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Posted: 2/6/2002 5:39:55 PM EDT
Bushmaster pre ban lower with a Colt M4 upper or should I go with all Bushmaster?
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 5:52:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:27:00 PM EDT
A Colt upper on a Bushmaster lower? They'll just argue non-stop over which one is better. I'd go w/a B.M. upper and that way they'll love eachother right from the start.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 7:46:08 PM EDT
Colt upper=$700

Bushmaster=$500

Bushmaster + 1000 rounds of Q3131
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 5:41:09 AM EDT
I debated this decision for months until I saw the price of Colt uppers.

I have a 14.5 BM M4 upper and with the carry handle, bolt/carrier, etc, etc. I've got about $300 less than what a similar Colt upper would have cost me.

Save your money. I'm glad I did!
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 5:52:30 AM EDT
The BM upper will not have the milled feed ramps, double shielded hand guards, or side sling adapter which are all standard on the Colt. The Colt is also available in 1:9 or 1:7.

When you add all the upgrades the BM will cost the same and it will still be an imitation of the Original Colt Design.

BM and others have been riding on the coat tails of Colt's engineering for years. The AR community should award the innovators, not the imitators with their business. If not for Colt's engineering efforts we would still be shooting M1s.

There are only two levels of quality, "the best... then all the rest" COLT
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 5:59:22 AM EDT
Huey:

I just put together an M4gery using a BM pre-ban lower and a genuine U.S. military M4 Colt upper. What I was going for was an M4gery that is as close to the original as possible. I went with the BM lower (rather than a Colt) because it is actually more like an M16 lower (no sear block, odd pin sizes, etc.). Of course going this route was more expensive, but I'm happy to have an M4gery that is as true to the original as possible.

I'd say if you're looking for a true replica, go with the Colt, but if you're looking for bang for the buck, go with the BM...

SAB
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:00:21 AM EDT
I'd stick with mil-spec. That means unless it's a really, really old Colt, Bushmaster is the one! No worries about large pin/small pin, large or small fire control pins, stupid screw thingies to take the upper off, etc, etc, etc.

Colt really shot themselves in the foot with all that crap! Much like Kimber is in the process of doing with their new "safety"!

Colt is trying to redeem themselves--they are taking a step forward with the re-introduction of the Series 70!!!!! No foreign plastic crap for me!
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:11:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 6:23:17 AM EDT by estoner]

All (99%) of Colt M4 flat top uppers (not A2) are Mil spec (small pin) there are a few large pin Colt M4 flat top uppers out there but they are not factory assembled. The large pin flat top uppers are rare and very desirable. The Colt guys will pay top dollar for one.

I have owned 1 BM M4 upper and 2 Colt M4 uppers. The BM felt flimsy because of it's hand guards. Plus with BM's history of barrel indexing problems I decided to sell the BM and keep the Colt.

You have to pay for quality. The market sets the price. The value of something is what the market will bear. There is no argument here Colt is worth more than Bushmaster.

Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:26:08 AM EDT
thanks for the replies, but I have 2 Colt m4 uppers, I dont have a bushy or the money to get one. I would like to sell or trade 1 of them, but know one is biting.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:28:02 AM EDT

BM and others have been riding on the coat tails of Colt's engineering for years. The AR community should award the innovators, not the imitators with their business. If not for Colt's engineering efforts we would still be shooting M1s.


Since Colt is itself an imitation, by your logic we should all be buying Armalites. And I think you meant "reward" the innovators.

I think the term that applies here is "fanboy."

Oh, what's wrong with an M1?
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
The BM upper will not have the milled feed ramps, double shielded hand guards, or side sling adapter which are all standard on the Colt. The Colt is also available in 1:9 or 1:7.

When you add all the upgrades the BM will cost the same and it will still be an imitation of the Original Colt Design.

BM and others have been riding on the coat tails of Colt's engineering for years. The AR community should award the innovators, not the imitators with their business. If not for Colt's engineering efforts we would still be shooting M1s.

There are only two levels of quality, "the best... then all the rest" COLT



So you beleive that Colt designed the AR15/M16?

Bushmaster service (and selection) is far greater than Colt. How's that for innovation. Personally, I use a Colt upper on my BM lower. That's because Bushmaster didn't offer a similar version (at the time). Take a look at the product offerings from both companies, multiply that by the quality of the customer service, and I think BM would win hands down. BTW, BM also offers 1/9 for the M4.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 6:53:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
The BM upper will not have the milled feed ramps, double shielded hand guards, or side sling adapter which are all standard on the Colt. The Colt is also available in 1:9 or 1:7.

When you add all the upgrades the BM will cost the same and it will still be an imitation of the Original Colt Design.

BM and others have been riding on the coat tails of Colt's engineering for years. The AR community should award the innovators, not the imitators with their business. If not for Colt's engineering efforts we would still be shooting M1s.

There are only two levels of quality, "the best... then all the rest" COLT


Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:17:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 7:18:06 AM EDT by estoner]
Zak,

When I read your reply the term that comes to my mind is "ignorant"

Armalite was design and the development division of Fairchild Industries. They did not build any production, just prototypes, and then farmed out the real work to Colt. We all know that the original Armalite design was not fit for the battlefield and it took Colt's experience to get it right through a series of "innovations" over many years.





"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:27:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 7:31:23 AM EDT by estoner]
SJSAMPLE,

Who designed the AR15? Fairchild or Stoner?

Who desinged the Colt 1911? Colt or Browning?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

bla...bla....bla.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:36:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 7:51:50 AM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By estoner:
SJSAMPLE,

Who designed the AR15? Fairchild or Stoner?

Who desinged the Colt 1911? Colt or Browning?

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

bla...bla....bla.



Actually James Sullivan and Bob Fremont designed the ArmaLite AR-15.

Stoner designed only two 5.56mm rifles in his lifetime - the FARC in 1973 (never produced) and interestingly the "Stoner 86" Machine Gun (in 1986) that may finally be going into production.

Stoner did not believe the 5.56mm was a suitable military cartridge and primarily worked on .30 cal guns.

(I' not sure about the egg/chicken business but think that design may have come from Colts'?)
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:45:08 AM EDT
There's about one good truck load of bullschitt posted under this topic but none of it really impacts "huey's" question.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:55:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:

All (99%) of Colt M4 flat top uppers (not A2) are Mil spec (small pin) there are a few large pin Colt M4 flat top uppers out there but they are not factory assembled. The large pin flat top uppers are rare and very desirable. The Colt guys will pay top dollar for one.

I have owned 1 BM M4 upper and 2 Colt M4 uppers. The BM felt flimsy because of it's hand guards. Plus with BM's history of barrel indexing problems I decided to sell the BM and keep the Colt.

You have to pay for quality. The market sets the price. The value of something is what the market will bear. There is no argument here Colt is worth more than Bushmaster.




Hmmm, another colt shill who will try to tell you that only colt makes the best stuff. Tell me again WHY colt uses non standard parts and sear blocks ?? what great innovation led to that ??
Tell me how the steel or aluminum or plastic is better than what everyone else gets. I know, it comes from colts own private stock of superior materials and is then "bleesed" by the holy pony. I guess colt 1911's are better than a wilson "just cuz they is an original."
Get over yourself.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:57:12 AM EDT
I have no comment on the Colt vs BM vs "whomever" debate.

It is, however, quite clear to me that in Genesis it is written that God created the animals each in their kind.
So there you go. The Chicken came first.

Problem solved...


Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:58:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 8:07:42 AM EDT by estoner]
I need the post count.

The Ar15 is just a caliber change Stoner did all the creative stuff......But for you anal types I should of been more specific. Let me rephrase: "Who designed the AR10?"

Not yet "truck load" but with your help we can get there

BTW John M Browning designed the 1911 while working for Colt.


Link Posted: 2/7/2002 8:04:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
I need the post count.

Not yet "truck load" but with your help we can get there

BTW John M Browning designed the 1911 while working for Colt.





I didn't know that John Moses designed the 1911 while working for Colts'.

Good info and thanks.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 8:23:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 8:25:09 AM EDT by M4A3]
Here we go again....

Why can't you guys answer the guys question instead of having a pissing party over who is better.

The facts are;

Colt is nice but expensive

Bushmaster is just as nice, if not better in the quality and fit/finish department and will do exactly what the Colt upper will do for much less money.

If money is no object...hey, I say buy the Colt...

If you want to save your money for ammo or a nice optic, buy a Bushmaster. IMHO, an all Bushmaster rifle would resell better than a Colt/BM hybrid...so to speak.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 8:41:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By estoner:
I need the post count.

"Who designed the AR10?"

Not yet "truck load" but with your help we can get there



Gene Stoner designed the AR-10 and AR-16 while at ArmaLite. (Both 7.62 rifles.)
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 9:16:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A3:
Here we go again....

Why can't you guys answer the guys question instead of having a pissing party over who is better.

The facts are;

Colt is nice but expensive

Bushmaster is just as nice, if not better in the quality and fit/finish department and will do exactly what the Colt upper will do for much less money.

If money is no object...hey, I say buy the Colt...

If you want to save your money for ammo or a nice optic, buy a Bushmaster. IMHO, an all Bushmaster rifle would resell better than a Colt/BM hybrid...so to speak.



That was my point, but I went with ammo instead of optics, so I could have a shooter, intead of a cool looking bat
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 11:50:10 AM EDT
You can have your colts you know the ones they trust us civilians with, i trust Bushmaster one there producing AR15's that in my words they equil with colts! i love my Bushaster and its mine. estoner i belieave you have all chevy's because there better. right.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 1:46:24 PM EDT
Ok fellas, we got alittle off track here. All I am asking is to get as close to mil spec would you:
A) Bushy pre ban lower with a Colt M4 upper
or
B) All bushy

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE RESPONSES!!
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 2:41:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 2:43:42 PM EDT by mk1iii]
Huey-
This is what I did and it's very close to what you have been thinking. My favorite set up is Bushmaster lower, upper rcvr, and carrier components, with everything else forward of the upper recvr being Colt. That's Colt barrel, handguards, gas tube, barrel nut, delta, etc...It's been a great combination. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 2:49:02 PM EDT
(Screw Colts' and their politically correct "horsey.")

Bushmaster upper and lower - good rifle - good re-sale - GOOD LUCK !
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 3:01:45 PM EDT
The issue of substance here is not who likes who better. The Colt Upper offers one distinct difference from a Bushy upper- the milled feed ramps in the upper itself. Bushmaster does not do it. As I understand it , these are primarily needed in full auto, which most of us do not have or need. To keep the record straight my M4 Is 100% Bushmaster.

Link Posted: 2/7/2002 3:15:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2002 3:18:13 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
I'm still laughing at SPECTRE's comment about Colts' "private stock of superior materials being blessed by the Holy Pony"...!

That was funny, man!

I prefer Bushmaster, but, this is AR15.com, so we're all bound to have something different.
If you have the parts, save some $ and put 'em together (I think you need special parts for this union, but, I'm not really sure on that).

Sell the "Holy Pony" parts to a Colt/Colts/whatever their name is this week collector, and get a good price to finance the Bushmaster parts is another approach.
I'd charge extra for the superior materials and blessing...

What the heck, just have fun and get out shooting!
Ask Bushmaster about their private stock and who blesses their stuff while you're at it!
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 3:40:59 PM EDT
I have an all-Colt M4 except for the Barrel...That I replaced with a Bushy Barrel. (Best barrel on the market IMO, and Shitpotloads more affordable than the Colt barrel) Had my lower been Bushy (and I looked for a preban Bushy forever and couldn't find one...now it seem the damn things are everywhere...)
I'd go with a Bushmaster upper for your lower. Whichever you choose, enjoy!
Pit
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 4:16:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A3:
I debated this decision for months until I saw the price of Colt uppers.

I have a 14.5 BM M4 upper and with the carry handle, bolt/carrier, etc, etc. I've got about $300 less than what a similar Colt upper would have cost me.

Save your money. I'm glad I did!



I agree.... I happen to own both.... the Colt M4 I have is all Colt. 1:7 is a bit better for the SS109 but if you shoot 55gr just get the Busy 1:9. The feed ramps don't really make a big deal unless you're going full auto. I've NEVER had a problem with my Bushy. It sits on a PWA lower and functions great. Might as well go Bushy since you have a Bushy lower.

Just my $0.02
Link Posted: 2/7/2002 7:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grock:
To keep the record straight my M4 Is 100% Bushmaster.



And my pre-ban is an ArmaLite AR-180 (Yeah, I know but this '180 has a picatinny rail flat-top, 16" w/flash-suppressor, 1:9 twist barrel)

My post-ban is an ArmaLite M15A4.

To keep the record straight....
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