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Posted: 1/22/2002 4:14:26 PM EDT

On soft targets, (i.e. not helicopters). I mean accuracy and lethality wise. I mean I know they're lethal out quite a ways, but how accurate are they as well?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:19:23 PM EDT
easy mile.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:24:30 PM EDT
personally, I'd be nervous standing 3 miles away from the gun. But then again I don't know the ballistics info on that hellish round.

Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:31:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 4:50:11 PM EDT by STLRN]
M2 HB. on M3 without optical sights

Maximum (M2 ball) ....... 7,400 meters (approximate)
Maximum effective, direct fire ...................... 1,830 meters
Grazing fire ............................... 700 meters
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:46:49 PM EDT
I think in Vietnam a sniper killed a man at one mile with a scope he had fastened on by water clamps on a 50 cal machinegun. I hope I am getting this right.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:50:28 PM EDT
(NOT EXACTLY ON POINT)

There's a new caliber - .408 current bullet weight 440 grn shooting MOA at 2500 yards.
The round weighs about one-third less than the .50 cal.

At the present range of 2500 yards the .408 retains both lethality and accuracy and is therefore considered effective out to this range.

The present effective range of 2500 yards is limited by optics.
New optics are due from U.S. Optics in February 2002. At that time I believe the effective range will increase to something approaching 3000 yards.
A new bullet is also under design.

(With the rifle and new bullet the round will probably still be supersonic beyond 3000 yards.)

Others will be better informed than I but I don't believe this rifle (and shooter) can be counter-sniped.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:51:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrassII:
I think in Vietnam a sniper killed a man at one mile with a scope he had fastened on by water clamps on a 50 cal machinegun. I hope I am getting this right.



I do think that would be Hathcock.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:54:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By mrassII:
I think in Vietnam a sniper killed a man at one mile with a scope he had fastened on by water clamps on a 50 cal machinegun. I hope I am getting this right.



I'm no longer certain of the details (water clamps, etc.) of the incident but the "MAN" you refer to would be the "White Feather."
(Gunny Hathcock ?)

Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:55:54 PM EDT
You get a SPACE COOKIE for the name. Thank you I forgot what his name was or is
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:57:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
(NOT EXACTLY ON POINT)

There's a new caliber - .408 current bullet weight 440 grn shooting MOA at 2500 yards.
The round weighs about one-third less than the .50 cal.



That's the .408 Cheyenne Tactical.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 5:03:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 5:21:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
(NOT EXACTLY ON POINT)

There's a new caliber - .408 current bullet weight 440 grn shooting MOA at 2500 yards.
The round weighs about one-third less than the .50 cal.



That's the .408 Cheyenne Tactical.


and you be correct.
Seen the latest pictures of the military prototype ?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Gunnery Seargent Carlos Hathcock used a single shot from a Browning M2HB fitted with a custom scope mount and the scope from his rifle to get a confirmed kill at 2700 yards. IIRC, that is the record for a confirmed sniper kill.

-Troy




2700 yards? That's freakin nuts.

You don't happen to know off hand what the previous record for confirmed sniper kill would be do you?
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:34:04 PM EDT
Gunny Hathcock was quite a legend. There's a book about him that's a good read (and I forget the title, rats). Here is a biographical site:
www.marinescoutsniper.com/Carlos.html
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:56:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
Gunny Hathcock was quite a legend. There's a book about him that's a good read (and I forget the title, rats). Here is a biographical site:
www.marinescoutsniper.com/Carlos.html



The title is MARINE SNIPER. Very good book!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:26:54 PM EDT
Many of the sniper rifles of that era used the Unertl scope. This scope had no windage and elevation adjustments, that was done on the base. The special rings allowed the scope to slide forward and back, so that the scope was protected from recoil. After each shot, the scope was drawn back to its rearmost position by hand.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:38:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nasty_1:

Originally Posted By marvl:
Gunny Hathcock was quite a legend. There's a book about him that's a good read (and I forget the title, rats). Here is a biographical site:
www.marinescoutsniper.com/Carlos.html



The title is MARINE SNIPER. Very good book!



Read it last month, very good book!
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 4:57:22 PM EDT
Hey, you guys do you realize who these people are who are asking all these questions about fifty cal's are?? They're people from Dianne Feinstein's office, Handgun control ect.. They're just seeking info so they can take away your second amendment rights. First fifties, next is shotguns. I mean think about it. They're asking questions about range, lethality, pricing (especially the low end). Think about how stupid this person is to ask what the max range of a fifty is? They don't know shit about guns, they're anti-gunners. Don't give them shit. They want your guns.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:08:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By seamusmcoi:

On soft targets, (i.e. not helicopters). I mean accuracy and lethality wise. I mean I know they're lethal out quite a ways, but how accurate are they as well?



Heli's ARE soft Targets!!
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:11:29 PM EDT
Sitting bull, people like you scare me.

I'm sure most anti-gun liberalists are smart enough to look up the answer if they want it. I doubt they would want to spend time with the educated just to find an answer to how far a 50 shoots.

Give me a break.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:17:55 PM EDT
"Approximate Effective Range Of .50 Cal?"
how high you aimin'?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:18:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sitting Bull:
Hey, you guys do you realize who these people are who are asking all these questions about fifty cal's are?? They're people from Dianne Feinstein's office, Handgun control ect.. They're just seeking info so they can take away your second amendment rights. First fifties, next is shotguns. I mean think about it. They're asking questions about range, lethality, pricing (especially the low end). Think about how stupid this person is to ask what the max range of a fifty is? They don't know shit about guns, they're anti-gunners. Don't give them shit. They want your guns.



Hey Bull... did you BOTHER to look at who posted the question?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:23:49 PM EDT
Ok, think of this....

2700 yds, with a rifle shooting MOA.... thats a ~27" group at 2700 yds.

To get a confirmed kill at that distance is incredible skill, combined with the will of the gods, or luck.....

MOA at 1 mile... is a 18" group. .5MOA at 1 mile is a little under 9" group.

The last I read about the national championships is that they were getting 5" groups at 1000yds... from the .50cal bolt guns they shoot. That's roughly .5MOA.... and probably the best you are gonna get.

I would think killing a man sized target at anything over a mile is next to impossible.... although apparently it has been done. I wonder if the guy was deaf and blind... that would have helped... him not noticing all those previous shots!
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:29:26 PM EDT
The last article I read that tested one of the Barrett models showed it as just MOA. I would think that would indicate quite a spread at a mile. What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 6:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sitting Bull:
Hey, you guys do you realize who these people are who are asking all these questions about fifty cal's are?? They're people from Dianne Feinstein's office, Handgun control ect.. They're just seeking info so they can take away your second amendment rights. First fifties, next is shotguns. I mean think about it. They're asking questions about range, lethality, pricing (especially the low end). Think about how stupid this person is to ask what the max range of a fifty is? They don't know shit about guns, they're anti-gunners. Don't give them shit. They want your guns.




Well, HeWhoWearTinFoilHat has finally busted me. Yes folks, I AM Diane Fienstien.

Link Posted: 1/25/2002 6:41:17 PM EDT
I thought I smelled fish.........


Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:02:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Ok, think of this....

2700 yds, with a rifle shooting MOA.... thats a ~27" group at 2700 yds.

To get a confirmed kill at that distance is incredible skill, combined with the will of the gods, or luck.....

MOA at 1 mile... is a 18" group. .5MOA at 1 mile is a little under 9" group.

The last I read about the national championships is that they were getting 5" groups at 1000yds... from the .50cal bolt guns they shoot. That's roughly .5MOA.... and probably the best you are gonna get.

I would think killing a man sized target at anything over a mile is next to impossible.... although apparently it has been done. I wonder if the guy was deaf and blind... that would have helped... him not noticing all those previous shots!




Actually he had sighted it in earlier to the exact spot over a well that was frequented by VC. It was a turkey shoot. Read the book!

It was still a good shot.

-elliott
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:10:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrassII:
I think in Vietnam a sniper killed a man at one mile with a scope he had fastened on by water clamps on a 50 cal machinegun. I hope I am getting this right.




Carlos Hathcock put that Vietnamese man on the ground. He was riding a bike.
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