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Posted: 2/10/2002 7:43:50 PM EDT
I am going to consider buying an AR 15, but have a few questions for the experts at this site.

As for "assault rifles" the AK 47 has the following good points:

1. Reliability. The AK is known for functioning under almost any condition.

2. Less moving parts. Heard that from a gun dealer (verification would be nice)

3. Ammo is cheaper. The AK's in 7.62X39 shoot that lacquered green round that costs approx $85-$100 per thousand. It also is "supposed" to cycle rounds with fewer jams than 5.56 ammo does in AR 15's.

4. AK's and parts for AK's are cheaper. I have heard that AR's cost $700 while I have seen AK's selling for $275.

As for "assault rifles" the AR 15 has the following good points:

1. Less Recoil. The AR's shoot less lead and thus less recoil.

2. There are many more accessories for the AR. A more "customizable gun"

3. The AR15 site has many more users than an AK site does. This would help with questions when they arise.

4. Fill in the blanks for me here...



I need to justify in my mind the reasons for spending 2.5 times the money on the gun and more money for ammo (possibly mags too) before purchasing one.

Also could someone direct me on a reasonable price to pay for the "best" AR on the market.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:50:29 PM EDT
I suggest you stick with paintball.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:53:13 PM EDT
4.You can hit a man sized target at 550 meters with an AR-15. Can't do that with an AK.
5. The AR is an American invention.
6. The MOST important reason.......because you are an American and have a RIGHT to buy one.

Olympic arms as one for under $700, and they make very accurate (but not 100% mil-spec unless you ask for it) rifles. My SGW Oly is a very accurate rifle, even though it's only a CAR-15.
Bushmaster's can be had new for in the upper $700.
Pick up a copy of the Shotgun News, or go to Guns America or forthehunt.com to see what they are going for new.

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 7:56:49 PM EDT
They are more accurate... go on... I'm listening! (hey spectre be nice)

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:00:43 PM EDT
Let's see.. moving parts on the AR- 1. trigger 2. hammer 3. firing pin 4. bolt 5. bolt carrier 6. buffer 7.charging handle. 8. ejection port cover.

Hmm.. doesn't seem like that many to me.

I have no idea how many moving parts an AK has, since I don't have one.

As for reliability, if yo uknow how to take care of the AR, you shouldn't have any reliability problems (but of course there are possible problems). Ammo is cheaper for the russian stuff, but I don't consider it much of an issue.
My 1911 cost more to shoot that my AR.

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:07:50 PM EDT
I have no idea on the AK myself. Could me more, could be less. You got me. I just thought of another AR advantage.

The ability to have more than one "upper" for different calibers.

I'm listening...

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:19:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:22:23 PM EDT
There FUN
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:26:49 PM EDT
Easy, get both

As far as manufacturers go, Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt. Otherwise known as the ABC's will always be good. I tend to lean towards Bushmaster. Rock River Arms is a newer company that I have heard good things about (I own an RRA but have yet to shoot it). I hear mixed reviews on Olympic Arms.

I don't owm an AK, but I have been hunting one and hear that DSA is the way to go.

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:30:38 PM EDT
have you ever handled an ar?
the egonomics of it versus the ak are light years apart.

you can move from fire to safe and back, release the mag and fire the weapon all with your right hand w/o changing grips. The bolt stays open on the last shot allowing you to drop the mag with your trigger finger while inserting the fresh mag with your left which can then pop the mag straight up and lock it and then slap a paddle which is right there to close the bolt and you are ready to fire with out changing your grip. How long would that take to do with an ak?

the ONLY thing that the ak has any advantage in is reliability in EXTREME circumstances.

I have an ak that never malfs and an ar that never malfs. The ammo costs a bit more, but you can carry about twice as many rounds in mags for the same weight with an ak.

Link Posted: 2/10/2002 8:46:11 PM EDT
i had a pre-ban AK, sold it. still have an AR

AK is very crude, stock is too short, not accurate. believe it or not, my ex-AK would jam every now and then.

AR: you can have numerous configurations from 24" varmint hunters to 16" CQB weapons. optics/sight options are also numerous from scoped, aimpoints, flip-up front/rear sights, detachable carrying handles to your plain A2 setup. the list goes on and on. more ammo selections, 55gr fmj, 62 gr fmjsc, taps, psp, etc. you can reload .223. if you get a receiver from NTW or Pete-in-NH for $100, all you need is a parts kit from J&T and your in it for $550.
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:02:19 PM EDT
The list of things that an AR is and an AK is not:
Highly accurate
Highly ergonomic
easily reconfigured from 16" enrty/tactical rifle to tack driving varmint special
Unbelievalbe array of accessories
very low recoil
Almost non-existant muzzle jump
Broad variety of ammo types available
Easily repaired and fun to work on.
Excellent sights
Relative availability of hicap mags
Relatively inexpensive web gear support systems.
Holds its value
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:15:04 PM EDT
Buy an AK. Shoot it. If you like it's performance, sights, trigger pull, then DON'T get an AR..

Given the same cash one would spend on an AK or clone of one, I'd buy an Enfield, or a Mauser, and a case of ammo..

Meplat-
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:15:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2002 9:17:42 PM EDT by 95thFoot]
Ya need a good reason?

Here are two:

1) No home is complete without one- or two. (They look so nice lying next to the centerpiece on the dining room table...)

2) Reason? I don' need no steenkin' reason...

................
Suppose I am a legislator. And suppose I am an idiot. But I repeat myself.
- --MARK TWAIN
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:18:22 PM EDT
Opinions are plentiful, everybody's got one. Here's my 2 cents worth:

First, do your own research. Sure, they're both "evil, assualt rifles" used the world over, but I've found that they are different animals, really. There are literally millions of AK's out there. AK's are tough, relible, and decent shooters (as are AR's if you keep them clean), but in general they lack the quality and accuracy of a decent AR.

Speaking as an owner of both types [(2) AR's (1-Preban Colt, slab-sided, 20" upper, 2-Preban Olympic Arms lower, Bushmaster internals, with M4 Bushmaster upper, retract stock, etc.) and one AK (Romanian AK-74, poly furniture, etc.)], I'll take either of my AR's over the AK in terms of overall quality and accuracy.

BUT, I gotta tell you the AK's are tough little bitches. The 5.45x39 calibered AK-74 is a sweet little shooter. It does nicely out to ~200 yds, though I've never tried it beyond that. All AK sights stink (same type of sights the Reds have had on their rifles since the late 1800's - M91, M38, M44, SVT, SKS, etc. did I miss any?). Nearly all of them need trigger jobs (lots of creep, takeup) and I severely dislike their safety's design.

Depending on who you buy from, you may or may not get a quality piece, so be careful. I'm in the process of replacing the trigger parts on my AK-74 due to trigger slap (cheap euro trigger group parts, replacing with adjustable US made trigger group). Otherwise, I've been well pleased with the '74. (Got it from Tennessee Arms about 3 years ago.)

I agree with what other guys have said, buy both - BUT buy quality. Like I said earlier, you can't compare a stamped receiver AK to a decent AR, that's like comparing apples to oranges. Stamped receiver AK's go from ~$275 to ~$375 or so. Post ban Bushy's (depending on the type of upper you get) are in the ~$750+ price range. There's are reason for that and it shows immediately when you pick up the two weapons.

For an AK, I'd suggest getting a milled receiver Bulgarian (be prepared to part with ~$800 or so). These are the cream of the crop in terms of quality AK's. They price out almost the same as a decent AR.

For AR's, get either a Bushmaster or a Colt and you won't be dissappointed. Not to say that the other makes aren't just as good, these are the ones that I've dealt with. AR's have good sights, easy to operate, and are capable of considerable accuracy. They are easy to put together from a kit and difficult to screw up (although, I do not like the way some of the lower parts springs are held inplace by the buttstock and pistol grip). You might consider buying a decent lower receiver, good quality parts kit and assembling it yourself. I've done it and it's not difficult at all.

Best advice - pay attention to what the knowledgable guys on boards like this have to say. There is a wealth of info available in the different forums that can save you a ton of headaches. Ask questions, these guys will help you out if they can.

Finally, go to the range with some buddies and try to shoot as many different types of AKs and ARs that you can BEFORE you buy something.

Good Luck and I hope this helps,
Jim


Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:24:19 PM EDT
.....cause chicks dig em!
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:27:18 PM EDT
BUY AMERICAN (AR15)! If you buy AR15, you are a patriot. You are buying American designed and manufactured gun. AR15's cousins M16 and M4 stand for democracy, freedom, and superiority. If you buy AK, you join the rank of Osama Bin Laden. :)
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:45:25 PM EDT
Here's the best reason:

The AR-15 is sexier than the AK-47??

and this is on the AK-47.net board
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 9:47:29 PM EDT
Here is five reasons as posted on a different thread
Link Posted: 2/10/2002 10:58:40 PM EDT
Great information from everyone but one guy and that a s s hole is LngBchAR15. Ill get to him later.

I guess that a bushmaster is winning the race. I think that the other points, at least im my application is moot. Both guns are extremely ugly and crude to look at at best. The AK was designed in by Germany in about 1935 and then the filthy russians copied it. The AR was done about 30 years later and I think they improved on the original design, the most notable design difference would be the ability to change uppers for different calibers which the AK can't do.

I think like most things "COLT" that you are buying a name and not a gun.

As for Mr. Prickhead...ie LngBchAR15, buying a gun and shooting it is part of the American tradition. I don't think that just because a butt hole like Bin Loser has an AK makes you a traitor for owning one. The Chinese invented gunpowder and the German Nazis developed the first gas operated assault rifles. If we adopt your theory then we are all commies and nazis just for owning one. If you think that way then move to china you prick.

As for the nice people on the AR15 forum, THANK YOU for your help in my decision. Any additional comments would be helpful as to what particular brand to get, but as before the Bushmaster seems to be the favorite.

Link Posted: 2/11/2002 4:03:25 AM EDT
Here is a Cruffler review of the Rock River Arms AR15.

http://www.cruffler.com/review-August-01.html
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 4:53:53 AM EDT


Need a good reason to purchase an AR 15



AR15....It is American, it represent America, Liberty and Freedom.

As for the AK.......Well, I let Osama Bin Laden tell you about it.

Link Posted: 2/11/2002 5:14:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 5:15:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DOH_RALL1:
I think like most things "COLT" that you are buying a name and not a gun.



From my experience, Colt's are very tight and accurate, and a great piece of workmanship.

I have had friends with Bushmasters, Olys, and kit guns with bushmaster receivers, etc., and they tell me that Colts are excellent and that I should not change anything on it.

Colt = quality.

You can pick up a new post-ban Colt at a gun show for around $700-$800.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 6:56:44 AM EDT
DOH_RALL1, I didn't say you are a communist. But whether you like it or not, you are supporting the communism overseas. AK is imported from Russia, China, and former communist blocs. Either some or most of your hard earned American dollars will end up over there. If you buy AR, you'll keep the money circulating in the US, you'll probably keep someone's job from disappearing, and you'll keep our economy robust. Name one country that issues AK47s to their troops and haven't fu*cked our country yet. :)
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 7:09:14 AM EDT
If you are just getting into AR, I think Bushmaster is a good place to start. I never experienced any problem with my Bushmaster. I also recommend Fulton Armory, I have their upper on the Bush lower now and it shoots much better than the original Bushmaster upper. I was never satisfied with the way Bush 16" upper shot. Fulton is expensive. Gun Test magazine gave a good review on American Spirit Arms (ASA) AR15 and it was affordable and it shot better than Wilson Combat and Bushmaster for less money. This magazine is non-BS and they don't accept advertisement from anyone. So their opinion is not biased unlike other gun magazines out there. Whether its Bushmaster or Wilson Combat, if the gun sucked, Gun Test magazine will tell you about it. I have seen negative reviews for ASA on here but I have seen positive reviews as well.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 7:14:25 AM EDT
Buy a Galil, get the best features of both.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:44:13 AM EDT
For design purity, or as close as we can get, buy an AR10. This was one of the only two weapons that Eugene Stoner designed wile with Armalite. (The other, the AR16, never made it to production). Other Stoner designs saw some small popularity in limited production, but the Stoner 63 is now being seriously looked at by the USMC.
Mr. Stoner stated that he did not see any of the .22 caliber rounds being suitable for battlefield use. He stuck with the 7.62x51mm for his designs for this reason. All of the old functionality problems were because of ammo changes and cleaning problems that never existed with the original design, the AR10.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 10:43:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LngBchAR15:
DOH_RALL1, I didn't say you are a communist. But whether you like it or not, you are supporting the communism overseas. AK is imported from Russia, China, and former communist blocs. Either some or most of your hard earned American dollars will end up over there. If you buy AR, you'll keep the money circulating in the US, you'll probably keep someone's job from disappearing, and you'll keep our economy robust. Name one country that issues AK47s to their troops and haven't fu*cked our country yet. :)



News flash:

1) there's no more Evil Solviet Empire. The war fell and the Solviet Union is a bunch of little countries now basically starving.

2) there are American made AK's now too..ALL American. American parts, assembled in the good ole USA.

Communist threat has now become Terrorist threat.

Calling someone a "Commie" is like wearing bell bottoms or having a Mohawk. It's 2002 now, get with the program.

As far as countries that use AK's and have F___ed us. Basically we blasted them into the 20th century and are recieving our aid now.

The AK make a great gun to have along with you're AR. Personally I bought an AR first because at the time I had the money. I bought the AK becaus it was a good deal, and I'm extremely pleased with both.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 11:09:13 AM EDT


Calling someone a "Commie" is like wearing bell bottoms or having a Mohawk. It's 2002 now, get with the program.



Excuse me......Did someone called the PRK a commie State?
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