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Posted: 1/3/2002 10:21:27 PM EDT
Well I had my mind set on the HK but then I found the P220. Question is, what should I get? I guess I could always get the HK and then put the sig on layaway. Anyway, does anyone own a 220.

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:09:10 AM EDT
I met a guy at our local range that swears by Sig 220s. I tried shooting it and was very impressed. I suppose you can't go terribly wrong with either gun. Get both. Then get a 1911 for completeness.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:11:56 AM EDT
I have recently become the owner of a Sig 220. Previously I've only shot .22LR & 9mm pistols. I shoot better with the 220 than with my 9mm pistols, and I shoot almost as well as with my Ruger MKII .22LR pistol. It functions flawlessly, has a great sight picture, and it's reputation is that it is "the most accurate, out of the box, .45ACP pistol". I have Hogue grips on it, and it has tritium sights. I have not shot the HK USP 45, so I can't compare them. If you want to ask some other SIG 220 owners what they think, go to ... http://www.sigforum.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/sigforum/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:16:50 AM EDT
I have owned both...and I will say you'll never be sorry with the Sig 220. Both are fine weapons with different features...
The Sig 220 is a great shooter, very accurate and reliable.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:27:58 AM EDT
These are both fine pistols, but low capacity. No point in carrying a pistol that size and only getting 8 or 10 rounds of ammo in it.

Glock 21 holds 14 rounds, the ParaOrdnance P14-45 holds 15.

My little Tarus PT145 holds 11 and it's smaller than any of these.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:30:33 AM EDT
I have both and both are fine pistols. I personally like the HK better. but my favorite is still a custom made Para with 14 rounds.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:43:54 AM EDT
I own a Sig P220. Both the HK and the Sig are very good pistols. The HK has more "Bells and Whistles". What I like about the P220 is its simplicity and ergonomics. Also unlike the HK, it has full length slide rails along the frame, whereas the HK uses 3 pieces of metal tacked onto a polymer frame which come into contact with the slide.

The P220 has a relatively narrower grip making it easier for a shooter with medium or smaller hands to grip it and operate the controls.

I find that my 1911's are more accurate than my P220, but the P220 eats ammo that my 1911's won't. The firing pin block, and the decocking lever is what really makes the Sig design. Especially in a stressful armed encounter. There is no manual safety that you have to remember to thumb off. Like the Glock, you just pull the trigger.
The HK has both a Manual Safety AND a decocking lever. And you can carry the pistol "cocked and locked" like a 1911. This is fine, but too "complicated" for me during an emergency.
Trigger pull on the Sigs are nice, about 8lbs, with some creep. Not as nice as on my 1911, but very good.

The Bar Dot Sight combination is very fast to work with.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:54:08 AM EDT
I don't own either, but I have spent time with each pistol. It has been a while since I shot the USP, whereas I just had my first encounter with the 220 Wednesday night. I compared it with my Colt .45, and except for the fact that it is double action, I like the SIG alot.

The USP felt like it had a better double action trigger, but single action is what's important. The SIG wins there; it's SA pull is excellent. More slack than on my Colt, but just as crisp and a little lighter after the take-up. I managed excellent accuracy offhand. As for ergonomics, I believe it is the second most comfortable .45, after the 1911. The grip just feels wonderful, and the angle is perfect. I prefer the USP's ability to be carried cocked and locked, and still have a decocker as well. With the SIG you only get the decocker, no safety. I can live with it, but I really like C&L better than a long DA pull on the first shot.

Both are very well put together. I have heard better things about the HK's long-term reliability, but you pay more for it so that's what you should expect. You also get three more rounds with the USP. Oh, one more thing - the 220's mags are a real bitch to load!

Which one would I buy? Probably the SIG - it's cheaper and has a better grip. But I would eventually buy the USP, too!
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:46:27 PM EDT
I would get the H&K USP45 and then pick up a USC .45 carbine.

Then I would go to the H&K Website and get a black polo shirt that says "H&K - No Compromise".



That's what I would do. OH WAIT !!! That's what I DID !!!!!

Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:52:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:02:26 PM EDT
The USP offers condition one carry, if your a 1911 man, then buy the USP. Pre ban 12 round mags are another bonus, if you don't mind the price. The USP passed a 20,000 round reliability test with no meaningful wear on any parts. Unmodified USP's have also fired 6,000 rounds of .45 super ammo without incident. The 220 is a great gun, although i'd pick the USP as my go to war gun.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:27:57 PM EDT
Rent a P220 at the range first. I bought one, thinking it would be great, and it was. Except, the recoil "feels funny" like the pistol is "rolling" back in your hand. This was seconded, and thirded by two of my friends at the range on its maiden voyage. Of course, we are all 1911 guys. Made $50 when I sold it though.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:31:53 PM EDT
Sig P220 - definitely!
Or the H&K.

Rarely, but occasionally, you're offered two good choices.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:41:11 PM EDT
sig 220.
mine shoots groups as tight as my 1911 goldcup when shooting "target" 200 SWC loads. Both have excellent triggers, Colt has slightly better SA, though. Sig is more reliable than the Colt. Mags are not difficult to load--no worse than the 1911 mags.
HK is a bit bulky compared to the above guns. All are good guns, its a matter of personal preference in the "feel" to you.

Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:02:35 PM EDT
Consider which one feels comfortable in your hand too. Both are great pistols, well made, high quality. The HK never felt comfortable in my hand - and I have a big hand - the HK has a pretty big grip too. I could not shoot the HK well, probably because of the comfort factor I guess. The Sig feels more comfortable and I can put the lead where I want it to go.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:10:22 PM EDT
Sig has a 3 year warranty, H&K is lifetime.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:18:45 PM EDT
The SIG220 in all steel because the K-Kote sucks & wears too easily. Plus the extra weight from the steel will help. OR you can wear the crap out of the K-Kote & get a Roguard finish...never wear & the more you use it the "slicker" it becomes.

IF you're getting for range work & self defense at home go all steel. If you're thinking CCW on a belt then it's a bit heavy (for me) to go that route.

Don't know much about the HK but seems like it's a bit more "complicated" & will require more practice to make your muscle memory kick in just as well during self defense situations. With the SIG you just pull & shoot. The first DA shot will require some getting used to.

Shot an HK USP 45 once...very little recoil...but pricey.

I still shoot my Kimber better than either a SIG or Glock or HK...but thats just me.



Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:19:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
Sig has a 3 year warranty, H&K is lifetime.



VERY good point....
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:26:14 PM EDT
Sig 220...becuase it is a great gun

HK is good too though
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:49:43 PM EDT
I agree 100% with Bostonterrier97. I have a P220. I must admit, the only HK I shot was a 9mm. Of course, right now my favorite pistol is my new Kimber Custom CDP:

Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:19:58 AM EDT
Thanks for all the honest opinions guys. I think I am going to stick with the HK this time around. First because of the feel, second the magazine capacity, and third the lifetime warranty. Now I just need to figure out how to come up with another $220 Does anyone know of a good source for HK Hi-Cap mags?
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:40:11 AM EDT
you've got e mail about hi cap mags
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:56:54 AM EDT
There is interesting information at www.hkpro.com on "high capacity" USP magazines. H&K has a FAQ on the subject. Be careful.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:00:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 9:01:51 AM EDT by schapman43]
Yeah I just found that. I'll stick with the 10rnd'ers.
www.hkpro.com/hicap.htm

"There never was any such animal as a pre-ban high capacity (12-rd) SOCOM pistol (MK23) magazine! Regardless of what anyone says, these magazines are simply stolen U.S. government property! The production contract for the MK23 pistol and all the spare mags was not even awarded until June, 1995, after the Crime Bill was enacted."
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 11:07:43 AM EDT
Someone please explain how a USP is complicated. It's set up like a 1911 with two additional functions; de-cock, and double-action. Are these added features what make it complicated? If you add up de-cock and double action, you get a gun that can be carriered un-cocked and ready to fire. That doesn't seem very complicated to me. Infact, it would seem to me that the USP offers everything the Sig does plus higher capacity, less weight, and a lifetime warranty.

Not that there is anything wrong with the 220, but I think you can guess which gun I bought.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 11:14:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 11:23:05 AM EDT by Boomholzer]
I have shot both on the same day at the same range at 50feet. I shot much better with the 220.
I disliked the USP's "tree-trunk" of a grip frame. Slightly to big for my hands.

I edited to add that I agree with origbadbob's observation on how the 220's recoil feels. I was'nt used to that, and it was a bit uncomfortable when it came to re-aquistioning the target. If you look at the 220, the barrel sits higher relative to the grip and trigger than on the 1911 and USP. I think this is the cause of the "roll back" in the recoil.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 11:31:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
Sig has a 3 year warranty, H&K is lifetime.



HK is lifetime because it takes a lifetime to get any work done to your gun. Just try contacting their customer service and you'll see what I mean. HK seems to only really care about the military and LEO orginazations. The average "Joe" is 3rd Rate in their minds....
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 5:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 5:25:41 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Because the HK's frame is polymer, you'd think it was lighter than the Sig, and I read a few people here say that the HK is lighter. That isn't true. A USP 45f is heavier than a Sig P220. I didnt think so either, but its true...

HK USP .45f = 30.4 oz
Sig P220 = 28 and 1/4 oz

Source was every one of those Comabat annual mags I checked 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 (2001 didnt have specific weights for calibers). The ones with the Ultimate Gun Catalog (yellow pages) in the rear. I presume these weights are unloaded.

PS, both are great, USP was better for my needs.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:42:23 PM EDT
I have always been a huge Sig Sauer fan and I've owned a few P220's, but I prefer the HK USPC .45.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:03:49 PM EDT
Get the P220...I have fired 1000's of rounds through one and have found it to be completely reliable and very accurate. Compared to the HK, it is smaller and lighter. Capacity is down, but it is a quality piece. I have fired the HK, and it is a fine weapon. I found it to be a bit large, but for a duty weapon it would be great. I would consider one for such a task. But for an all-around gun, the P220 is hard to beat.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:23:35 PM EDT
Buy a Glock...

Cg..
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