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Posted: 12/20/2001 1:02:57 PM EDT
I use to post here (over 1000 posts) 3yrs ago, but left due to all the trolls at that time...
Glad to see the board is cleaned up! Glad to be back.

What is the Biggest Rip-Off by a Gun Dealer that has ever happened to you.

I just about got ripped off by a Dealer/Distributor in Prescott, AZ)
I wanted to trade a like new Bushmaster XM15A2 that I installed a Smith Brahe on. (the one with allen screws. I installed it right, and had to use a Dremmil tool th grind 4 indentations on the barrel.)
I wanted to trade it and some cash for Thompson 1918A (semi-auto) Tom gun with a drum and 2 mags. This fool offered me $500.00 for my Bushmaster (like new cond.)because of the brake, and would not go down a bit on the Thompson. He had it marked $950.00. I walked away
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 2:59:22 PM EDT
Well I don't think thats a rip off but just a general dealer being a hard ass! heheheheh
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:43:01 PM EDT
A rip off would have been if you did the deal, and the Pseudo Tommy was used, and would'nt work..

Like the above post, that's a gun dealer doing his business..
Meplat-
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:16:27 AM EDT
I think you need to get out more... a thompson with a drum for $950? Unless it was only a fake 10 round drum (which is worth about $200) that's a steal. 50 round drums routinely sell for $500, 100 rounders much, much more...

As for your BM, what do you think wholesale should be on a used rifle like that?
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:59:55 AM EDT
First, let me say that I oppose the corrupt elements of the business world every bit as much as I despise terrorist governments.

A gun dealer should be a shining beacon in a world of darkness - someone to trust. But then, I'm just being the silly idealist I am.

One time I bought a Dragunov-style SKS for $250. In my current opinion, an SKS should cost no more than $150. $200 would be quasi-acceptable if it was in premium condition and was tricked out with a heavy duty Zytel stock or some really exotic and durable wood. $250 might be understandable if it had a scope, a bayonet, and a sling.

Or maybe I'm just too demanding.

The prices on almost anything you find in a department store is a rip-off. Not that I'd even recommend buying guns from a department store in the fist place - unless all gun shops were one day destroyed by the State and we were left with no other choice.

Why do so many bolt-actions cost so much? Ruger 77s, Remington 700s, Brownings, and many others cost MORE than a brand new CETME! Explain to me why that is. They may be pretty but they're just bolt-actions! I can't fathom paying $700 or more for a bolt-action. This is discluding .50 cals, of course.

And why does the Steyr Scout Rifle cost so much? Just because it's a Steyr?! It costs as much as an AUG - and it's just a bolt-action that takes 5-round mags! Are people really willing to spend this kind of moulah on bolt-actions when they could get semi-autos with comparable or better handling capabilities for half as much or less?!

And why does a used Winchester 1887 or 1910 cost $400 to $600 in cruddy condition when a new Mossberg 500 costs $250?

Why do Henry rifles cost so much?

Give me ugly any day!!
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:35:44 AM EDT
I bought my first AR from a local shop three years ago (right before I found this site). A postban Colt (Match Target 20"). I paid $1368 for it NIB. Man did I feel like an ass when I saw prebans going for less in the equipment exchange. Live and learn.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:46:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 7:43:57 AM EDT by 50cali]
When I was up in Seattle, Washington, I bought a brand new Kahr MK9 Elite (High polished stainless) for some thing around $800.00. I had if for less than a year and NEVER got to fire it. When I had to move back to California, I decided I had no use for such a small pistol so I went back to the same dealer to trade. A stainless Italian made 92 Beretta caught my eye. It was moderately scratched and I pointed this out. The big woman behind the counter exclaimed that there were no such scratches and that that was how the original Berettas came. Anyway, in a pinch and my long time quest for an Italian made Beretta, I gave in. I traded my unfired Kahr for the used Beretta and PAID an additional $100. Usually I would have at least tried to haggle but it was Christmas time and the owner's 8 or 10 year old daughter was sitting on the floor watching the transaction. I politely smiled and said, "oh well, I guess I had to pay some kind of rental fee." The owner smiled back even bigger and exclaimed that's right! Oh well, support your local gun merchants...They've gotta eat too.

PS. Welcom back from a newbie Bjames! Happy holidays.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:51:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HavocHound:
First, let me say that I oppose the corrupt elements of the business world every bit as much as I despise terrorist governments.

A gun dealer should be a shining beacon in a world of darkness - someone to trust. But then, I'm just being the silly idealist I am.

One time I bought a Dragunov-style SKS for $250. In my current opinion, an SKS should cost no more than $150. $200 would be quasi-acceptable if it was in premium condition and was tricked out with a heavy duty Zytel stock or some really exotic and durable wood. $250 might be understandable if it had a scope, a bayonet, and a sling.

Or maybe I'm just too demanding.

The prices on almost anything you find in a department store is a rip-off. Not that I'd even recommend buying guns from a department store in the fist place - unless all gun shops were one day destroyed by the State and we were left with no other choice.

Why do so many bolt-actions cost so much? Ruger 77s, Remington 700s, Brownings, and many others cost MORE than a brand new CETME! Explain to me why that is. They may be pretty but they're just bolt-actions! I can't fathom paying $700 or more for a bolt-action. This is discluding .50 cals, of course.

And why does the Steyr Scout Rifle cost so much? Just because it's a Steyr?! It costs as much as an AUG - and it's just a bolt-action that takes 5-round mags! Are people really willing to spend this kind of moulah on bolt-actions when they could get semi-autos with comparable or better handling capabilities for half as much or less?!

And why does a used Winchester 1887 or 1910 cost $400 to $600 in cruddy condition when a new Mossberg 500 costs $250?

Why do Henry rifles cost so much?

Give me ugly any day!!



what the hell does that mean? do you understand why a benz costs more than a dodge neon?
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 10:54:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2001 10:51:58 AM EDT by ArmaLiter]
A couple of times I probably could of gotten a better deal on a firearm that I bought. Sometimes I will pay a bit extra just for the convenience of buying it at a local dealer rather than searching for the same one someplace else, order it and have to wait and pay extra transfer fees. However, I never got ripped off. I always paid less than retail or paid a price that was competitive to what that firearm was going for elsewhere on the market.

ArmaLiter
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 3:37:13 PM EDT
bjames,

That isn't being ripped off. He assesed the values one way, you another. He didn't misrepresent or sell you a defective product. Just business.

Biggest ripoff? ASA in Scottsdale AZ. Sold me a rifle they COULD NOT make cycle after 9 trips back. Owner was a complete butthole, lied to me, and others regarding my behavior. In the end, he refused to refund my purchase OR make the rifle functional. Hey Bob of ASA - [-!-!-]

In fairness, I have cost him a lot more in lost business. And plan to continue. At this point more out of service to potential buyers to avoid getting stuck with a lemon.

james
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 3:43:44 PM EDT
I pretty much go one place for my firearms, with a select few exceptions. This prevents...well minimizes the problem you had.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:15:51 PM EDT
If you want it bad enough, no price is too high.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:57:41 PM EDT
Bjames--

I'm going to take the side of the Gun Dealer.


I just about got ripped off by a Dealer/Distributor in Prescott, AZ)
I wanted to trade a like new Bushmaster XM15A2 that I installed a Smith Brahe on. (the one with allen screws. I installed it right, and had to use a Dremmil tool th grind 4 indentations on the barrel.)
I wanted to trade it and some cash for Thompson 1918A (semi-auto) Tom gun with a drum and 2 mags. This fool offered me $500.00 for my Bushmaster (like new cond.)because of the brake, and would not go down a bit on the Thompson. He had it marked $950.00. I walked away



You took a $850 new rifle in to a dealer. He may pay about $700 for the same, and less if he is a distributor. You said it is like new--i.e. USED. Therefore, he may sell it for $700 and want to make $100 or $150 on it. Which means he would give you $600 or $550 for it. But then you said you had a Smith Brake on it, and you "installed it right, and had to use a Dremmil tool". Basically, you messed up a perfectly good gun. Unless your name is Graham, Huffman, Baer, Wilson, etc. and your business is recognized as a legitimate gunsmithing operation, you further detracted from the value of the gun. $500 was probably generous on his part. If you Dremel the gun, you may have done something else to the gun--like adjust headspace, trigger work, etc. that is not readily evident on a casual inspecion.

$950 is not out of line for the Thompson 1927 with a drum (10 rd.). It may be slightly high, but that depends on the market in your area.

The only thing you did right was to walk away if you weren't happy with the deal.

Don't feel too bad, I did the same thing once on one of my guns, and learned my lesson the same way. And, the 1927 Thompson is OK--I had one and never shot it--it was far too heavy for a semi-auto pistol caliber gun. In a full auto version, it would be fun, but for the same money, you would do better to look at an UZI.

Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:02:45 PM EDT
I've had a dealer sell me a "preban" AR15 that wasn't. I was smart enough to do a little detective work and tracked him down a state away. Did I mention I didn't even know his name and did a cash transaction? Guess I got lucky.

Also had a class 3 dealer try and trade me a Bushmaster some mags and ammo for a preban AK I had. I looked closely and noticed that it was basicly a kit gun on a Bushy lower.

I've learned you got to watch what your doing with these guys. There are way to many people out there with FFL's who are willing to make a buck, ethics be damned!

You however didn't get screwed over, I wouldn't cry to much. Just another gun dealer trying to get something for nothing. No big suprise there. It's when they start lying and putting you in a bad position when it starts getting ugly.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 7:03:38 PM EDT
the ahole that convinced me that USA brand mags were worth the 20 bux each he was charging :( oh well im alot wiser now
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:32:10 PM EDT
98% is always 95%
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