Gold Dot. The Glazers come on a card board backed blister pack with 6 rounds to the pack at around $20. I've never actually shot this round in the house but have heard good reviews.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 9:14:28 AM EDT
Speer Gold Dot.


Link Posted: 2/15/2002 9:17:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By powderburner:
Corbon with Speer 200 gr. flying ashtray.



These are particularly accurate out of my Ruger Vaquero.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 9:50:58 AM EDT
Corbon 165 gr.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 10:01:00 AM EDT
I think it is really hard to go wrong with any quality .45 230 gr round
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 10:06:02 AM EDT
By Evan Marshall's police shooting records, the best "oneshot drop" is the 230 grn HydroShock, followed by the golden sabre. These rounds recorded mid to low 90 percent one shot drops to the torso. the old hardball was about 65 percent. The only round better was the 125 grn JHP .357.

Link Posted: 2/15/2002 10:41:52 AM EDT
I didn't realize hardball was that bad compared to HP's the hydros were like 95% right?
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 1:51:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2002 1:52:54 PM EDT by AJohnston]
In regards to handgun cartridges, trying to decide whether a JHP of FMJ is more effective against a human target is like arguing about the proper pronouncement of the word 'tomato'. One way is right for some people the other way is right for others. In the great scheme of bullet effectiveness, handgun cartridges (both FMJs and JHPs) are relatively ineffective. Handgun projectiles simply do not posses enough power to reliably incapacitate a human target. If you want to hurt somebody hit ’em with a rifle cartridge.

I know this will probably ruffle allot of peoples feathers but with handgun bullets energy means nothing. The only reliable wounding mechanisms are penetration and projectile diameter. Handgun bullets don’t posses the required velocity to wound through the transfer of energy. However, both penetration and projectile diameter are inconsequential if the bullet doesn’t get put in the right place. The reports put out by Evan Marshall, although definitely useful, should be looked at with a close eye. Too many variables are left to chance and no two shootings are alike. So even trying to compare 2 shootings with the same load can give vastly different results. Allot of the 'one stop shot' effectiveness has to do with the target. Is he a high dedication individual absolutely set on completing his task? Is he high on drugs or alcohol? Is he predisposed to stopping because of being shot no matter what the caliber? Allot of things are left to chance.

Additionally, the definition of ‘one shot stop’ as used in Marshals reports is frequently up for debate. Just because the target stops doesn’t mean he is not a viable threat or incapable of staying in the fight. One may stop because they have programmed them self to think "if I’m shot it’s all over" and will just give up. The fact of the matter is if the target falls to the ground and stops fighting after one shot but is still capable of doing harm to me he is still a threat. The bullet didn’t necessarily stop him his lack of dedication may have had just as large of a role in his falling down and giving up. Never the less, Marshall did have to have a starting point so I guess his decision is a good as any. My point is not to put too much faith in any reports whether they by from the FBI or Marshall or any other. Statistics are just information gathered and tabulated. They are a good reference point but not something to put all your stock in.

Choose a bullet that you have personally tested and know is correct for your environment. Make sure it functions in your gun and will perform reliably in every aspect. Feeding reliability, accuracy, penetration, expansion, etc. If it’s a JHP that fits your requirements, great use it with confidence. If it turns out an FMJ is better for you and your circumstances, super. Neither one gives you a significant advantage over the other; they are both just as ineffective.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 2:52:53 PM EDT
If penetration AND bullet diameter are what you want, you would be crazy NOT to use hollowpoint ammunition. Think expansion, even though it may not happen, it is a real perk if it does happen. Larger wound channel+good penetration= a good stopper
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 3:10:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2002 3:13:32 PM EDT by AJohnston]

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
If penetration AND bullet diameter are what you want, you would be crazy NOT to use hollowpoint ammunition. Think expansion, even though it may not happen, it is a real perk if it does happen. Larger wound channel+good penetration= a good stopper



Absolutley!! But one shouldn't loose any sleep or think that they are under gunned if they load up an FMJ in their carry gun. The newest whiz-bang, rock 'em, bop 'em, drop 'em wonder bullet won't mean anything unless the shooter is cool enough under pressure and has the ability to put his magic bullet where it needs to be.

Let's remember that handgun bullets aren't good stoppers to begin with. So the difference between an FMJ and a JHP is nominal.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 3:17:01 PM EDT
It's been said, I'll say it again...

Any quality JHP. My favorite is the 230 grain golden saber because recoil is similar to ball ammo and flash is nill. Some say that 230 grain is a bad choice because it is moving to slow to expand. This is untrue. I prefer the 230 grain not only for penetration, but for the fact that it is the bullet weight which any 45ACP pistol is designed around.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 3:33:16 PM EDT
I like the 200 grain Speer Gold Dot over 7.0 grains of Unique. Feed flawlessly, eject cleanly, good velocity, go where I point 'em.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 3:49:51 PM EDT
I CARRY 230GR CORBON IN MY G-21,IN MY G-30 I USALLY CARRY 200GR FLYING ASHTRAYS,BUT HAVE BEEN EXPERIMENTING WITH 117GR AUGILAS VERY IMPRESIVE,WILL GO THROUGH 1/8 INCH STEEL PLATE NO PROBLEM,BUT WHEN SHOT INTO A SOFT TARGET WILL BREAK INTO 4 PIECES,DOESNT EXPAND JUST SENDS PROJECTIES IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.AND ITS REALLY HAULING ASS.SHOT THROUGH STEEL PLATE WITH GALLON JUG OF WATER BEHIND IT AND IT PENETRATED STEEL THEN BROKE UP WHEN IT HIT THE JUG.I FEEL WELL PROTECTED WITH ALL THE AFORMENTIONED LOADS,JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 4:14:36 PM EDT
230 Ball is all I use and it will do the job.
GG
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 6:45:34 PM EDT
How is the flash from Fed. Hydro Shoks in .45? I've fired .357 Hydro's and the flash was rediculous.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 6:57:16 PM EDT
I like the .45 Hydrashok 230 gr. It meets the primary considerations-goes boom every time, feeds reliably in my 1911s, is acceptably accurate, penetrates well, and as a bonus, expands fairly well.

No particular problems with flash in comparison to other rounds. Most LE approved ammo is loaded with flash retardant powder. Some rounds will flash brightly regardless. For example, there are very few .357 mag rounds that will not produce a significant muzzle flash if fired in a snubnose revolver with a short barrel.

If you are planning to use the rounds for defense, you should consider the legal ramnifications of using a handload or specialty round. Unless a round offers a significant performance increase over a JHP, I would use a round approved for local LE. That would be much more defensible than a handload or specialty round, as it has likely been approved by legal review already.

Just my .02, YMMV. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 8:35:27 PM EDT
Here's the real answer: what feeds in your sidearm 100% of the time with no stovepipes, partially locked back slides, etc. THAT is the round to select. You will have to spend some time at the range and some money to learn the answer.

Secondarily, if you have a choice between several (e.g. 230 gr. ball, 185 gr JHP) that feed equally reliably, I'd go for the fastest JHP factory load I could find.

My $.02.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 8:43:23 PM EDT
On duty:185 grn. +p Golden Saber.
Off Duty: 230 grn. Golden Saber.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 9:21:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2002 6:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nohills:
By Evan Marshall's police shooting records, the best "oneshot drop" is the 230 grn HydroShock, followed by the golden sabre. These rounds recorded mid to low 90 percent one shot drops to the torso. the old hardball was about 65 percent. The only round better was the 125 grn JHP .357.




Evan Marshall's full of sh*t !
His data says a .380 HP out preforms .45ACP FMJ.
It's junk science.
My grandfather killed Germans with .45ACP FMJ, He said it did a fine job.

If you're gonna use a 9mickeymouse, better get the best HP you can find.
With the .45ACP, it' not too critical, it's already an big hole, even with FMJ.

I use HydroShok or Golden Saber because my Buddy gets it from the Sheriff's Dept. for Me, But I would not feel under-gunned with 200gr. SWC target loads, if that was all I had !
I know I can sink 'em into the A zone, and that's what really counts.


Top Top