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Posted: 1/26/2002 8:33:07 PM EDT
We always see these debates about the what is the best rifle to go into combat with. The design of the ar type rifle makes it a very accurate and user friendly weapon. One drawback is that it is a very high maintenance rifle. It requires diligent maintenance in order to keep it working properly. The ak type rifle is extremely reliable in all types of conditions with hardly any maintenance required. I know we live in a world where politics dominates and money talks. But what if we had a rifle that shot like an ar and was reliable like an ak? Correct me If I am wrong, but I think the Korean military already has such a rifle. I think it is called the Daewoo rifle. I think it has the barrel of an ar and the action of the kalishnokov ak rifle. Would'nt this be the best of both worlds? I guess the cost of changing rifles would be quite expensive. I am also not quite sure how good this Daewoo rifle really is. But I think it would sure be worth evaluating? I would sure appreciate any information.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 9:12:23 PM EDT
I suggest that you go buy one and try it out.

You can call the rifle a hybrid, but really, the rifle was produce to overcome a few Patents. You have to remember that Singapore produced Colt M-16s. The rifle was just a way of getting out of the contract and still producing a rifle.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 10:23:43 PM EDT
Such a gun has already been produced - the H&K G36. It is rumored that there's one in the factory that has 100K rds through it, w/o cleaning, and it's still going.
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 10:39:18 PM EDT
Don't forget the Valmet or Galil. The US military could have gone with either of those designs if they wanted to, without taking too much political heat. IMI is now producing a Micro Galil with an integrated picatinny rail system, so I have no reason to believe that it could not have been adapted to our liking. It's a rugged rifle, gets great accuracy and is made by one of our allies.

themao
Link Posted: 1/26/2002 11:45:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2002 11:56:21 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]
How much can you get a Daewoo rifle for these days?

Depending on how much they are, the M96 Expeditionary Carbine might very well be in the same price range. I was thinking they were. Although no AK based, it's supposed to be a great alternative to a AR.

The Galil is pretty damn pricey but might just be the best of all worlds... It won the Alaska torture test that some magazine ran awhile back, it and a few other AK based rifles were the only ones to not have complete failures to fire in the artic torture test...

The Sig 550 and 551 are supposed to be tough SOBs too. They've been put through some similar tests (they weren't in the one above) and have done well from what I hear. Expensive and hard to find as well though...
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 4:44:15 AM EDT
If your really looking for the offspring of a AR and an AK, Try a Galil
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 5:44:46 AM EDT
The Daewoo rifle itself is a very good weapon. Daewoo Precision Industries operates the government built factory that porduces them. They also produced M16s under license there. The quality of production is every bit as good as a USGI M16. I own one of the pre-ban K2s and I spent a year there in the Army, and I've seen them in use and abuse by the ROK. They work well.

It uses alloy receiver technology similar to the AR, along with compatibility with most M16 accessories, like the bayonet, bipod, and magazine. It utilizes an AK type gas system, with an M16 type bolt. The gas system has four gas settings on it. It has better sights than the M16A1, in that they are adjustible for elevation, but uses the same windage drum as the A1, so they are probably not as good as the A2 sights for match work. I replaced mine with a "Rapidex" drum and it works great. Accuracy is the same as any normal AR/M16. It has a folding stock that is so good, you don't know it's a folder when you have it extended. It's a good rifle, and really has some nice features that make it a good choice.

Price for pre-bans are around $1000+, or a couple hundred cheaper than an AR. Post-bans go for about $750+. Prices seem to be climbing just slightly faster on them than ARs, but not enough to really say it's a better investment.

The Daewoo is an adopted military weapon, and it has been successful. The ROK didn't produce the rifle with a mind to export in the first place. They just built them to replace the Army's M16s they had also built and were wearing out. The ROK AF still uses just the M16, because of cost vs requirements. The Daewoo's a better gun, but not so much better as to make the M16 trash. Sorta like the A2 is better than the A1. It is, but not by much.

As for a comparison to the Robinson M96, I dunno. I haven't owned an M96. For the price of the post-ban M96 you can own a pre-ban K2 folder and have a couple hundred left over for mags and ammo. The M96 costs almost twice that as a post-ban Daewoo. The M96 is heavier and the Daewoo is a military adopted rifle in service for many years. Not knocking the M96, because I down't own one. Just knocking their price tag (which is why I don't own one).

Economically, there's no way that the M16 system could be replaced in the US military system unless the new rifle really represented an actual leap in capability. That will probably mean new technology. As for a slug-thower, the M16 is still a great system, and launches bullets at individual targets about as good as anything else will. The cost of replacement won't be justified until a new technology matures enoug to use in an Infantry rifle.

Ross
Link Posted: 1/27/2002 5:57:29 AM EDT
Why are some of you guys saying the Galil is a hybrid between and AK and an AR? The only thing in common is the caliber. The Galil is like a 5.56 AK on a forged receiver with an FAL folding stock. The Daewoo is the closest to a hybrid between them, the G36 is more along the lines of the AR18 than the AR15 and I don't know that it has anything in common with an AK. But then again I've never had one in my hot little hands to take it apart either.

I had the K2 Daewoo a long time ago and foolishly traded it off. It was nice. It was NOT 100 percent reliable however, any of my Colt AR15s were more reliable than it.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 7:33:47 PM EDT
I think the points to be made here are in reference to "the dependability of the AK' and "the precision of the AR" as characteristics more than the "working components"... the Daewoo seems to have some characteristics of both but exceeds neither...
Guess that's why I've got both...
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