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Posted: 1/18/2002 5:10:52 PM EDT
Of every gun out there rifle pistol whaterer, which gun do you feel is the best.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:16:14 PM EDT
that's a toughie... there are so many different applications and 100^x as many designs.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:19:02 PM EDT
Well, for stopping power I'd have to go with the 155mm Howitzer in a 36-inch barrel.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:22:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
Well, for stopping power I'd have to go with the 155mm Howitzer in a 36-inch barrel.



Sawed off artillery?????


there is no one best, it is what is best for the task at hand, the cost, and the operator.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:23:46 PM EDT
I like the 16" deck guns on the missouri.....but I think the germans made a couple bigger ones during ww2.........
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:27:14 PM EDT
The one you have with you when the s*it hits the fan!!!

Cg..
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:01:46 PM EDT
A Walther P99 in 40SW.

I love the gun.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:06:54 PM EDT
I've owned Beretta's, Glocks, SIGS, and more recently, a SA 1911A1 stainless. I know there are a lot of 1911a1 fans out there, but I have NEVER seen one function as reliably as my SIG P226. I am absolutely amazed at the types of ammo this thing will digest without a hiccup. My Glock 22 is very reliably, and my old 92FS WOULD HAVE BEEN reliable if the firing pin didn't keep breaking and the finish didn't come off the frame.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:12:19 PM EDT
I would have to say that its a tie. HK USP45 and Bushmaster AR. Always go bank when I pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:16:27 PM EDT
Erma SLR 100. Just try to come within a mile of me :)
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:22:59 PM EDT
Anything made by LORCIN or OLYMPIC ARMS (same lack of quality)
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:30:06 PM EDT
much as i hate to say it, i believe the ak series rifle is probably the small arms winner. more of them than any other. they allways work, under any conditions. most people in third world countries that use them are not too well educated, and probably live in huts. maintenance? hell,they probably use whatever is handy to do the job, if they maintain them at all. (camel grease?) regardless, ak's still work, allways. for us more civilized high tech types, the ar is a better gun.
willy
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:36:26 PM EDT
all of them
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:38:07 PM EDT
Carbine: AK-47 and derivatives
Rifle (semi): FN-FAL
Rifle (bolt): Winchester Model 70
Shotgun: Remington 870
Pistol: 1911

I agree with (to paraphrase) "the one you have when the shit hits the fan".

JAW

Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:55:11 PM EDT
The one in my hand....

SRM
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:08:52 PM EDT
If you have to ask it is to late. But we could leave it on your tomb stone.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:10:07 PM EDT
The one you are practiced with and have confidence with.

There are too many "perfect" choices (or even imperfect ones for that matter); pick a rifle/handgun that fits you well and practice with it till you consistently hit what you aim at. That is the best one.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:50:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
Well, for stopping power I'd have to go with the 155mm Howitzer in a 36-inch barrel.



"Mmmm, Kemosabe, that one big-ass urban rifle..."
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:56:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pyroperson69:
Of every gun out there rifle pistol whaterer, which gun do you feel is the best.



GE M61 20mm minigun or 120 mm Rheinmetall Tank Main Gun, depending on the hardness of the target.

If the GE is not available, the old Quad .50 M2 or Soviet 12.7 DShK AAA Quad mount comes to mind.

Always a case to be made for the 106mm Recoilless Rifle, but ammo is getting hard to come by these days.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:02:54 PM EDT
My loooooooong gun is the best gun. Nothing else comes can compete
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:08:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:23:01 PM EDT
AK-74...period!
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 10:00:59 PM EDT
That would be a toss up between my AK-74 clone and my Valmet model 76. I think I'd pick the valmet...
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 11:06:14 PM EDT

Best for what?

Of defensive firearms that are common, I'd want an accurate rifle that fires a .308 or .30-06, and a 12ga. shotgun, a carbine or rifle firing a smaller, lighter .223, and a pistol shooting the most practical cartridge for recoil control and accurate shooting above a 9mm in power like .40 or 10mm, or .357sig, or a .45acp.

Remington, Winchester, Colt, Bushmaster, Glock, Sig, and HK are probably the brand names I'd stick with, I don't imagine I'd need to venture too far off this path.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 5:45:12 AM EDT
I would say the best all around would be a semi auto 12 gauge like the Remington 11-87. From slugs to birdshot, it does a good job at anything except long range shooting.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 8:37:24 AM EDT
Plasma rifle in 40 watt range.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 8:40:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sk8brdnick:
That would be a toss up between my AK-74 clone and my Valmet model 76. I think I'd pick the valmet...


In this horse race I'd pick the Galil.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 9:38:19 AM EDT
For up close and personal, factoring in cost and reliabilty I will take the Mossberg 500 can do alot of damage for not too much money!
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:13:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
For up close and personal, factoring in cost and reliabilty I will take the Mossberg 500 can do alot of damage for not too much money!



AAhhh, but the question was, "Of every gun out there rifle pistol whaterer, which gun do you feel is the best."

No mention of engagement range, price, or reliability.

The question is akin to asking what are the best clothes or what is the best vehicle.

It all comes back to the question "to do what?"
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:17:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SF:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
For up close and personal, factoring in cost and reliabilty I will take the Mossberg 500 can do alot of damage for not too much money!



AAhhh, but the question was, "Of every gun out there rifle pistol whaterer, which gun do you feel is the best."

No mention of engagement range, price, or reliability.

The question is akin to asking what are the best clothes or what is the best vehicle.

It all comes back to the question "to do what?"



SF,
since I have no idea of who you are let me ask a personal question.
Gonna get promoted to "Full-Bull" before out ??

(Just a small attempt to gauge the Army's current position on "Special Forces.")
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:41:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:58:09 AM EDT
A GAlil ARM in 308.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 11:25:10 AM EDT
5subslr5:

Since you have no idea of who I am, let me answer your personal question. This is way off topic, but I appreciate the personal question. ;-)

"Gonna get promoted to "Full-Bull" before out ??"

Short answer, highly unlikely.

My apologies for the long, boring answer which follows. Full details would exceed the 3500 character limit, but briefly SF, COLs are selected by a Department of the Army selection board, which is also looking at every other LTC in the Army within the considered dates of rank. The most significant cutline is having had a battalion command, which I have not (just three platoons, three SF A detachments, and two companies). The board normally has one senior officer from each of the Army branches, plus a Board President who is a General Officer.

Since there are nowhere near as many SF battalions per eligible SF LTC as there are for most of the other branches say, Infantry, Signal, or Finance LTCs, we operate at a disadvantage. We do get some garrison and recruiting battalion equivalent commands to help. There is also little or no consideration given to the days deployed, adverse living conditions, physical injuries from rucking and jumping for over 15 years, etc. either. Finally, when report card time comes from my boss, I compete against mostly other SF officers, who tend to be a cut above the quality level of most of the other branches. The board really does not consider the relative quality level of your peers, or difficulty of your assignments. The Finance officer who works an indoors office job from 0800-1700 every day for the same number of years and gets better report cards than his peers is just as likely (assuming no special instructions to the board) as I would be to get promoted with the same reports. Assuming no anti-SF prejudice by the board members, which may or may not be present.

Strangely enough, there are a disproportionate number of requirements for SF COLs (mostly on high level staffs), so the board is told about the shortage of battalions. They are also sometimes told that because of the number of requirements and the shortage of battalions they should try to select a certain number of SF LTCs for promotion. When it occurs, this results in a couple of non-command LTCs getting selected. That is my only shot. You get three looks (Below (BZ), Primary (PZ) and Above Zones (AZ)) to get selected.

Due to a number of factors (including language skills, training, experience, etc.) SF guys are normally in demand by US and overseas corporations, so many leave at 20, which is just before the average LTC gets looked at for COL. This does help those of us who decide to stay. I am an average promotion guy who came in the Army in '79, and I did not make it to COL BZ. My PZ board has just met and the results are not yet released. My last (AZ) board meets in August '02 if I do not make it on the current list.

The Army is currently so short on qualified personnel in SF (enlisted, warrant, and officer), and Spec Ops aviators that we alone are not being allowed to seperate (Stop Loss) except under exceptional circumstances. They do not, however, accelerate promotions in order to retain us. Go figure.

(Cont.)
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 11:25:43 AM EDT
Continuation

The last longevity pay raise for a LTC is at 22 years of service and mandatory retirement occurs at 26 years. I am proud to have served with the SF personnel I have been blessed to serve with and would sign up for the same career again, knowing I would not make COL. Prior to 9/11, my plan was to seperate at 23 years of service after my last look for COL.

If I read between the lines of your message, I think you are asking whether the (conventional) Army promotes SF personnel at a preferred rate, considering difficulty of serving and inherent quality of SF personnel (having volunteered for difficult training and service).

If so, the answer is no. If the question is, are we being discriminated against by the (conventional) Army, I believe that the answer is, not so you could prove it. ;-)

I think that the role of SF, compared to the conventional Army, in the current crisis may be changing a few opinions of the openminded.

Hope this answers your question. If not, drop me a line.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 12:49:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2002 12:51:30 PM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By SF:

If I read between the lines of your message, I think you are asking whether the (conventional) Army promotes SF personnel at a preferred rate, considering difficulty of serving and inherent quality of SF personnel (having volunteered for difficult training and service).

If so, the answer is no. If the question is, are we being discriminated against by the (conventional) Army, I believe that the answer is, not so you could prove it. ;-)


SF,
you have answered my question which was roughly - "Does the Army continue to discriminate against those officers choosing "SF" as a career ?"
I'm not nearly a good enough actor to even pretend surprise at your answer.

Briefly, I know a Col. here at "Tinker AFB." Just completed this assignment and will be moving on. Guy had the relatively unimportant job of managing the tankers. Also an Academy guy, lots of punched tickets - public and not so public - promoted to Col. "below zone" - then has the bad fortune to be asked by a General he admires and respects to accept the tanker job.

No Col. has ever made General from this job.

Thank you very much for your service and for taking time to respond to my question.

5subslr5
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 12:37:11 PM EDT
There are two instances when a gun is the BEST gun.

When it saves your life.

When you have it up for sale.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 2:32:41 PM EDT
Best gun? Whatever is in my hand or easily accessible when I need it.

Other than that, the 1911. :)

Link Posted: 1/21/2002 3:34:13 PM EDT
... May I be the first to suggest the,


AR15
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 4:12:00 AM EDT
The one and only Mechanical Marvel:




Link Posted: 1/22/2002 6:48:45 AM EDT
For close range defense, nothing beats a 12ga shotgunn... no way ANYbody is going to survive a direct hit from that thing. For long range shooting, I have a friend who have a remington 700 police in 300 remington ultramag... I like to have that... 50 cals would be great if it werent for the weight... for assault, I still think AK-47 type rifle in 7.62 (NOT 223) is good. Heck they are maintainence free, maybe not so accurate but if you are spraying and preying who cares about accuracy?? and the 7.62 can penetrate walls, car doors whereas the 223 would just shatter and not do a whole lot of damage to the bad guys on the other side of the car.... but for police work a 223 is GREAT because it doesnt have problem with overpenetration yet it can go through body armors... all I have is some JC higgins 12ga (I kinda wished I had a benelli M1...) and a moisin nagant which has WAY more power than a 223 (some say its as good as a 30-06) but it had a crappy trigger and not so good accuracy (I think its because the way I shoot and also because the barrel isnt free-floated (thanks to that advanced tech crap stock)) and if I were worrying about killing deers with a 223... now I think more about killing elks...
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 8:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2002 9:03:23 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Here is my vote:

M61/M61A1 Vulcan 20mm Aircraft Gun (1946-1975).

The M61 20mm Vulcan is a U.S. Air Force externally powered, six-barrel, rotary-fire Gatling gun having a rate of fire of up to 7,200 spm. The firing rate is selectible at 4,000 spm or 6,000 spm. The gun fires standard electrically primed 20mm ammunition. The M61 was classified Standard B (3,289 units were built). The M61A1 is hydraulically or ram-air driven, electrically controlled, and uses a linkless ammunition feed system. The M61A1 was type classified Standard A (over 4,118 units were built). The M61A1 was modified for use as a light three-barrel helicopter gun type classified as the M197 20mm automatic gun.


Note: That is the Vulcan next to the "wimpy" Mini Gun!
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 9:39:40 AM EDT
Oh Yeah?....Although the M61 is an excellent gun.....Still it can't compare to the GAU-8/A 30mm cannon of the A10 Thunderbolt II. It shoot 30mm of depleted uranium rounds at 3,900 rpm.

Link Posted: 1/22/2002 9:51:33 AM EDT
Now the A-10 Thunderbolt II, is a plane an infantryman can learn to love!

Makes my day when one of those flies by!

Too bad the USAF is getting rid of them. The replacement is alleged to be the F-15E Strike Eagle or the JSF. Not really CAS birds, and both are too fast without enough ToT for me.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:32:26 AM EDT
Yeah, but the A-10 will be in Guard service for years to come
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 5:07:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Yeah, but the A-10 will be in Guard service for years to come



We can only hope!

Go Guard! On Warthogs!
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:18:59 PM EDT
the one i use to kill the badguy
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:44:57 PM EDT
I'm rather fond of the Marlin single shot bolt action youth model in .22 short with a custom Ramline stock and a Tasco 4X Rimfire scope, Uncle Mike's sling swivels and a genuine nylon sling!
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 12:54:16 PM EDT
For me, the "best gun" has always been the next one I want to buy.

Link Posted: 1/23/2002 1:00:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Oh Yeah?....Although the M61 is an excellent gun.....Still it can't compare to the GAU-8/A 30mm cannon of the A10 Thunderbolt II. It shoot 30mm of depleted uranium rounds at 3,900 rpm.




I'll take one of these please
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 2:47:50 PM EDT
0verall?.....
The AR10 Carbine.

Why you ask?
-7.62x51mm serves as an excellent round offering a workable compromise between terminal effectiveness (stopping power) and low weight (amount of ammo able to be carried).
-Carbine allows good manueverability for short range engagements and can be effective to well over 500 meters with optics.
-Ammunition availability, 7.62 NATO can be bought or aquired most anywhere if SHTF, (unlike some of the more exotic rounds).
-Reliable operation of a bulletproof design incorporating a long range accurate round (unlike spray and pray AK variants).
-They look really cool.
-Fewer moving parts and 'in line' operation helps insure accuracy.

OK...I'm biased a bit. These are the reasons I bought mine. This is the weapon that I would want for most any situation.


Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:59:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hube1236:
A Walther P99 in 40SW.

I love the gun.


i agree...got a Walther P99QA (quick action)in .40cal for Yule and its a great 21st century firearm.
...but as far as the best gun...id have to say an AR15 with various uppers (9mm 40cal .50cal 16" 20" 11.5" 24" etc etc)the thing that i love about the AR15 is its so versitile.
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