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Posted: 12/15/2001 11:04:36 PM EDT
Im looking to buy a good hd shotgun and figured id come here for advice. I have currently only looked at remington and a few mossberg's (sp?) but im sorta lost I have only fired a shotgun twice before when i was a kid. I don't know much at all about shotguns although im learning quickly as always. back to topic here is what im looking for

length: 38.5" or shorter.

mag capacity: 6 round or more.

action: pump.

gauge: 12 of course.

finnish: black or ss either is fine.

stock: black synthetic.

price: from low cost up to around $400 mayby a little higher depending on quality.

thanx
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 11:15:10 PM EDT
I would get a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500..they are both pump guns and can be equiped with folding stock or pistol grips if wanted.

A used Mossberg can be picked up for under $250 in the config. you are wanting....a Remington will prob. be a little higher (maybe)

They are both great firearms in my book and I have owned them both.

just my 2 cents

medcop
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 11:17:30 PM EDT
There are so many options...
You can buy a standard Rem 870 or Mossberg 500 or even a Winchester 1300, then buy pistol grips, fore grips, side saddles, mag extension, etc., to trick them out.
Your talking $200-$250 for the shotgun and about $100 in extras or so.
Or you can buy a Shotgun already configured to high cap like a police 870 or a Mossberg 590 (takes 8- 3" or 9- 2&3/4" shells) 12 gauge of course.
If you want to spend a little more money I would recommend an HK Fabarms or for around $800 you can buy a Benelli.
For right around $350-$400 you can get a Mossberg 590 and That would be my recommendation for a HD shotgun.


John
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 11:27:30 PM EDT
Mossberg 500 Persuader

12 gauge
pump action
20" barrel, pakerized
9-shot capacity
pistol grip ( makes for more compact home defense weapon )
synthetic forestock, black
heatshield

This is my choice...

all for about $200-250
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 1:28:13 PM EDT
I like the HK/Fabarm FP6 models a lot, very high quality for about $450 at Houston shows.

Fulton Armory has a FN shotgun that's worth a look too. Nicely Parkerized and the right features.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 2:05:03 PM EDT
What's the difference between the Remington 11-87 and the 1100? Which one is better?

I'd like to also get a 870 police and have the "Remington Steal" package done by Wilson Combat.

Anyone else here have a Wilson Combat Scattergun or parts from them on their home tricked out pump or semi auto shotties?
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 2:11:13 PM EDT
Get a Vang Comp Mossberg 590 A-1 for the money it's the best tactical shotgun on the market. If you buy from his website your looking around $600-$1000 depending what you want in options...I would check gunbroker or your local gunsmith and ask to see if they have any..Vang's website is www.vangcomp.com
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 3:17:20 PM EDT
Box stock Remmy 870 .. The folder looks cool, but they tend to be less than comfortable..

Meplat-
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 3:40:17 PM EDT
If you like pimp guns(SS), then the Mossberg 590 Marine would fit the bill.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 3:53:26 PM EDT
The aluminum receiver of the Mossberg, Winchester, and FN that Fulton sells makes them uncomfortable to shoot with buckshot and painful with slugs. I'd buy a Remington 870. If cash is tight look for a HD model just know that it means you can't put a sidesaddle on it due to the length of the forend. I'd try to find a used one that doesn't have the silly trigger lock that new models have. You can easily find a used police or HD model used online
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 4:31:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 5:02:41 PM EDT
I guess I'm going to go against the grain and suggest an Ithaca Model 37. The Model 37s made in Ithaca, New York (so marked on their barrels), have a "slam fire" capability; i.e., if the trigger is held back, the gun will fire each time the slide is cycled. Get a used Model 37 DSPS with the extended magazine. Best pump shotgun, without a doubt.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 5:44:47 PM EDT
I was going through the posts, and I was going to say Ithaca 37 Deer Slayer Police Special. I have an one, 18 inch barrel, "slam fire," etc. The only downfall is the fixed shell capacity. (4+1)
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 7:19:30 PM EDT
i paid $389 for an FN police shotgun only to find out its a $325 winchester Defender thats been stamped FN
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 7:29:04 PM EDT

The only downfall is the fixed shell capacity. (4+1)

Many of the DSPS 37s have an extended magazine and adding one is easy. This is a non-issue.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 7:47:22 PM EDT
I bought a Mossburg 590 with ghost ring sights and a speed feed stock for $400 after taxes.

Parkerized finish, eats everything that I feed it, including Federal Hydra-Shok 3 inch magnum slugs.

Not a whole lot of recoil, and the ghost ring sights make it easy to bring on target.

Av.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 7:55:47 PM EDT
Just bought a new Mossberg 590A1 law enforcement model with an 18.5" barrel (these are harder to find) that holds six in the mag + 1 in chamber. It has the parkerized finish on it. I love this gun! The one I bought has a bead sight on it, but I'll upgrade it to ghost or rifle sights soon. It was $300. It is a mil-spec gun. Check out www.mossberg.com for more info. There are a lot of models of the 590. The ones that come with a heat shield on them are not mil-spec (they have plastic trigger guards). These are just the 590, not the 590A1. Good luck in selecting a gun though. For your price range/specs, you will find most people recommending Remington 870/Mossberg/Winchester 1300, these seem to be the shotguns of choice around here for under $500. Good luck in your selection!
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 8:00:17 PM EDT
Oh, and my Mossberg has the aluminum receiver and I didnt find the recoil from 1 ounce slugs to be any worse than on any steel reciever gun I've shot. Might just be personal preference.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:15:18 AM EDT
Pick up an police trade in 870 for around 150-200 range.

Send it to Wilson/Scattergun for their Remington Steal package for add'l 190.

Then you'll have heck of a slide-action defense shotgun.

OR

You can consider a H&K Benelli M1 S90.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:23:06 AM EDT
Count this as another vote for the Mossberg...the 590 Mariner is a good choice for something that may sit around for a long time yet have to be called into place on very short notice. The "MarineKote" nickel finish and synthetic furniture make this a good choice for the money. I'd go for a tac-lite on it and, if you have neighbors nearby or other occupied bedrooms in the house, I'd use something less overpenetrating than slugs or OO buck. I always thought #4 shot was a good home defense round for a 12 ga.

Just my $.02
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 6:27:45 AM EDT
I have a Remington 870P, completely stock config except for an extended magazine. I was at the Saxet Gun Show this weekend, at the Bad Ass Shotguns table, and had a chnace to actually fondle all of the stuff I was thinking about loading mine down with. My conclusion is simple.

Save your money, and skip all the optionals except a tactical light with a momentary on/off switch, and an extended magazine. Everything else is gravy, and unnecessary. I was VERY unimpressed with the feel of the various folding stocks, and unless you live in your car or spend a lot of time in a trenchcoat, you don't really need it. Likewise, for extra ammo, just get a sleeve for the stock. The Choate Sidesaddles are a neat idea, but you really can spend the money elsewhere more effectively.

YMMV
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:12:29 AM EDT
WolfAR15,

My local gun shop (LGS) has a Remington 870 Vang comp with ghost ring Gunsite MMC's and a side saddle for $650.

It was purchased for a tactical SG class and used just that day.

If you want a good SG and are interested in this one I'll give you more details.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 9:29:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

The only downfall is the fixed shell capacity. (4+1)

Many of the DSPS 37s have an extended magazine and adding one is easy. This is a non-issue.



Explain please. I didn't think it were possible with the way the endcap attaches to the barrel.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 9:54:19 AM EDT
Most of the DSPS 37s had an extended magazine and a hanger located further towards the muzzle to accomodate the added length. If adding an extended magazine, this can be overcome in two ways: buy another barrel set up for this (easy, lots of them around) or have Ithaca or someone competent move the hanger forward and braze/silver solder it. A non-issue.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 10:16:28 AM EDT
Mossberg 500 Persuader

The cool thing about the "Persuader" package is that it comes with the full stock AND the pistol grip. You can change it out as desired. You can also get it with either a 5 or 8 shot tube (+1 chambered). Add a side saddle and a sling, and you can have a great HD gun for $250.

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 11:13:52 AM EDT
Mossberg 590 hands down
Rem 870 police mag second choice
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 12:54:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteveSatch:
If cash is tight look for a HD model just know that it means you can't put a sidesaddle on it due to the length of the forend.



The forend issue is very easily resolved with a hacksaw and a little filing/sanding time. You just need to cut off the rear extenstion of the forearm so that it does not interfere with the side saddle. I think it took me all of 5 minutes to do mine. Of course, not long after that I bought a Surefire forend and it does not have the extension. Another option would be to just buy a replacement forend - only a couple of bux.
I definately can recommend the Express HD. Try to find an older one though to avoid the PC trigger lock crap.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 3:25:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2001 3:19:26 PM EDT by Vinnie]

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
Most of the DSPS 37s had an extended magazine and a hanger located further towards the muzzle to accomodate the added length. If adding an extended magazine, this can be overcome in two ways: buy another barrel set up for this (easy, lots of them around) or have Ithaca or someone competent move the hanger forward and braze/silver solder it. A non-issue.



Thanks, Jim_Dandy. I'm going to look into that. I always loved my Ithaca, but was jelouse of my friend's Maverick because he could load 8 in the tube and one in the chamber.

You don't know if someone makes an over the top folding stock for the Ithaca do you? I've only see side folders (ala mini 30 style)
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 4:23:21 PM EDT
hey V,

I've seen the extended mag tubes for the M-37 on E-bay sometimes, although being uncreative, I think I'd just go ahead and buy another M-37 with the factory extension (apologies to JimD). :)

Oaks Gun Shop used to advertise the 8 shot police versions on Gunamerica.com. They were in Florida, and it might be possible to track them down. I haven't seen them post for a while though. They had a factory chrome for $550 that I was interested in. I bet it could have been had for less.



Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:08:34 PM EDT
i would choose the remington 870. i already own two and am about to buy another. i have talked to guys who used it in vietnam and said they liked it. i am going to order the synthetic stock , 18 inch barrel model myself for about 320$ . go look at the REMINGTON website.

GOOD LUCK
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:08:56 PM EDT

I've seen the extended mag tubes for the M-37 on E-bay sometimes, although being uncreative, I think I'd just go ahead and buy another M-37 with the factory extension (apologies to JimD). :)

No apology needed. As always, it's easier and often cheaper to buy a gun already set up rather than to modify it. However, I will say in this case, if the price is right, it's not too terribly hard. Everyone's going on and on about the Mossberg and Remington scatterguns, but something's always impressed me about those Ithacas and their slam fire capabilities. I think they're missing out here.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 5:28:32 PM EDT
might think about winchester 97 or a remake of it. so you can have a ex. hammer. allso the 97 can slamfire. slamfire just as fast as semiauto.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 6:32:35 AM EDT
Mossberg M-590.
Lots of mag capacity (four in the stock), heat shield, and I put glow-in-the-dark ghost ring sights and a shoulder strap on it. Nice parkerized finish. Wicked shotgun. Reasonable price too.

Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:42:46 PM EDT
I agree with USMC_LB... the Mossberg Persuader is my choice and I've seen it for under $200.

Link Posted: 12/20/2001 6:02:28 AM EDT
Mossberg 590.

I like Remington as a hunting gun, but once you you've short stroked an 870 and had it become completely inoperable, I just find it hard to recommend for personal defense.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:01:42 AM EDT
In no particular order, here are just a very slight few of my recommended boomsticks.

*Mossberg 590
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 8+1
-barrel: 20"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer

*Remington 870 Stainless Marine
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 6+1
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: matte stainless
-standard furniture: polymer

*Fabarm FP-6
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 5+1
-barrel: 20"
-finish: black oxide or phosphate
-standard furniture: polymer

*Winchester 1887
-action: lever
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 5+1
-barrel: 30" (intended to be sawed off to desired length)
-finish: blued
-standard furniture: wood

*HK/Benelli XM-1014
-action: semi-auto
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 7+1
-barrel: 20"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer

*USAS-12
-action: select-fire
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 10-rd. box mags or 20-rd. drums
-barrel: 20"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer

*Franchi SPAS-15
-action: pump or semi-auto
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 10-rd. box mags
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer forearm/metal stock
-standard accessories: side-folding metal stock

*Serbu Super-Shorty
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 2+1
-barrel: 7 1/2"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer pistol grip/folding knurled metal forearm grip

*Mossberg 590 Compact
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 5+1
-barrel: 14"
-finish: Parkerized or matte black
-standard furniture: polymer

*Mossberg 500 Cruiser
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 5+1
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: blued
-standard furniture: polymer

*Maverick 88
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 5+1
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer

*Armscor M30-R6
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 6+1
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: blued
-standard furniture: black painted wood

*Savage 69
-action: pump
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 4+1
-barrel: 18 1/2"
-finish: blued
-standard furniture: wood

*Remington SP-10 Magnum
-action: semi-auto
-gauge 10 (.77 caliber)
-capacity: 3+1
-barrel: 20"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: wood

*HK CAWS (Close Assault Weapon System)
-action: select fire
-gauge: 10
-capacity: 10-rd. box mags
-barrel: 20"
-finish: Parkerized
-standard furniture: polymer

*Pancor Jackhammer
-action: double-action
-gauge: 12
-capacity: 10-rd., cylinder-fed
-barrel: 20"
-finish: black oxide
-standard furniture: polymer shell

That's all I can think for now.

I don't recommend the Franchi SPAS-12, though the SPAS-15 is good. The SPAS-12 is just too heavy and too mechanically complex. The SPAS-15 makes up for it by taking detachable box mags.

And also, I have a question for all you Ithaca afictionados. Can you chamber-load an Ithaca (or any other bottom-ejector)? I shoot left-handed and I like having an ejection port on the right side of the receiver so I can chamber load with the greatest of ease. I was just wondering if this is possible with a bottom-ejector.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:33:43 AM EDT

And also, I have a question for all you Ithaca afictionados. Can you chamber-load an Ithaca (or any other bottom-ejector)? I shoot left-handed and I like having an ejection port on the right side of the receiver so I can chamber load with the greatest of ease. I was just wondering if this is possible with a bottom-ejector.

No. It's never been popular with trap shooters for this reason. I still think it's a far and away better choice than any of the Mossbergs and Remingtons mentioned, but people will spend their money as they wish (note what the NY State Troopers are carrying in the footage of the Attica State Prison riot of '71. Hint: it ain't no Mossberg).
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:42:24 AM EDT
Mossberg, Remington, Winchester. Any of those will do just fine.

However if I may make a suggestion. You may be better off with a Semi-Automatic 20 gauge shotgun.

Here is why. (1.) Semi-Automatic is better than pump action because when you are under a great deal of stress a person can frequently forget to cycle the action or can short cycle the action and jam the shotgun.
A Semi-Automatic Shotgun removes this danger.

(2.) 20 Gauge instead of a 12 Gauge, because shot from a 20 gauge is less likely to penetrate interior walls and doors. And a 20 Gauge is more controllable for the wife or girlfriend in case she is using the shotgun to defend herself and the family.

Additional Comments: There are many fine used shotguns out there, that you should take a look at. In particular the old Winchester Model 12 which has a "nice" feature of being able to fire quickly by keeping the trigger depressed and working the pump. Combined with a Cutts Compensator to reduce muzzle flip..it makes a fine weapon.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:43:28 AM EDT
You basically cant go wrong with any of the above mentioned. I personally like the Remington 870 Marine Magnum. You have an extended tube, ionized coated, and all the options you can find. For the bargain price of ~400.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 9:02:56 AM EDT

In particular the old Winchester Model 12 which has a "nice" feature of being able to fire quickly by keeping the trigger depressed and working the pump.

It's already been pointed out that the older pre-1987 Ithaca Model 37s are capable of this, too. They're cheaper and more plentiful than Winchester's over-hyped and over-rated Model 12 and make use of more stamped parts as opposed to the Model 12's machined forgings, thereby making them easier to maintain and a better choice.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 9:07:57 AM EDT
I would highly recommand three brand of scatterguns, Fraban imported by HK, Benelli Nova, and the old faithful Remington 870.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 9:23:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i paid $389 for an FN police shotgun only to find out its a $325 winchester Defender thats been stamped FN



I hate it when that happens!

Here in Houston it's easy to find a 1300 Defender for $240 on sale at Oshman's on a regular basis. A lot of bang for the buck.
I like the fast/smooth cycling of the rotating bolt. Aluminum receiver though.

www.usrac.com/prodinfo/catalog/md1300/m1300_defender8shot.htm

www.usrac.com/prodinfo/catalog/md1300/md1300.htm


The FN does have choke tubes & the receiver is drilled & tapped for a sight.

www.fultonarmory.com/Shotgun.htm
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 9:45:38 AM EDT
If you are willing to spend the money get a Benelli M1 or M3

www.benelliusa.com/our_products

These are Fast recoil operated semi's but have some recoil. Probably not any more than a pump though.
Benelli's new Nova Pump has gotten good reviews too.

Can't go wrong with Remington
www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870spshot.htm

www.remingtonle.com/shotgun/870psyn.htm

Mossberg
www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Specpurp.htm
www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Law.htm

or Winchester , as previously mentioned.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 6:09:44 AM EDT
I'd like to see more Striker-12 type shotguns, myself. I know the jackbooted ATF pigs declared the USAS-12 and the Streetsweeper to be "destructive devices." Hopefully, they didn't include the Striker-12 in that loose description. The USAS-12 and the Streetsweeper are full-auto or select-fire, whereas the Striker-12 is a 12-round double-action revolver shotgun - what I believe is an evolution of the 32-round Marrysville Prototype of the 1920s. Then there's also the Protecta Bulldog, which uses the same basic double-action design principle as the Striker except it's more compact (and the Striker is way compact to begin with).

On the subject of compacts, what's the government's guff with compact shotguns? There's nothing better for CQB - and that goes for civilians as well as cops and troops. Why are we expected to make do with Long Toms and other potential clunkers? 14" is the perfect length. 18 1/2 and 20-inchers are decent compared to Long Toms (which are completely inadequate for home defense and close combat) but they just don't compare to the ease of handling that a 14" (or shorter) barrel can give.

On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend going less than 10". The Protecta Bulldog might have a sub-10" barrel, but I'm not sure. The Wilson Witness Protection Miami Vice (AKA "MV") and the Serbu Super-Shorty have 7 1/2" barrels. They're great for concealed carry but I'd still recommend opting for between 10 and 14". There's a version of the Mossberg 500 Cruiser with a 10 1/2" barrel, heat shield (that covers the whole barrel), 3+1 round capacity, pistol grip, and one of the best features I've ever seen on a combat shotgun - a K-grip! That's right! The forearm grip is the same as on the HK MP-5K! I always thought that would make a great tactical forearm grip for a shotgun. Then I actually saw one and thought, "They read my mind!"
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