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Posted: 12/7/2001 11:02:13 AM EDT
I already own a Beretta 92FS and a Sig Sauer P-228 both in 9mm. Granted, the Beretta 92 is a service pistol and preban magazines are relatively cheap compared to Sig mags. But ergonomics on the Beretta and overall quality suck compared to my Sig P-228. Any thoughts on replacing my Beretta with a Sig Sauer P-226 or another P-228? I'm trying to make it so most of my firearms share similar basic traits and common types of ammunition as well.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:04:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:13:49 AM EDT
I have always preferred the 226 to the 228 for general use. If you dislike your Beretta so much the 226 seems like an obvious choice.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:16:54 AM EDT
KEEP THE BERETTA!! I have always liked the 92s over Sigs, just personal preference. I have used the 92s over the last few years, and have yet to find a reason to replace it.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:24:31 AM EDT
I know that the Navy SEALs and possibly the US Army Special Forces have used the Sig P-226 as a standard issue sidearm in the past. The P-228 is used by the Army for CID and possibly some counter-intell. or MP units. The Beretta seems like a good "service" weapon but if the P-226 is like my P-228 in quality......I just might have to make the switch. I know the Navy SEALS initially discarded the Beretta 92 because they were blowing up when used with suppressors - but I believe that was more of an ammo issue - in all fairness to Beretta.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:31:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:31:51 AM EDT
I vote for the SIG.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:32:47 AM EDT
Also, there is nothing wrong of keeping the 92FS and get the P226. Keep them all.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 11:47:07 AM EDT
I would keep the Beretta and buy a Sig Sauer P-226 but I'm trying, desperately, to slow down my chronic addiction to firearms. At age 22, I have 3 AR-15's (two preban), an AK-74 (semiauto), (2) FN-FAL's, Ruger 10-22, Sig Sauer SP-2340 in .357 SIG, Sig P-228, Beretta 92FS, with boo-coo magazines. Unfortunately, I plan on ETS-ing next year and going back to the part-time military where I will have to slow down my gun buying craze. If I end up getting my CCW when I ETS, I prefer to use handguns with like characteristics - even for home defense where no CCW would be required. Thats one of the main reasons I question keeping the Beretta. Its well-made but I'm becoming partial to Sig Sauer quality..... [:\]

Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:09:27 PM EDT


I know the Navy SEALS initially discarded the Beretta 92 because they were blowing up when used with suppressors - but I believe that was more of an ammo issue - in all fairness to Beretta.



I believe that the SEALs recently ordered several thousand Beretta 92 Combat models with the brigadier slide and cock/lock option
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:13:11 PM EDT
The United States Secret Service uses the SIG P229 in .357 Sig.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:19:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 12:13:54 PM EDT by freedom-fighter]
What's wrong with the ergonomics on the Beretta? The only real difference between the two is the decocker which is usually used after your done shooting. Is is the safety feature you don't like? Then get the Beretta Elite II. I sold my 226 and bought one. It's the perfect gun in my book. For the money I believe it's THE best deal out there.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 12:19:22 PM EDT by J_Smith]
Freedom-Fighter,

I haven't heard anything about the SEALs ordering newer Beretta models - possible - the initial problem was early 1980's and I beleive was resolved by consistently using subsonic ammunition with suppressors. Strange to me that they would go from the Sig-Sauer P-226 which I've seen pics from Desert Storm of to the Beretta. With their big black ops type budget, the newer Beretta model must be pretty good if this is true.

I'm not sure exactly what is it about the ergonomics of a Sig, the just feel more solid and better quality - tighter tolerances or some sh##. The exposed barrel on the Beretta 92FS annoys me as well....probably just personal preference....it will never be as bad as a Glock though ( woops, did I say that - sorry I hate tupperware......)

As I mentioned before I plan on eventually using my Sig P-228 as a potential carry gun - getting the Sig P-226 would allow me to shoot/train the same without dealing with different weapons features. Getting hicap magazines will suck though.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:28:52 PM EDT
Here's the info. From 5 to 9 October 1998, Todd Louis Green attended the Beretta "Factory Armorer Training Program". He also works there and I believe that he also took part in testing the new Vertec. This is the info he posted:

"At last count, somewhere on the order of half a million M9 handguns had been delivered to the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. According to Beretta, the US Navy SEALs just placed an order for 1,800 9mm Brigadiers, specially modified for cocked-and-locked carry (they also placed an order for a large number of 1201 shotguns)."
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:42:13 PM EDT



I'm not sure exactly what is it about the ergonomics of a Sig, the just feel more solid and better quality - tighter tolerances or some sh##. The exposed barrel on the Beretta 92FS annoys me as well....probably just personal preference....



One thing I didn't like about the SIG was the fact that the back part of the grip is plastic. It gives it a plastic gun feel. On occassions I can feel the grip flexing during recoil. Personally I like the solid feel of metal of the Beretta backstrap much better. I also like the "smooth as butter" action. As for the exposed barrel, it has tactical benefits and swaping different color barrels gives the gun a new look. I'm thinking of getting a black standard length threaded barrel and putting it in my Elite II. It should look pretty cool.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:45:26 PM EDT
Assuming that you've held, aimed, and shot both - can anyone honestly say that they liked the 92F better than the P226? If the 92 is so good, why all the modifications to make the Military buy it? I'm sold on the P226 - It is the BEST COMBAT sidearm in the world!
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:53:39 PM EDT
I own both the 92FS and P226, they're both great pistols, IMHO.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 12:54:57 PM EDT
My Beretta 92FS looks pretty cool being all stainless. This of course means less maintenance but also a tactical disadvantage. Most of the Beretta's I've worked with in the military function fine but are pretty beat-up - thats largely because of the way most military people treat weapons - not all..most. The Beretta also has the lanyard catch but I personally have no use for one. The safeties on both weapons are good - the overall difference is relative to me - the Beretta may be a little "safer" - but much of it I feel falls upon the operater's level of training on how safe the weapon is. Maybe its because I've been around military weapons too much that I'm more partial to Sig Sauer now. Again, I'm not saying the Beretta is a bad weapon..my preferces just lead me more to getting a Sig P-226 to compliment the P-228.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:02:37 PM EDT
Another vote for the 226!!! You're correct about it being standard issue to the Teams. Here they are issued to the SDVT1.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:04:32 PM EDT
I bought a P226 because I always wanted one. It's excellent and shoots like a target pistol.

But my sweetheart is my P220. After much experimentation, it is the pistol I prefer over anything I've used.

Just a thought in case you want to try something chambered for The Finest Combat Handgun Round Yet Devised. :)

Rich
NRA, GOA, LEAA, CCRN
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:13:40 PM EDT
Anyone familiar with the going rate on preban hicaps for the P-226? That's my only big hurdle if I make the switch. Selling/Trading the Beretta for a Sig Sauer P-226 is too easy - getting quality preban Sig Sauer mags might be more difficult.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:27:42 PM EDT
TO say that the P226 is the best sidearm in the world just because it is STANDARD issue to the "Teams" is a little of kilter.

What do the "non-standard" "teams" use? Well most whatever they want. You can put a Browning, good 1911, HK, Beretta, GLock, etc etc, against a SIG and be just as happy.

It depends on idividual taste. As for reliability I have a Beretta 92 that was bought in 92 with over 10,000 rounds through it. Many were Win Ranger 127gr +P+ rounds. NO PROBLEMS yet. Also have a HK USP with same amount of use again no problems. Also have a SIG P229 that only needs new grip screws every few months as the fall out or rust on me.

All are great pistols.

Just because the US Secret Service issues the 357 Sig P229 doesn't make it the only choice either. They were looking for penetration through auto glass.

Lots of decisions influence why differnt departments and agencies issue what they do.

You can get hi-caps for your Beretta pretty easily and resonably priced too. Keep it.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:33:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Anyone familiar with the going rate on preban hicaps for the P-226? That's my only big hurdle if I make the switch. Selling/Trading the Beretta for a Sig Sauer P-226 is too easy - getting quality preban Sig Sauer mags might be more difficult. [/quote}


Don't worry - the hi-cap mags for the P226 are just as cheap and maybe even more available. the going rate for factory SIG P226 15rnd hi-cap mags is around $60 from both CDNN and R-GUNS. I bought some from CDNN and IMHO they are a pleasure to do business with.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:34:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 2:33:34 PM EDT by guns762]
For me, it came down to availability of hi-cap mags, at reasonable prices. $100 a pop for a hi-cap mag is beyond my pocket book. I have had great luck with even Pro Mag hi-caps in my Beretta, for only 13.99 each! I don't know what the sig mags are going for right now, but if this ban stays in place, you can bet they will be somewhere close to that. I love my Beretta 92fs in Inox stainless. Shoots great, better than my abilities. I love the grips and the way it feels in my hands. My only complaint is that the safety is hard for my to get used to during rapid presentation, but that just takes practice. I'm very glad with my selection.

Edited to say that Pro Mags for the 226 are also only 13.99. Just looked it up.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:39:45 PM EDT
Factory hi-caps for the Sigs are expensive, but decent aftermarket ones are just as cheap as for any other brand of gun.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 1:44:38 PM EDT
Rabbit9,

Thanks for the info. I can pay $60 a mag for the right handgun.....think I'll look into it.

Mr.T,

I may try out the aftermarket types butI've always been skeptical of aftermarket magazines -especially from my experience with aftermarket preban rifle mags.

Jon
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 2:56:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2001 2:51:59 PM EDT by freedom-fighter]

Originally Posted By Hardwood:
Assuming that you've held, aimed, and shot both - can anyone honestly say that they liked the 92F better than the P226? If the 92 is so good, why all the modifications to make the Military buy it? I'm sold on the P226 - It is the BEST COMBAT sidearm in the world!



Huh? The military contract was given to Beretta before any modifications were made. The slide stop was added later and the military, except the SEALs, does not utilize the heavier brigadier slides. They like it just the way it is. The slide stop was added to all 92/96 as a precaution just in case someone regularly used very high pressure rounds such as proof loads.
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 5:30:39 PM EDT
I don't think a "perfect" military sidearm really exists - that would require an accurate handgun that is super reliable, has substantial killing power, well made, and is well-liked by all end users. If the design doesn't fit the operator then its not perfect. There are many excellent handguns of equal or similar quality - I, like so many others, am partial to certain types of firearms. Beretta vs. Sig Sauer could be an endless debate - I'm just becoming personally convinced through my experiences that Sig Sauer has the edge for many practical applications.

Thanks for all the input on the thread BTW
Link Posted: 12/7/2001 9:09:43 PM EDT
Beauty and the beast!

They both are fine, fine guns and will eat anything you feed them! Reasonably accurate and totally and utterly reliable!

The 226 is great and a 92FS is just as great, can't go wrong with either but Sig mags are expensive.
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