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Posted: 1/21/2002 12:04:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2002 12:05:21 AM EDT by FishKepr]
I know that carrying a concealed backup is a common practice, but this guy had what looked like a USP in a standard hip holster and a Glock in a UM92 crossdraw style on the other side. I must admit it kind of surprised me as I've never seen this before. Do many departments allow this practice?
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 1:38:59 AM EDT
I've never heard of that or seen it. It's definitely not a practice in our Dept. or anywhere in this county for that matter. I wouldn't have enough room for all my other stuff!
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 2:06:16 AM EDT
Are you sure that the 2nd pistol wasn't a taser?
The Sherriffs Deputies here in Orange Co carry their regular sidearm strong side and then the taser in a crossdraw holster. When I first saw it I was as surprised as you untill the Deputy explained what it was and showed me the yellow stripes on the "muzzle" of the taser. Those yellow stripes at the "Muzzle" are the only markings on the piece that show that its not a firearm.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:10:49 AM EDT
Having handled (and been shot with) the new Air Taser, I concur with Mordwyn. From the butt, end, it does look like a Glock.

However, there is a constant battle at PDs that allow back-up guns (and any decent cop will carry a back-up if allowed); the guys who carry back-ups are always shifting them around to find somewhere where they are comfortable, don't print, can be quickly accessed and so on. If a Department allowed open carry of a back-up, officers would take advantage of it and some would probably carry openly.

Next time, just ask. A sizable percentage (probably even a majority in most of the country) cops are gun nuts anyway and will talk about what they are carrying.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:18:49 AM EDT
A friend and I were on our way to Shreveport Louisiana once and got pulled over on I20 almost out of Texas. We were pulled over for not having a front license plate because my friend who was driving had been delivering pizzas the night before and hit a dip in his Camaro and had broken the bracket on the front that held his plate on. (It was all in the trunk).

The officer got out of his car and was wearing a black BDU shirt and pants, that were tucked into his combat boots. He also had on armor that was outside of his shirt and some type of black tactical vest. He was wearing a full sized Glock on his hip and had another full sized Glock in a cross draw holster in the vest along with mags and other misc. gear in all of the pockets. Also, printed in big white block letters was the word POLICE on the back of the vest. This guy looked like he had just stepped off the SWAT team and started pulling people over on the highway.

I was kind of laughing inside when I first saw him, then I noticed that a van with dark tinted windows had pulled up behind his car and parked shortly after he had pulled us over. At this point I got a little nervous because I could definately see at least two other people in the van.

He proceeded to get my friend out of the car and began questioning him at the rear of the car while he asked me to stay inside. My friend then opened the trunk and showed him the broken license plate bracket. The officer then asked my friend to stand by the front fender of the patrol car while he asked me some questions.

He asked me to open my door and attempted some sort of interrogation.

Cop- Where are you two heading today?

Me- Shreveport.

Cop- What are you two planning on doing in Shreveport?

Me- What do two twenty something year old guys from Texas usually do in Shreveport?

Cop- Doin a little gambling, huh?

Me- Yes sir.

Cop- Well, do you have any drugs in the car?

Me- Not to my knowledge.

Cop- No marijuana or anything?

Me- Not to my knowledge.

Cop- Not even just a little bag or a joint?

Me- Not to my knowledge.

Cop- If you have just a little marijuana at all and you are honest with me, I'll let you just dump it out on the side of the road and send you on your way.

Me- To my knowledge there are no drugs in the car.

Cop- What about weapons? Do you have any weapons?

Me- Yes sir, I have a knife in my pocket.

Cop- No, I'm talking about guns. All I'm looking for are guns and drugs.

Me- No sir, I'm not armed.

Cop- What about your friend?

Me- Not to my knowledge.


That was the end of the conversation. It was the wierdist traffic stop I have ever been involved in. After that he let us both go without even writing a warning for anything. He just walked back to his car and told my buddy, "Thanks for your time. You're free to go", and got in his car. He never asked for license or insurance from either of us.

That is the only cop I've ever seen in person wearing two guns.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:19:13 AM EDT
Back-ups must be concealed here in NY , this guy must haave been a cowboy.

Carrying the back-up concealed is the best way that way the other guy does'nt quite know all of your cards.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:27:43 AM EDT
He was either a cowboy or based on his style of dress, trying to be the Terminator. Did he say "if you come back this way again... I'LL BE BACK!"???
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:50:24 AM EDT
How would you do good weapon retention on two openly exposed weapons?
My dept. policy is that backup weapon must be concealed.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 10:14:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2002 10:16:36 AM EDT by FishKepr]
Oh, a Taser. I didn't think of that. It that's what it was it sure looked like a Glock.

Natez,
I would have asked, but I was dealing with my toddler at the time. We're going back to the same park tonight though, if he's there again I'll ask.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 12:17:38 PM EDT
Something like this? M26 Advanced Taser:



SeMPer Fi

Link Posted: 1/21/2002 12:49:03 PM EDT
When I used to go to Alpine range south of Fort Worth I remember seeing a range officer who carried 3 handguns. One strong side belt holster, one in SOB holster, and one in a crossdraw shoulder holster!
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:26:29 PM EDT
Any older Chicago cops around here? It seems like they use to be able to carry a second handgun of equal or greater caliber to the issued firearm. Now I'm talking about the old days, back in the 80's.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 6:28:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bunghole:
When I used to go to Alpine range south of Fort Worth I remember seeing a range officer who carried 3 handguns. One strong side belt holster, one in SOB holster, and one in a crossdraw shoulder holster!



and those are only the ones you saw!
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:04:22 PM EDT
That's a really cool story ponyboy. Creepy.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:19:38 PM EDT
Any harm in asking? I know most cops are not the most friendly, but whats the harm in asking what he is carrying? He works for the citizens.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 8:31:40 PM EDT
Hey Natez, tell us what is was like to get hit with the Tazer -- I have been thinking of getting my wife one, and want to know if they really work.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 3:11:32 AM EDT
First off, don't confuse the Taser and the new Ait Taser. They work on different principles.

The old Taser was a pain compliance weapon. It used darts or was a contact weapon. It means that you either have to be very close, or you have to hit with both darts. It was not always effective (remember, they used it on Rodney King and it didn't even slow him down a bit).

The new one is effective, but both darts have to make contact with their target. If they don't both hit (and have more than a few inches of separation) they won't work.

If they do hit, the current overrides the central nervous system, which is much more effective. You automatically go into a fetal position on the ground, screaming like a little girl. The pain is just a side effect, but it ain't fun.

As far as a personal defense option, I do not think the technology is mature enough, yet. If a dart misses, you can pop out the cartridge and use it as a contact weapon, but it just isn't foolproof enough yet for personal defense. I think that it is currently only suited for limited police tactical applications, when you have other people present covering with other use-of-force options.

For personal defense, I would stick with a good pepper spray backed up with a quality handgun.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 5:17:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By grimshaw:
Any harm in asking? I know most cops are not the most friendly, but whats the harm in asking what he is carrying? He works for the citizens.



What's the cop going to do? Shoot him with it?

I've never had a bad experience with a cop. I never enjoy getting traffic tickets, but if I'm polite, they are polite. I would ask what he is carrying.

Av.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:09:56 AM EDT
Around here, it would make them nervous if you start asking about their guns, I would think.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 7:25:36 AM EDT
I once asked a local city cop if he was carrying a Glock 17 as I saw him walking around the pawn shop I was scouting out. His reply was something to the effect of, "It's a 9mm, I don't know what model. I don't get into that gun stuff".

I found it kind of odd that he didn't even know what model his own gun was.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:47:30 AM EDT
I was in Chicago last year and I saw a uniformed officer there carrying two side arms as mentioned in the first post.. The one in the crossdraw holster could have been a taser, but at first glance it looked like a regular pistol.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 12:08:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Cop- Where are you two heading today?

Me- Shreveport.




I've had cops ask me that & I REFUSE to give them ANY sort of answer!!! I even told one (I was really pissed) I was "headed over to see his wife"!!! And yes, I still got the ticket!!! But he didn't ask me any more questions. >>evil grin<<
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 1:23:56 PM EDT
Ponyboy;
That, my brother, was a "drugs/guns" stop. The gear this officer was wearing, plus the "gunship" van that pulled up makes me believe these guys were looking for something or someone out of the ordinary and you or your vehicle may have come close enough to justify being checked out. On the other hand, they tend to do things a little differently in Tx. and La., so maybe this is s.o.p. for their interdiction units...I kinda doubt it though.

BobCole;
Your response is certainly within your lawful rights, and I have no more desire to see this nation turned into a police state than anyone. It is, however, just as easy to talk...without "saying" anything...if you work at it a little. There is no requirement for you to be polite to an officer, but I will say that...with almost 30yr. experience...the vast majority of people who go to jail, get multiple citations, have major confrontations, etc. with LEO.s are mainly guilty of P.O.P. (Pissin' Off the PO-lice) Granted, I have worked with a few guys who would have the Pope trying to choke them out in about 30sec. on a traffic stop. Personally, my response would be something like "Really nice day isn't it officer". :)

Link Posted: 1/22/2002 7:43:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

Cop- Where are you two heading today?

Me- Shreveport.




I've had cops ask me that & I REFUSE to give them ANY sort of answer!!! I even told one (I was really pissed) I was "headed over to see his wife"!!! And yes, I still got the ticket!!! But he didn't ask me any more questions. >>evil grin<<




I'm with you Bob. Unless it is made clear that I'm a suspect of something, (which I'm not,hence the arrogance) I consider it a breech of freedom to ask. I've been stopped and asked that before. I just look at the cop quizzically as if I needed a permission slip or something.Like I was really going to invite him out for a drive around the neighborhood drinking beer and shooting stop signs! Ha Ha! (Its a joke!)PS, I'll be sober 9 years in Sept.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 10:52:53 PM EDT
I took my kid back to the same place, but the same cop wasn't there. If my memory is accurate, that M26 sure looked like what I saw.
Link Posted: 1/30/2002 11:40:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2002 11:42:54 AM EDT by Mordwyn]
I can concur with Natez's statement that they are not 100% reliable. I have a friend who was working the sound board at Disney's Pleasure Island Nightclub complex. He was working New Years and saw a guy who was so drunk that he decided to fight with security. This went on for a few minutes untill the Orange Co Sherriff Deptuties arrived and they proceded to tazer him.....it did absolutely nothing. It took a PR-24 to the knee and a 5 man pile-on to get him under controll
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