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Posted: 1/8/2002 7:33:03 PM EDT
means that the velocity never exceeds the speed of sound, which is 1088 fps, at sea level, and at room temp (if I recall correctly) It is slightly less at higher altitudes. Ammo varies in speed from shot to shot and from gun to gun. Some loads vary a LOT. so typically, "subsonic" means "under 1000 fps". You can believe Marshall's "data" if you want, but I trust only performance on flesh and blood, ie, animal tests. In those tests, the 230 gr Hydroshok does not expand much if at all, and then ONLY when fired from 5" barrels. There are FAR better loads for the .45, but they are supersonic. For use in a silenced .45, they might as well be 223's, Then you would have a RIFLE, and AP performance.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:41:54 PM EDT
OK, So what are you getting at?

If you want a suppressed pistol why not go with a subsonic .45 load, instead of subsonic 9mm.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 9:20:26 PM EDT
Just as a personal comment I prefer the .408 for a suppressed sniper rifle.

Is this pertinent ?

Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:33:00 AM EDT
Jett,

I've killed a LOT of things with the .45 HydraShok, in unsuppressed and suppressed weapons. My suppressed platform is an HK USP Tactical with Knight's Armament OHG suppressor. I can state unequivocally that the .45 230gr HS is always subsonic, and DOES expand in living tissue very reliably. Matter of fact, it expands at 45 yards in 10-15lb cats quite effectively.

QS
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:44:12 AM EDT
Man they will fight to the death for there beloved Hydroshoks.
It's like the S&W pos handguns,cops have a thing for them and thats the way it is.

BTW:hydroshoks are crap anyway.
AD in a house two years ago form a Colt commader.
The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was stoped by a Chevy small block in the sheed 45" away.

If they shoot one of they off in a plane I'm on it damn well better hit me.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:50:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By big_bore:
Man they will fight to the death for there beloved Hydroshoks.
It's like the S&W pos handguns,cops have a thing for them and thats the way it is.

BTW:hydroshoks are crap anyway.
AD in a house two years ago form a Colt commader.
The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was stoped by a Chevy small block in the sheed 45" away.

If they shoot one of they off in a plane I'm on it damn well better hit me.



I'm not a cop...and I don't really carry a big stick on the subject. I just know that everything I've shot with one has assumed room temperature rather quickly.

BTW, your example is pretty poor. The HS is designed to have some barrier penetration, and I doubt if there's anything you could load in a .45 that's going to crack an engine block.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:59:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By big_bore:
Man they will fight to the death for there beloved Hydroshoks.
It's like the S&W pos handguns,cops have a thing for them and thats the way it is.

BTW:hydroshoks are crap anyway.
AD in a house two years ago form a Colt commader.
The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was stoped by a Chevy small block in the sheed 45" away.

If they shoot one of they off in a plane I'm on it damn well better hit me.



I'm not a cop...and I don't really carry a big stick on the subject. I just know that everything I've shot with one has assumed room temperature rather quickly.

BTW, your example is pretty poor. The HS is designed to have some barrier penetration, and I doubt if there's anything you could load in a .45 that's going to crack an engine block.




"crack an engine block"
This is what I said.
"The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was STOPED by a Chevy small block in the shed 45" away."
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:06:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 5:08:29 AM EDT by jett3]
how would you ever KNOW if a .45 Hydro shok expanded in a cat? if you shot it LENGTHWISE , it will STILL exit, and IF you recover it, how would you know that it didnt expand on the ground, or whatever else stopped it? The fact is, the 230 gr HS usually doesn't expand enough for you to be able to tell the exit wound from that made by ball ammo. In fact, you often can't tell the entrance from the exit wound, unless one of the far side ribe or the shoulder gets hit. most cats are closer to 5 lbs than they are to 15 lbs, too. A 15 lb cat is somebody's lappet, not a stray.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:10:48 AM EDT
45 inches isn't very far.

Any hollowpoint no matter what the caliber or velocity is going to perform poorly (overpenetrate and fail to expand) upon penetration of drywall or other hard materials. I tested penetration of several different .45 loads in a 5" barrel. The SXT would go through 2 layers of drywall (the thickness of a wall) and was stopped by a dish barrel (corrugated cardboard). The Hydrashok penetrated both the dish barrel and the drywall layers, through the milk jug and hit the 4x4 behind it. Zero expansion on either slug.

I tested 185gr +P Silvertips and they penetrated about the same as the SXT. 9mm +P rounds would penetrate the drywall, cardboard, milk jug, and imbed themselves in the 4x4.

The stopping performance of non-expanding sub-sonic .45 FMJs have been proven by the experience of soldiers in 2 world wars and 2 police actions. Heavy and slow works.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:35:56 AM EDT
Not really sure what the POINT of this thread is but I like 230 grn. BlackTalons for my 45acp round. They are IMHO much better than the Fed HShoks.

They expand and penetrate and will put a full grown hereford down w/ one shot to the head and the last loggerhead I shot practically exploded into pieces.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:48:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jett3:
how would you ever KNOW if a .45 Hydro shok expanded in a cat? if you shot it LENGTHWISE , it will STILL exit, and IF you recover it, how would you know that it didnt expand on the ground, or whatever else stopped it? The fact is, the 230 gr HS usually doesn't expand enough for you to be able to tell the exit wound from that made by ball ammo. In fact, you often can't tell the entrance from the exit wound, unless one of the far side ribe or the shoulder gets hit. most cats are closer to 5 lbs than they are to 15 lbs, too. A 15 lb cat is somebody's lappet, not a stray.



Simple. I recovered the bullet about 15 feet beyond the cat, lying on the ground. There was a tuft of fur trapped under the bent-over center post, and the bullet was fully expanded.

And, not to let this degenerate into a cat-killing thread, but once your 'lappet' gets into my backyard and tears up one of my dogs, he'll only be suitable for mounting. And not in the Biblical sense.

QS

Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:48:32 AM EDT

This is what I said.
"The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was STOPED by a Chevy small block in the shed 45" away."



So... What's your point? Are you saying that the Hydra-Shok penetrated too much or not enough?
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 5:50:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Renamed:

This is what I said.
"The round hit the wall and make a clean hole in a 2X4 and then a steel door and then was STOPED by a Chevy small block in the shed 45" away."



So... What's your point? Are you saying that the Hydra-Shok penetrated too much or not enough?



That's kinda what I was wondering.
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