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Posted: 12/30/2001 8:07:37 AM EDT

What is the policy of the different branches today?
I know in Vietnam, some guys brought there own pistol.
Could a guy going to fight the Afgan war bring his Glock, or M1A?
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 8:49:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 8:49:45 AM EDT by CIB]
When I was in (89'-93') they would'nt let you take personal weapons.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:09:55 AM EDT
In all branches of the military you must use military issued weapons.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 11:15:26 AM EDT
You could probably sneak one in (handgun) but then where would you stow it securely? You war chest? Footlocker? Some superior type officer may notice you bandying about your non mil issue Glock or S&W piece. Not to mention, if you do go to war, there will be a vigorous aearch of you, your clothes and personal belongings for contraband i.e. grenades, landmines, saved rounds or any other type of war prizes Uncles Sam doesn't want you to have upon your dismissal from said war.

I'd say go for it as long as you don't mind the confiscation and court martial part!

Sherm

PS I was trying to figue a way to sneak a Mossberg 590into my sea bag for my upcoming activation, but it would probably look bad unpacking it in the barracks.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 11:24:57 AM EDT
What about modifying your M16 for full auto..
I know I would want to, and who would know ;)
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 12:20:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thee12nv:
What about modifying your M16 for full auto..
I know I would want to, and who would know ;)



I heard a story several years ago about some Marines doing this in Desert Storm. As the story goes, they were caught a punished.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 4:49:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 4:50:00 PM EDT by dissipator556]
The only thing I would bring would be a cheapo 9mm compact framed pistol. Cheap, because I will probably have to ditch it before coming home, 9mm for obvious ammo supply issues, and compact so that it could be easily stashed away.

In the Marine Corps, only E-6 and above 1833's (amtrackers)are issued sidearms, and being inside a tracked vehicle, it would be nice to have a sidearm in case I need to bail out fast and don't have time to take my rifle with me. Still, it's risky stuff- although I've heard that LEO Marine Reservists could bring their duty siderarms with them in Desert Storm.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 5:17:33 PM EDT
Thee- You would get caught in the Pre-embarkation inspection. All DOD weapons are subject to an inspection (100% gauging and funtion check)prior to being shipped over seas. The function check alone would give you away, not to mention the actual inspection.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 5:42:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 6:20:36 PM EDT by Rescue35]
Ummmmmm... all it takes to make a M16A2 fully full auto is a washer. Put it in after you are there, take it out before you come back.

R35

(edited because I told him to "bake" something)
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 5:54:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 6:48:59 PM EDT by guardian855]
while I was too young to be there, when my unit went to the Gulf War, they were told that if they were part of the company's shooting team, they could bring their own .45s, and carry them on duty, my unit being Military Police we carry our pistols all the time. Everybody ran out, bought tricked out .45s and joined the Shooting Team which didn't even exist until then. The first day over there, an officer in another unit saw somebody with his chrome plated 1911 with pearl grips and made a big fuss about it. Next day everybody was required to turn in their personal weapons and get issued military weapons, and could only check out the customised pistols for practice and competitions. No one bothered to ever check them out. Coincidentally, there are all sorts of stories about confisicating AK-47s, Iraqi Berettas, land mines, unexploded cluster bombs, anything and everything that soldiers would try to take home. I can't verify the accuracy of the statements above, but everybody in my unit who was old enought to be in Saudi told me this story, and I believe it is true.

If you have a hard on for full auto and are in the Army, just become a SAW gunner. It's the M16 with a belt feed. 850 rounds a minute. I love the SAW, even more than the MK-19!
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 6:02:06 PM EDT
No-Go for the Air Force either. Like dissipator said, if you simply must risk UCMJ punishment to bring a privately owned weapon along, something cheap that you wouldn't mind losing would do.
As for the full-auto...we haven't finished converting to the A2 yet, so no problem there if you really have a hard-on for full auto.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 6:51:58 PM EDT
According to my Sergeant Major in high school a brigadier general was busted along with a couple thousand other guys trying to smuggle hardware in the door panels and deck plates of trucks and jeeps back from Grenada. Lots of guys got busted.

During WW2 my grandfather told me that the only guys who got any booty were quartermasters because they checked baggage and stole anything out of the footlockers and duffle bags that wasn't GI to take home themselves. My grandfather was able to smuggle back a few things by burying them and then using an English shipping firm to ship stuff back after the war was over.

I've read stories of guys during WW2 writing home for handguns because they were indispensable in hand-to-hand combat and city fighting. I just wonder what happened to the guns that were actually sent to the soldiers, like if any of the weapons actually arrived, or if they were stolen by quartermasters.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:22:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2001 7:23:18 PM EDT by HET]
To turn a M-16 to full auto is flip the switch to “AUTO”. Well that was easy.
That's how it works on mine when I get it every year to qualify with.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:28:12 PM EDT
Guardian855,
While working for V Corps, I got to see the legal dispositions of those stupid enough to try to smuggle weapons and explosives. Not many Courts Martial, but A SHITLOAD of Article 15s (non-judicial, usually accepted by the troop). There was one broad who had a BLU-64 cluster submunition in her duffle. A few AKMs that morons tried to smuggle.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:49:35 PM EDT
I know for a fact about some stuff that came back inside of an APC from Desert Storm, and I have seen (and almost bought) a Hi-Power stamped with an Iraqi crest that this guy brought back from Desert Storm
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 11:29:38 PM EDT
My platoon Sgt at Ft Hood carried a stainless Colt Gold Cup, and noone seemed to mind.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:26:59 AM EDT
Use of personal fire arms is like a regional/theatre CINC level prohibition, if not a department (AF, Army and Navy), there are standing orders in all the Joint Commands that say troops cannot do it. No Company, Battery, Troop, Battalion, Squadron, Regiment, Brigade or even division commander can countermand these orders (These orders are reinforced by similar standing orders in almost ever Corps and Division in the US military). If some Company commander is stupid enough to authorize it, than that doesn't lesson the action against the person caught with the weapon, it makes the Commander also eligible for violation of Articles 92 and 98 and possibly 88, 89, 90, 92, 98, 133 and 134 depending on if he made any statements on why he authorized the use of the weapon. If someone claims to have carried a personal weapon in the recent past, they weren't caught by someone who knows what the rules are or was not willing to enforce lawful orders.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:30:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 5:35:55 AM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By HET:
To turn a M-16 to full auto is flip the switch to “AUTO”. Well that was easy.
That's how it works on mine when I get it every year to qualify with.

You must qualify with an A1, an A3, or and A4, because the A2, which is the standard issue, does not have an "AUTO" setting. It has "SEMI" and "BURST".

M16A1- early issue will full auto
M16A2- current standard issue with burst
M16A3- current limited issue with full auto
all the above have the carry handle
M16A4- flattop with full auto. I don't know if many of these are issued as most flattops are M4's.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:45:56 AM EDT
Bringing your own stuff is a no-go. Every "piecekeeping" mission that I have gone on, this is under general order #1. Along with no beer, no women, and no fun allowed. Bringing stuff back, well don't get caught. But customs coming back is always a joke. At most they send the bomb/drug dogs thru. I have an M4a1 carbine, so I dont have to worry about full-auto. The M-16A4 is a flattop rifle with burst.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 6:06:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By HET:
To turn a M-16 to full auto is flip the switch to “AUTO”. Well that was easy.
That's how it works on mine when I get it every year to qualify with.

You must qualify with an A1, an A3, or and A4, because the A2, which is the standard issue, does not have an "AUTO" setting. It has "SEMI" and "BURST".

M16A1- early issue will full auto
M16A2- current standard issue with burst
M16A3- current limited issue with full auto
all the above have the carry handle
M16A4- flattop with full auto. I don't know if many of these are issued as most flattops are M4's.



Does the M4 do full auto, or burst only?
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 7:25:58 AM EDT
The current M4 has burst mode. The M4A1 has Auto. Both are the same, flattops just the fire modes are different. The regular army gets the M4, SOF the M4A1
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 12:30:14 PM EDT
SJSAMPLE

I heard that not many people got court martialed for it, but was unsure. My squad leader says they found so much stuff, they always figured everybody was smuggling something, and 99% of the time they found stuff. They probably didn't find it all either. He claims they found a platoon in one company had built a false floor in a Connex or Portable container or whatever they call it and found a small stockpile of AKMs in there.

And speaking of cluster bombs, my squad leader also swears he saw two soliders playing catch with an unexploded cluster bomb they found lying in the desert, they were playing catch with a dud in other words.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:09:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
SJSAMPLE

I heard that not many people got court martialed for it, but was unsure. My squad leader says they found so much stuff, they always figured everybody was smuggling something, and 99% of the time they found stuff. They probably didn't find it all either. He claims they found a platoon in one company had built a false floor in a Connex or Portable container or whatever they call it and found a small stockpile of AKMs in there.

And speaking of cluster bombs, my squad leader also swears he saw two soliders playing catch with an unexploded cluster bomb they found lying in the desert, they were playing catch with a dud in other words.



That's not very smart. Some of those cluster bomblets don't blow upon impact because they are mines.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:13:05 PM EDT
why would anyone want to bring weapons to a war? doesn't the army burden you with enough weight???

now bringing back stuff that's another matter. ;)
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:23:42 PM EDT
I have a friend that was in the Ranger, back in Desert Storm, he got a 16 inch CAR upper with an ACOG and switched with his 20 inch upper. He also carried a Steyr GB as his handgun. never got in trouble for it. or at least that is what he told me.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 2:37:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 2:42:58 PM EDT by JAW]
I don't know much about the personal weapons issue, but one thing I have heard is that troops often times "make" hollowpoint pistol ammunition out of their issue ammunition using an awl (from an Leatherman, etc).

I asked the guy who told me this (former 2nd BN Ranger) if they would get in trouble and he said that by the time the ammo was collected at the various levels (I'm not sure if this is right but...) fire team, squad, platoon, and so on, no one who would care could determine who had modified the ammo.

If no personal weapons are allowed (by and large), what is this we always read about pistols tuned by various pistolsmiths being bought by troops with their own hard earned money and then carried in harms way?

I do know that Rangers (at least in 2nd BN) did have some lattitude with their weapons. RTO's and others carried CAR-15's before they all went to the M4. Some guys who had CAR-15's added fixed stocks, now some guys with M4s add fixed stocks. It would not surprise me if someone got a hold of a CAR-15 upper and put it on his M16. It would surprise me if that upper was personally purchased and not already somewhere in the Army system. Personally owned optics, from what I've heard, this was OK at least with the Ranger that I spoke with.

Stottman, don't you have a personally owned TA11 on your M4A1?

JAW
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 10:20:00 PM EDT
Currently in Kuwait, and issued weapons is what you bring. During Desert Storm one of the Battery Commanders brought a scope for his M16. He zeroed it during a range day right before we left. As far as people bringing stuff back, the customs personnel are pretty good and almost all people got caught. The customs personnel have seen all the hiding places and they will catch you most of the time. People try to bring stuff back in their duffle bags, but if you try you take the chance of getting your bag dumped as they select a certain # of people to dump bags, and sometimes it's a 100% dump.

As far as sub munitions go, the first night of the ground war we stopped in an area that was saturated with DPICM bomblets from either 155mm or MLRS. They look like little cylinders with a ribbon looped on it, and there is a cone shaped area on the end (shaped charge). Several of my soldiers brought me some on their shovels as they were digging defensive positions, and I told them to avoid them, etc. Then right after that a SGT came up to me spinning one on his finger with the ribbon. I screamed at him to put it down and he calmly told me that it was a dud and a part was missing (as he put his finger in the cone shaped depression). I ordered him to put it down a safe distance from us. He and another SGT walked away. About a minute later there was a large flash and I saw three of my soldiers fall to the ground. What happened is that the two SGTs had gone around a parked Hummer, talked about how the LT didn't know it was a dud, and when they were done tossed it on the ground. One of the SGTs almost didn't make it that night, and he was EVACd to Germany. The other two PFCs were injured but only had to go to the battalion to get fixed up. The other SGT had no injuries...and soldiers actually did try to take this stuff back home, RISKING EVERYONE ON THE AIRCRAFT. The SGT while on his way to Germany got a Purple Heart from LTG Franks. Since this guy was an augmentee from another unit we didn't hear about this until we called the unit about UCMJ. The medal was revoked but I don't know if he received any action.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:15:47 AM EDT
No one mentioned the Infamous GENERAL ORDER #1:

POW's : no way
Scewing the locals (thus includes the cute little USAF gals): nope
Booze: Verboten


etc......

Link Posted: 1/1/2002 3:58:29 AM EDT

As far as putting scopes on your weapon, it depends on your unit. I am in a SF battalion, so I can get away with more. I don't know what one could do in a regular unit. And yes, I have a personal TA-11 on my M4A1.:) I have heard some people say that its within regs to put your own scope on your weapon, others say no. I dont even know where to look to find out. In SOF units, swithing the tele-stock on the M4 with a standard m16 stock is done. I attached a pic of an example. To all wondering, it is a M4A1 with a new stock, not just a M16 with a M4 upper. One SF guy told me that before everyone had M4s, they would buy short barreled uppers to put on their M16s. I dont know if the unit bought them, or they paid out of their own pockets. As for bringing stuff back, I haver never been searched. Once I had them look in my carry on bag when getting off the C-5, but the pallets with the duffel bags was left untouched. When I got back from Bosnia, the customs guy just asked us if we had anything. One could of had 2 Russian Drags, 2 Yugo SKSs, a Yugo M-76 sniper rifle and 3 pistols in his bag if he wanted to.

Link Posted: 1/1/2002 6:09:10 PM EDT
I know of a AF cargo aircraft pilot who carries a Glock 34 instead of the M9.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:31:23 PM EDT
Its amazing what vets brought back from WWI.I know my Aunts brother brought back 2 live handgernades.He passed away in the early 70's.While cleaning out his basement they found them in a old shoe box on the shelf lol.MD bomb squad was called out to remove them.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:49:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 8:54:15 PM EDT by AR15fan]
I known Marine officers who smuggled their own weapons to the gulf war. I never saw an enlisted person even try it.

More than a few AKMs and G3s were brought back from Somalia.

Link Posted: 1/1/2002 10:56:30 PM EDT
A friend of mine was in the AF in desert storm. He wanted to bring his sig p-220 , but was told no way. He did manage to bring back a several M-16 lowers that he claimed had been listed as destroyed / non functional. He said he wanted to bring back a cool mop suit for chem attacks, but they searched out every one issued, guess they cost more than the rifles. He also had some sniper rifle found abandoned on the battle field. He thinks it is russian issue, I did not see that part of his collection.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 8:56:31 AM EDT
I asked my training chief a couple months ago, in September, if I could bring personal weapons and match ammo when we go outside CONUS. He said that security would be fine and I wouldn't need it, and furthermore I would get busted by the 1stSgt or at the airport anyway.

- Lance Corporal/0431
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